Golden Exercise

Golden Exercise

Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

March 8th, 2010, 1:55 pm #1

Doug, I'm posting a new thread as you've requested so that you can give us some insight into the Golden Exercise. IMHO, GSC 101 does not place enough emphasis on the importance of program 3c as it relates to training you to get an impact position with the hands in front of the ball ... and leaves you with a post impact position as photographed on page 140 of the book such as this:



As I was doing some 3c work this weekend, in front of a mirror, I noticed that while I could hit the pine cone without hitting the half buried ball, my tendency was to release my hands in a flippy kind of motion which did not allow me to achieve the position on page 140 and above (instead my left wrist would break down and my right wrist would flex forward.) As I played around with this, I noticed that one must continue to move the shoulders through impact to prevent this from happening, but mine were coming almost to a complete stop.

I think that there are several ways to accomplish this. Bertholy would have you tug with the lead arm through impact. Kevin would have you drive your shoulders down through impact. Others would have you drive your hips (taking the shoulders with them) through impact. I'm not sure that any of these are better than the other, but some body motion must occur through impact, otherwise you have to release early and fully straighten your trail arm and hands (wrists) to reach the ball.
Last edited by allenws on March 8th, 2010, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

March 8th, 2010, 8:45 pm #2

make the Vital Move / Master Move whole retaining everything back and in place on the upper body...shoulders, arms and club. The Vital / Master move will cause the hips to move the way they need to.

When the arm assembly begins to be transported down by the trail elbow pointing to the navel, finally returning to in front of the trail hip, there are only a couple of ways you can advance the hands through the impact zone.

One ways is what I have begun to call "amrsing it". You can tell a player who arms it from this point:


by observing their hips, shoulders,and head, and note the relation of their lead arm to their torso. The position of the hips, the tilt of the shoulders, and the head remain fairly constant as the club approaches the impact zone. Most importantly, the trail arm will have to straighten in order for them to hit the ball.

The second way is to advance the club through the zone by keeping the arms package intact, maintaining the angles, and advancing them by using your hips first and then eventually your shoulders, the club eventually releases on its own. So I would say it is a combination of hips then shoulders. Spend a little bit of time in front of mirror swinging in slow motion and you can very easily discover just how your arms need to move in order to "arms it", and how your body must move in order to hit the ball without "swinging" your arms. Compare these two demo swings and note the differences mentioned above:

Compare the two noting the differences mentioned above:




Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

March 8th, 2010, 9:49 pm #3

example of what I'm talking about. Below are some clips from a 3c I took last summer:



Note how far my hands are ahead of the ball (white tee) pre-impact. But then hips, shoulders, arms all completely stop as I straighten my trail arm/hand (flip release) to hit the ball. In the middle post impact photo, my lead hand should be several inches in front of my lead leg and there should still be a little trail arm/hand bend. Instead, my hands haven't moved from their pre-impact position as everything straightens out. This flippyness really becomes apparent in the third photo. This is causing low left hooks and loss of power as I release early, despite the great retention of angles earlier in the swing.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

March 8th, 2010, 10:42 pm #4

Allen,

Here are some random thoughts:

If you are good at impact what difference does it make if you 'flip' your hands after impact?

The model as I understand it is that the body parts slow down in order from lower body out to the hands in order to efficiently transfer energy to the clubhead so would not your action of stopping the hips, shoulders and hands be an indication of great efficiency?

You have a lot of leg drive with your lead knee well past your lead foot which I think can be a result of doing the golden exercise. I guess you have probably changed that position in your current swing?

Your trail shoulder looks pretty low at impact and your shoulders look to be a little open?

Your lead hand grip looks to be fairly strong? Or is does it meet Scott's guidelines and I am not seeing it correctly?

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

March 8th, 2010, 10:49 pm #5

make the Vital Move / Master Move whole retaining everything back and in place on the upper body...shoulders, arms and club. The Vital / Master move will cause the hips to move the way they need to.

When the arm assembly begins to be transported down by the trail elbow pointing to the navel, finally returning to in front of the trail hip, there are only a couple of ways you can advance the hands through the impact zone.

One ways is what I have begun to call "amrsing it". You can tell a player who arms it from this point:


by observing their hips, shoulders,and head, and note the relation of their lead arm to their torso. The position of the hips, the tilt of the shoulders, and the head remain fairly constant as the club approaches the impact zone. Most importantly, the trail arm will have to straighten in order for them to hit the ball.

The second way is to advance the club through the zone by keeping the arms package intact, maintaining the angles, and advancing them by using your hips first and then eventually your shoulders, the club eventually releases on its own. So I would say it is a combination of hips then shoulders. Spend a little bit of time in front of mirror swinging in slow motion and you can very easily discover just how your arms need to move in order to "arms it", and how your body must move in order to hit the ball without "swinging" your arms. Compare these two demo swings and note the differences mentioned above:

Compare the two noting the differences mentioned above:




Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Kevin,

It looks like your lead hand grip is really strong with the back of your hand facing the sky? It would qualify as a Heard Super Swing grip I think. It is also close to SS except for the long thumb...

Is the back of you lead hand flat at impact? I think that if you cup it you will tend to really hook the ball do to the clubhead going toe up at impact...

Do you ever get any pain in your wrist, thumb or lead elbow?

Do you ever battle the hooks?

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

March 8th, 2010, 11:54 pm #6

Allen,

Here are some random thoughts:

If you are good at impact what difference does it make if you 'flip' your hands after impact?

The model as I understand it is that the body parts slow down in order from lower body out to the hands in order to efficiently transfer energy to the clubhead so would not your action of stopping the hips, shoulders and hands be an indication of great efficiency?

You have a lot of leg drive with your lead knee well past your lead foot which I think can be a result of doing the golden exercise. I guess you have probably changed that position in your current swing?

