# MGS Stats - Any math guys out there? ( very weak here)

Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm
I know Tom and some others are wondering what type of yardages and such MGS produces. In Saturdays match, my 9 iron was 130ish, and 8 iron was about 145. I was playing my steel shafted Rifle flighted 5.5 golfsmith blades.

So tonight I hit some more balls, and after practicing the MGS swing, decided to hit 20 shots all with my 8 iron, all on clearkey, as I would if in a match. I had my Medicus swing speed meter on, and it records each swing and then every five swings it reports the average. So I only had to write down five numbers and then average those. The average swing speed was 85.7 mph. Looking at Trackman data that seems to correlate about right for my yardages I had on Saturday.

After I hit all twenty balls, I walked out to the group and paced off the # of feet left and right from the furthest ball each side of the flag. Of the twenty birdie balls, only two were outside the distance of four steps left or right. ( my normal step is about 26" ) So that is +/- 10 feet left or right.

So here is the math question, my birdie ball is flying 40 yards for this 8 iron, which is about 27% of the distance the golf ball flies. Would the same % apply to the dispersion left or right, about 1/3 third? Could I just multiply the +/- dispersion of 10 feet and know that for my 8 iron I am going to be no more than 30 feet left or right of my target? Or does it not correlate linearly?

At any rate there is some yardages for you Tom and others.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am
I doubt if anyone knows how the birdie balls behave directionally as compared to a real ball. If they behave about like real balls, then some math could be applied.

Your Medicus swing speed meter seems pretty optimistic. Your distances suggest swing speeds with those two clubs of more like 75 MPH give or take. The rule of thumb is that 5 iron swing speed x 2.2 = carry distance. (Driver factor is 2.4.) An 80 MPH 5-iron carries 176 plus any roll. Each iron shorter loses about 1 MPH of head speed. These are rules of thumb given "normal" lofts and such.

I ran your specific examples through a well-regarded trajectory stats program and it also showed about 75 MPH. An 80 MPH 5 iron is a very good speed for a recreational golfer.

Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm
I know Tom and some others are wondering what type of yardages and such MGS produces. In Saturdays match, my 9 iron was 130ish, and 8 iron was about 145. I was playing my steel shafted Rifle flighted 5.5 golfsmith blades.

So tonight I hit some more balls, and after practicing the MGS swing, decided to hit 20 shots all with my 8 iron, all on clearkey, as I would if in a match. I had my Medicus swing speed meter on, and it records each swing and then every five swings it reports the average. So I only had to write down five numbers and then average those. The average swing speed was 85.7 mph. Looking at Trackman data that seems to correlate about right for my yardages I had on Saturday.

After I hit all twenty balls, I walked out to the group and paced off the # of feet left and right from the furthest ball each side of the flag. Of the twenty birdie balls, only two were outside the distance of four steps left or right. ( my normal step is about 26" ) So that is +/- 10 feet left or right.

So here is the math question, my birdie ball is flying 40 yards for this 8 iron, which is about 27% of the distance the golf ball flies. Would the same % apply to the dispersion left or right, about 1/3 third? Could I just multiply the +/- dispersion of 10 feet and know that for my 8 iron I am going to be no more than 30 feet left or right of my target? Or does it not correlate linearly?

At any rate there is some yardages for you Tom and others.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Kevin, I don't think so because you have to consider that errors involve more than just percentages. Under ideal conditions you might be close but wind and other factors will affect this. Of course we can't predict how the wind is going to affect things unless we know the direction and velocity and even then it would have to be constant which it rarely is. But the biggest reason I think you can't rely on the percentages is that a golf ball and a birdie ball, or whiffle ball for that matter, have major differences and although advertising might claim they behave like a golf ball I don't really buy it. The shape, probably the weight, and the aerodynamics are different. If I were you I would only rely on golf balls I hit under realistic conditions such as those that you played your match in. Sorry I made this longer than it probably needed to be. A real golf club on a real golf course with a real golf ball. There, that is probably all I should have said, lol.

Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm
I doubt if anyone knows how the birdie balls behave directionally as compared to a real ball. If they behave about like real balls, then some math could be applied.

