I bummed 25 bucks and ordered Doug's book - in the

I bummed 25 bucks and ordered Doug's book - in the

Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

August 19th, 2008, 4:03 am #1

photo of Paul's swing, it looks like he has a flat swing

IS that part of the Bertholy method?
What does everyone else think?
Hope it's OK to use photo.

JC
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 19th, 2008, 9:30 pm #2

The vertical drop of 'Keystone' in the Bertholy method produces a shallower downswing vs backswing plane. Whether that is 'flat' or not depends a number of things. If you are successful in dropping keystone so far down that your trail elbow is at your trail hip prior to much shoulder rotation as it is with Sergio then you will have what most would consider a flat swing even if your lead arm started well above your trail shoulder (normally an indication of a steep swing).

The photo you posted of Bertholy seems to show him after the vertical drop of 'Keystone'.

Peter
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 28th, 2003, 12:59 pm

August 20th, 2008, 1:38 am #3

did not have a flat backswing. If you look at his left knee you will see the buckle (ala Sam Snead } that precedes the verticle drop of the keystone. So we are looking at the verticle drop not a flat backseing.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

August 20th, 2008, 4:48 am #4

CAN you explain a little more about the photo? IT'S GONE! When i saw it i said
IS that the top of Paul's back swing or is it in to his down swing.
or anywhere of many other possible places.
I really wasn't sure- his leg positions look like he hasn't started the down swing yet. But i don't know, i bought the book so then
maybe i can find out.

JC
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

August 20th, 2008, 4:50 am #5

did not have a flat backswing. If you look at his left knee you will see the buckle (ala Sam Snead } that precedes the verticle drop of the keystone. So we are looking at the verticle drop not a flat backseing.
NT
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 20th, 2008, 5:55 am #6

The vertical drop of 'Keystone' in the Bertholy method produces a shallower downswing vs backswing plane. Whether that is 'flat' or not depends a number of things. If you are successful in dropping keystone so far down that your trail elbow is at your trail hip prior to much shoulder rotation as it is with Sergio then you will have what most would consider a flat swing even if your lead arm started well above your trail shoulder (normally an indication of a steep swing).

The photo you posted of Bertholy seems to show him after the vertical drop of 'Keystone'.

Peter
In theory there is no verticle drop in a single plane swing making single plane an easier way to play the game.

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

August 20th, 2008, 1:35 pm #7

Moe Norman had one. He said it was his first feeling in the downswing. Also, after I got Doug's book I found out where a lot of the things Moe used to like to say came from. They were straight from Paul Bertholy.
Jerry
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 20th, 2008, 8:23 pm #8

I have watched a lot of video of Moe and I don't really see the vertical drop. It looks to me like he moved up onto the downswing plane at the top of backswing and then just swung through on plane... Maybe someone can post some video detailing the drop so that I can be convinced. Hmmm, it could be that my understanding of vertical drop is incorrect.

My understanding of single plane theory is that such a drop is not required because the club is already pretty much on plane at the top of backswing. All you have to do is crank the body thru and let the arms lag and then whip thru. To me it sometimes feels kind of like the arms compress against the shoulders and then sort of bounce off to release thru the ball... To me it is a really simple way to swing with no compensation moves as required by a two plane swing.

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 21st, 2008, 12:57 pm #9

needed a vertical drop. Older Moe didn't because his hands never got high enough.

Peter
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

August 21st, 2008, 2:27 pm #10

If vertical drop is a seperate movement of the arms to drop the club down on plane then I don't believe that Hogan had such a drop. He did shift plane slightly but that was a result of a change in spine angle. Opinions?

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share