Your trail shoulder looks pretty low at impact and your shoulders look to be a little open?

Your lead hand grip looks to be fairly strong? Or is does it meet Scott's guidelines and I am not seeing it correctly?

Regards, Herbert
that this is a 20% speed drill done with exaggerated positions. When I speed the swing up and make it normal, the flip release happens much earlier to where it causes real damage. If you can't do it properly in a drill, then you'll never get it right in a real swing. And yes, I straighten the lead leg now as I get to impact.
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Joined: April 1st, 2003, 1:33 am

March 9th, 2010, 1:43 am #7

Doug, I'm posting a new thread as you've requested so that you can give us some insight into the Golden Exercise. IMHO, GSC 101 does not place enough emphasis on the importance of program 3c as it relates to training you to get an impact position with the hands in front of the ball ... and leaves you with a post impact position as photographed on page 140 of the book such as this:



As I was doing some 3c work this weekend, in front of a mirror, I noticed that while I could hit the pine cone without hitting the half buried ball, my tendency was to release my hands in a flippy kind of motion which did not allow me to achieve the position on page 140 and above (instead my left wrist would break down and my right wrist would flex forward.) As I played around with this, I noticed that one must continue to move the shoulders through impact to prevent this from happening, but mine were coming almost to a complete stop.

I think that there are several ways to accomplish this. Bertholy would have you tug with the lead arm through impact. Kevin would have you drive your shoulders down through impact. Others would have you drive your hips (taking the shoulders with them) through impact. I'm not sure that any of these are better than the other, but some body motion must occur through impact, otherwise you have to release early and fully straighten your trail arm and hands (wrists) to reach the ball.
here are some feels or thoughts that parlay themselves into impressive impact positions.

1. Feel as though the clubface cannot pass the lead elbow position at and past impact.

2. Feel as though the clubface cannot be allowed to surpass the lead shoulder at and past impact.

3. Swing with the trail arm off the club for about 2 years.
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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

March 9th, 2010, 2:49 am #8

example of what I'm talking about. Below are some clips from a 3c I took last summer:



Note how far my hands are ahead of the ball (white tee) pre-impact. But then hips, shoulders, arms all completely stop as I straighten my trail arm/hand (flip release) to hit the ball. In the middle post impact photo, my lead hand should be several inches in front of my lead leg and there should still be a little trail arm/hand bend. Instead, my hands haven't moved from their pre-impact position as everything straightens out. This flippyness really becomes apparent in the third photo. This is causing low left hooks and loss of power as I release early, despite the great retention of angles earlier in the swing.
Allen, do you think you might be leaning too far back
in the photos?
I know they are exaggerated positions at slow speed, but
with that much angle of the upper body hanging back,
im not sure you can do anything but what you do, it
looks like your arms reach as far as they can and the only
way to advance the club is to lose the angles and flip it.

Staying that far back with your upper body, i don't
think you can get much use from your hips and shoulders in the shot before impact.
Even if you are a arm-it type swinger as Mac calls it,
it still looks like it's almost imposible to do what
you want to do.


Look at the photos of Tiger and Love and the rest.
They appear to be more over the ball, if that's the
right terminology.

With your full speed swing, do you look more like them?

JC

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Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

March 9th, 2010, 3:07 am #9

make the Vital Move / Master Move whole retaining everything back and in place on the upper body...shoulders, arms and club. The Vital / Master move will cause the hips to move the way they need to.

When the arm assembly begins to be transported down by the trail elbow pointing to the navel, finally returning to in front of the trail hip, there are only a couple of ways you can advance the hands through the impact zone.

One ways is what I have begun to call "amrsing it". You can tell a player who arms it from this point:


by observing their hips, shoulders,and head, and note the relation of their lead arm to their torso. The position of the hips, the tilt of the shoulders, and the head remain fairly constant as the club approaches the impact zone. Most importantly, the trail arm will have to straighten in order for them to hit the ball.

The second way is to advance the club through the zone by keeping the arms package intact, maintaining the angles, and advancing them by using your hips first and then eventually your shoulders, the club eventually releases on its own. So I would say it is a combination of hips then shoulders. Spend a little bit of time in front of mirror swinging in slow motion and you can very easily discover just how your arms need to move in order to "arms it", and how your body must move in order to hit the ball without "swinging" your arms. Compare these two demo swings and note the differences mentioned above:

Compare the two noting the differences mentioned above:




Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Mac, which type of swing has won the most
tournaments do you think?

Niklaus is a armswing it, and Faldo is the body rotation
controls the club face ?

Whice type of swing is easier for a am ,and does someone's
physical characteristics-(peter,i spelled that without spell check) have a bearing on which swing
would work best for them?

jc
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

March 9th, 2010, 3:41 am #10

Kevin,

It looks like your lead hand grip is really strong with the back of your hand facing the sky? It would qualify as a Heard Super Swing grip I think. It is also close to SS except for the long thumb...

Is the back of you lead hand flat at impact? I think that if you cup it you will tend to really hook the ball do to the clubhead going toe up at impact...

Do you ever get any pain in your wrist, thumb or lead elbow?

Do you ever battle the hooks?

Regards, Herbert
"It looks like your lead hand grip is really strong with the back of your hand facing the sky?"

My grip is standard IMA lead hand grip. Not facing the sky, actually at the point in the swing it is about at a 45 degree angle...the ole camera angle thing.

"Is the back of you lead hand flat at impact?"

Yep.....

"Do you ever get any pain in your wrist, thumb or lead elbow?"

Nope

"Do you ever battle the hooks?"

I will hit a hook every now and then, but I wouldn't say I hit a hook anymore than a slice. My biggest/most consistent error is "straight left". So the answer is I don't "battle the hooks".

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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