Your Medicus swing speed meter seems pretty optimistic. Your distances suggest swing speeds with those two clubs of more like 75 MPH give or take. The rule of thumb is that 5 iron swing speed x 2.2 = carry distance. (Driver factor is 2.4.) An 80 MPH 5-iron carries 176 plus any roll. Each iron shorter loses about 1 MPH of head speed. These are rules of thumb given "normal" lofts and such.

I ran your specific examples through a well-regarded trajectory stats program and it also showed about 75 MPH. An 80 MPH 5 iron is a very good speed for a recreational golfer.
by PGA to exhibit true ball flight characteristics and feel at impact. There is no comparison to like a whiffle or foamy. Their literature says about 40 yards for a 6 iron. Point is I know how far my 8 iron flies with both birdie balls and golf balls, so we can do the math that way for sure. Whatever the case my dispersion is much better than before, and I was just looking for some way to correlate it to real shots as the season is about over and the only shots I will be hitting will be these lovely little birdie balls.

Regarding club head speed, I have always felt consumer purchased meters are more "generous" than pro monitors ( ego boost factor ), so I think you are spot on there. I have always just used them to gauge any improvement relative to swing changes etc.

The thing I wanted to relate was that my distances with MGS are close to the same as with my older swing, which is what Tom was asking Kiran about.

kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am
I should ask for some for Christmas. I have the nice grass area to hit short and even mid irons, but looking for the balls in 3-5" grass is a royal pain.

Joined: December 2nd, 2002, 7:44 pm
I know Tom and some others are wondering what type of yardages and such MGS produces. In Saturdays match, my 9 iron was 130ish, and 8 iron was about 145. I was playing my steel shafted Rifle flighted 5.5 golfsmith blades.

So tonight I hit some more balls, and after practicing the MGS swing, decided to hit 20 shots all with my 8 iron, all on clearkey, as I would if in a match. I had my Medicus swing speed meter on, and it records each swing and then every five swings it reports the average. So I only had to write down five numbers and then average those. The average swing speed was 85.7 mph. Looking at Trackman data that seems to correlate about right for my yardages I had on Saturday.

After I hit all twenty balls, I walked out to the group and paced off the # of feet left and right from the furthest ball each side of the flag. Of the twenty birdie balls, only two were outside the distance of four steps left or right. ( my normal step is about 26" ) So that is +/- 10 feet left or right.

So here is the math question, my birdie ball is flying 40 yards for this 8 iron, which is about 27% of the distance the golf ball flies. Would the same % apply to the dispersion left or right, about 1/3 third? Could I just multiply the +/- dispersion of 10 feet and know that for my 8 iron I am going to be no more than 30 feet left or right of my target? Or does it not correlate linearly?

At any rate there is some yardages for you Tom and others.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
I struggled the first time or so on the range. Since I have been getting very good distances. 9 iron 140--150, 8 iron 150-160
7 iron. 160--175+ In fact on a long par 3 last week up to the green it was 178 yards, I hit a 7 iron and went straight past the pin to the back size of the green. I would have been pin high with an 8 iron.
So I really believe with MGS you do not loose any distance.

Buy the way even though I am a high handicapper but I have always been a long hitter . I have an awful short game and a lot of times had problems keeping it in play . I have been more accurate with MGS

Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am
I know Tom and some others are wondering what type of yardages and such MGS produces. In Saturdays match, my 9 iron was 130ish, and 8 iron was about 145. I was playing my steel shafted Rifle flighted 5.5 golfsmith blades.

So tonight I hit some more balls, and after practicing the MGS swing, decided to hit 20 shots all with my 8 iron, all on clearkey, as I would if in a match. I had my Medicus swing speed meter on, and it records each swing and then every five swings it reports the average. So I only had to write down five numbers and then average those. The average swing speed was 85.7 mph. Looking at Trackman data that seems to correlate about right for my yardages I had on Saturday.

After I hit all twenty balls, I walked out to the group and paced off the # of feet left and right from the furthest ball each side of the flag. Of the twenty birdie balls, only two were outside the distance of four steps left or right. ( my normal step is about 26" ) So that is +/- 10 feet left or right.

