My swing and Hogan's plane

My swing and Hogan's plane

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 28th, 2008, 4:51 am #1

Today I hit balls at the range to try out standing taller to try to help my back out.
I found that I could do quite well using the one plane backswing that I have begun to groove in. Basically I am simply standing a lot taller and closer to the ball. I was surprised at how well I hit my driver and woods this way. It felt a bit odd to stand up so straight but I did not have any problem adjusting my swing. LOL, I did try a few 2 plane swings and those did not turn out so good. I will adjust my irons a few degrees upright and see how it goes. Hogan advises standing very tall in 'Five Lessons' and he tended to swing back with lead arm even with his shoulders at the top of the backswing so I guess that it should work ok for me to do the same...

I think that there are a couple of flaws in Hogan's plane of glass theory. One is that the shoulder cannot brush the glass on the backswing. As tall as Hogan stood the front shoulder would have to break the glass on the backswing. The other is the drawing of a tall golfer's plane vs. a short golfer's plane. The short golfer becomes a tall golfer when swinging a short club. I don't think that the plane changed that much in Hogan's case. I don't think that the drawing is accurate in that respect???

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 28th, 2008, 11:57 am #2

over the ball is 32-40 deg (depending on your measuring points) angle to vertical.

Peter
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Joined: September 22nd, 2006, 11:35 am

August 28th, 2008, 2:42 pm #3

Today I hit balls at the range to try out standing taller to try to help my back out.
I found that I could do quite well using the one plane backswing that I have begun to groove in. Basically I am simply standing a lot taller and closer to the ball. I was surprised at how well I hit my driver and woods this way. It felt a bit odd to stand up so straight but I did not have any problem adjusting my swing. LOL, I did try a few 2 plane swings and those did not turn out so good. I will adjust my irons a few degrees upright and see how it goes. Hogan advises standing very tall in 'Five Lessons' and he tended to swing back with lead arm even with his shoulders at the top of the backswing so I guess that it should work ok for me to do the same...

I think that there are a couple of flaws in Hogan's plane of glass theory. One is that the shoulder cannot brush the glass on the backswing. As tall as Hogan stood the front shoulder would have to break the glass on the backswing. The other is the drawing of a tall golfer's plane vs. a short golfer's plane. The short golfer becomes a tall golfer when swinging a short club. I don't think that the plane changed that much in Hogan's case. I don't think that the drawing is accurate in that respect???

Regards, Herbert
Over on the site where they promote single axis swinging (like an org site), Ken Martin, (I think) has a video demonstrating the body accommodations one has to make in order to get the bent hind leg to the ball, and I found the clip facinating, especially, the one of Jim Furyk, who stands so close to his shots and he makes a HUGE body accommodation at impact to get the right elbow in the proper position at impact.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 29th, 2008, 2:11 am #4

over the ball is 32-40 deg (depending on your measuring points) angle to vertical.

Peter
I was looking at the illustrations in the book for instance page 53.

It looks like it depends on what part of the spine you want to measure.



Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 29th, 2008, 2:13 am #5

Over on the site where they promote single axis swinging (like an org site), Ken Martin, (I think) has a video demonstrating the body accommodations one has to make in order to get the bent hind leg to the ball, and I found the clip facinating, especially, the one of Jim Furyk, who stands so close to his shots and he makes a HUGE body accommodation at impact to get the right elbow in the proper position at impact.
The move closer to the ball and standing up more did not seem to make much difference while hitting balls but I notice my trail elbow running into my side when doing the Swing Pipe drills.

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 29th, 2008, 3:24 am #6

over the ball is 32-40 deg (depending on your measuring points) angle to vertical.

Peter
Looks like about 22 to 30ish depending on how you draw the line here...


Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 29th, 2008, 3:42 am #7

Tiger's back is straighter making it easier to see the spine angle.



Maybe Hogan's posture is better? It is easier on the lower back to have less weight hanging out in space I think.

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: April 22nd, 2004, 9:58 pm

August 29th, 2008, 7:08 am #8

says it's 20 degrees for Hogan.

I think he measures right up the lower back and leaves out the shoulder roll.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 29th, 2008, 1:56 pm #9

I was looking at the illustrations in the book for instance page 53.

It looks like it depends on what part of the spine you want to measure.



Regards, Herbert
is intended to show the 'sitting' position. It does not purport to represent Hogan at address in a real shot. In a clip I have of Hogan hitting driver on a real shot he is not as upright at address as shown in that diagram. His angle of forward lean is apx 33 deg (measured from the base of the spine to the upper end of the spine at the base of the neck).

As to a change in spine angle you need to pick identical points for the measurement in the two positions. I would not use any one of the 3 lines in your photo as none of them represent an axis of rotation possible for the body as shown.

Peter
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 29th, 2008, 2:08 pm #10

Looks like about 22 to 30ish depending on how you draw the line here...


Regards, Herbert
The bottom of the spine is towards the back of the pelvis not the center as your lines would indicate. The top of the spine is accurately (for this exercise) shown by your yellow line but not the red. Rotating the torso on either of your lines would not result in a rotation around a spinal axis.

Peter
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