Hold it!

Hold it!

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

January 2nd, 2010, 2:53 pm #1

Paul Bertholy said that a golfer should hold the finish position until the ball lands. I have found this to be good advice as it is easy to tell when I am off balance during the swing as my finish position will not be correct and sometimes I might even have to take a step to keep from falling over!

Anyway I think that if a golfer is going to use swing thoughts this is a good one as it is less likely to do harm then most and might even do some good.

What do you think?

Regards, Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on January 2nd, 2010, 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

January 2nd, 2010, 7:45 pm #2

will allow you to finish perfectly balanced, where you can hold this position for as long as you like. But is is not a transitive property. Holding your finish won't magically give you PSM (Proper Sequential Motion.) While it may help with PT (Proper Tempo) you need both PSM and PT for a fine golf swing. I think that this is one of the common fallacies of modern instruction; that PT will magically give you PSM. BTW, you shouldn't have any swing thoughts. It's like saying "if you're going to commit suicide, using a gun is a good method."
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

January 3rd, 2010, 8:04 am #3

A lot of or actually most every great player that I know of used swing thoughts. Nicklaus had a ton of em and he did okay. For you to say that swing thoughts are like committing suicide is a bit of a stretch I think...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

January 3rd, 2010, 7:27 pm #4

golf quips was from Tommy Smothers who claimed that he was going to write a book called: "The 20 Most Important Swing Thoughts at the Moment of Impact."
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

January 3rd, 2010, 8:02 pm #5

A lot of or actually most every great player that I know of used swing thoughts. Nicklaus had a ton of em and he did okay. For you to say that swing thoughts are like committing suicide is a bit of a stretch I think...

Regards, Herbert
"Extraordinary motor skills required for expert athletic or music performance require longstanding and intensive practice leading to two critical skills, a level of maximal performance that far exceeds that of non-experts and a degree of privileged focus on motor performance that excludes intrusions. This study of motor planning in expert golfers demonstrated their brain activation during their pre-shot routine to be radically different than in novices. The posterior cingulate, the amygdalaforebrain complex, and the basal ganglia were active only in novices, whereas experts had activation primarily in the superior parietal lobule, the dorsal lateral premotor area, and the occipital area. The fact that these differences are apparent before the golfer swings the club suggests that the disparity between the quality of the performance of novice and expert golfers lies at the level of the organization of neural networks during motor planning. In particular, we suggest that extensive practice over a long period of time leads experts to develop a focused and efficient organization of task-related neural networks, whereas novices have difficulty filtering out irrelevant information."

Or just say swing thoughts are more hurtful to the novice....less so than to the expert because of experts superior...ahem... "motor planning" (PPC!)....NOTICE THIS IS ABOUT PRE-SHOT ROUTINE.

The above is the abstract for an article - "The mind of expert motor performance is cool and focused"

Interesting one of the titles in the results section - "Experts have reduced overall brain activation" (compared to that of novices)

Falls right in line with Bertholy who says that one or two swing keys are needed ONCE THE SWING IS BUILT. Clearkey ( and my book ) take it a step further by saying that swing keys are useful only for pre-shot planning and that once planning is done, execution is turned over to the subconscious which carries out the execution calling on habits that are stored in an area of our system beyond the realm of conscious direction.

What Allen refers to as being harmful is the way golfers have an expectation that they can continue to direct and control the swing through the use of conscious suggestion and active memory recall of certain swing thoughts or cues. In my book I describe the very absolute necessity of using precise direction in pre-shot to program our system before releasing control to the sub-conscious. It's like there is a playlist on your media player, you select the song, it is loaded, and once you hit the play button it plays automatically. Anymore conscious involvement on my part with the controls of the [player once it starts playing the song will disrupt the way the song plays. This is the harmful result of having swing thoughts during the execution phase of the swing.

Of course,if you have a bad playlist, composed of bad songs, it doesn't matter, the result wont be good. That's why you need my book or Bertholy.

The inter-relationship of the physical and mental activities a golfer needs to build a sound swing and game is the whole reason I began posting again after being mostly absent for the better part of several years (in response to one of your posts too!). This subject is also at the core of what my book is about, and the golfer that applies the principles found within it will indeed discover a new dimension previously unknown to his/her experience.





Last edited by mcirishman57 on January 4th, 2010, 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

January 4th, 2010, 4:37 am #6

Here are another guys ideas on the same subject:
http://www.peakperformancegolfswing.com/swing-the-feel/

Regards, Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on January 4th, 2010, 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

January 4th, 2010, 1:21 pm #7

He makes some good points, especially about personality types, but never gets down to process. He writes in a very general and vague manner about what is actually needed and how to acquire things and go about it.

This style leaves the reader saying to himself - "Sounds good, I want more...." which is his intent I guess...

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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

January 4th, 2010, 11:15 pm #8

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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

January 5th, 2010, 3:21 am #9

was close but no cigar, but now he is moving further away from the ideal:

"To swing a club you have to have thoughts, as swinging a club is not an automatic system built into the body as is breathing and balance. The movement has to be triggered by the mind sending the impulses to the muscles to produce movement.

Regarding these thoughts, many players, from the PGA Tour to local amateurs, will tell you they play with one or two thoughts for every shot, every round"

DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON! ( yeah, Im' THAT old ) High profile golf instructor handing out bad advice, avoid at all costs.

The advice in that little post is so far off base I quit reading when I read this:

"Right now I am playing with two swing thoughts. The backswing one is that I am focusing on my right (back) hip turning to start the backswing as I had reached the point where it was not even moving. Coupled with the turn is I want to feel the right knee and leg receive the weight. This tells me I have turned the hips and the weight is definitely over and onto my right leg, ready to push off in the transition. My second thought is basically always the sameSwing up to my T = Finish and be in perfect balance. More than anything I always lock in the finish feeling. For me getting to a perfectly balanced T Finish is always priority #1."

Wow really, he really does this?


Sounds really good though, makes lots of sense, and I'm sure helps ring the cash register a ton.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

January 5th, 2010, 6:26 pm #10

The advice is off base in your opinion. You cannot deny that it works for Don Trahan as he plays the game at a very high level.

Maybe Trahan's approach is better for some folks and your approach is better for others...

Regards, Herbert
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