So here is the math question, my birdie ball is flying 40 yards for this 8 iron, which is about 27% of the distance the golf ball flies. Would the same % apply to the dispersion left or right, about 1/3 third? Could I just multiply the +/- dispersion of 10 feet and know that for my 8 iron I am going to be no more than 30 feet left or right of my target? Or does it not correlate linearly?

At any rate there is some yardages for you Tom and others.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
was about 5% less with MGS on the first try yesterday, but I think I turned more then advised, and cocked the wrist too much. The ball contact felt very good, and the balls flew very nicely.

No break between lessons today, so maybe I can try again on Thursday.

Ham

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am
I know Tom and some others are wondering what type of yardages and such MGS produces. In Saturdays match, my 9 iron was 130ish, and 8 iron was about 145. I was playing my steel shafted Rifle flighted 5.5 golfsmith blades.

So tonight I hit some more balls, and after practicing the MGS swing, decided to hit 20 shots all with my 8 iron, all on clearkey, as I would if in a match. I had my Medicus swing speed meter on, and it records each swing and then every five swings it reports the average. So I only had to write down five numbers and then average those. The average swing speed was 85.7 mph. Looking at Trackman data that seems to correlate about right for my yardages I had on Saturday.

After I hit all twenty balls, I walked out to the group and paced off the # of feet left and right from the furthest ball each side of the flag. Of the twenty birdie balls, only two were outside the distance of four steps left or right. ( my normal step is about 26" ) So that is +/- 10 feet left or right.

So here is the math question, my birdie ball is flying 40 yards for this 8 iron, which is about 27% of the distance the golf ball flies. Would the same % apply to the dispersion left or right, about 1/3 third? Could I just multiply the +/- dispersion of 10 feet and know that for my 8 iron I am going to be no more than 30 feet left or right of my target? Or does it not correlate linearly?

At any rate there is some yardages for you Tom and others.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Though the Birdie Balls accurately represent ball flight the relationship is not necessarily linear between distance and dispersion. That would require testing and I've not seen Birdie Ball make a statement to that effect.

With regard to 'MGS' stats - What do you think those stats would be with your pre-Bertholy swing vs your current swing?

Peter

Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm
Pre-Bertholy, when I first started practicing to get better, I kept a journal, after reading the Lil Red Book suggested it. I found that journal several years ago when I was moving and laughed as I read one of the entries, which went something like this:

"Really hit the ball well today...nice crisp contact...7 iron - 125!" And I was really excited about it! So the improvement after Bertholy goes without saying. It was huge.

I would say this new swing distance is about the same, but the accuracy is way better, even just comparing the groupings on all my birdie ball sessions through out the year. GIR before MGS was less than 50% - Saturday on our approaches I hit all but 4 greens.

I have thought alot about this too - which is what I think you are getting at - How much of the success I am now having is because of all the work I put in with Bertholy, and I can adapt to any thing because the "foundation and basic structure of the house" doesn't change, just the "decorating". My Bertholy installed habits are like the operating system, and MGS is like another version or software program, just a different vendor.

So with that in mind, what is different from old to new?

-Accuracy is way better
-Less pounding on the body. As I mentioned I have no knee pain at all with this type of action. No back pain at all. My old swing my lead knee took a pounding.
-Virtually slice proof. Very few shots have any hint of right to left.
-Easier to repeat, this makes sense, it is a very simple motion.
-Distance control on wedges is much improved. i haven't had much chance to hit many full shots with real balls, but I have hit several shag bags of wedges, and it is much easier to hit the yardage on demand. I suspect this will be the case judging from the readings on my swing speed meter, there is usually less than .5 mph change from swing to swing. Only time will tell on full shots.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am
The point I was getting to is that without the basic fundamental of good impact that you got from Bertholy it's unlikely that you'd have it now after a few weeks of MGS and you can't actually perform the test for MGS's ability to develop it in someone that doesn't have it.

Beyond that the MGS instruction has you not complete 'keystone' so following its direction as presented represents a fundamental change of Bertholy's methodology.

As to 'software program' - when the fundamentals are there you have the ability to adopt many methodologies more effectively. The results you report for MGS - no back pain, no lead knee (or hip) pain, no slicing (or hooking), easy to repeat - are the same that I found for IMA and others have reported with some other systems (Blake comes to mind).

Peter