GGA Single Plane Solution DVD review

GGA Single Plane Solution DVD review

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 29th, 2010, 2:30 am #1

The new DVD does a very good job of describing the GGA method in considerable detail. It's very well done, very professional. It incorporates their current training methods.

What follows is strictly my opinion based on my experience learning SA mostly from DVDs.

The current GGA and NG swings are very similar. When I look at Ken Martin or Todd Graves swinging, they are about the same. The differences are no more than you would see between any two individuals who use or teach the same method. Even Todd and Tim Graves do not swing exactly alike. Instruction-wise, NG could use a little more detail. Conversely, GGA is almost over-detailed. NG wants you to feel it and figure it out. GGA wants you to check and meet numerous positions and moves. Their instructions are valid but at some point I would probably have had a hard time getting it to the course. OTOH I often felt NG instruction was lacking some key points. GGA is from the school of thought (which has adherents here) that before you golf, you should spend a LOT of time learning setups, positions, and movements. NG I think is more like "here it is, feel it, try it, and go play some golf". I like that approach better but I do appreciate the detail of GGA now that I've played NG and have sought out specific fixes.

The methods differ in the prescribed hold of the club, with GGA teaching overlapping and NG teaching 10 finger. With apologies to Todd Graves, I think that is minor. What I do think is a major difference, however, is the interpretation of the lower body movement at the beginning of the downswing. I think that for either swing, the lead hip (or leg, knee, or whatever you focus on) does move at the beginning. NG teaches that the movement happens naturally in anticipation of and reaction to what is happening up top. But GGA emphasizes the lower move as something to be learned and cultivated. This might well be a personal idiosyncrasy of the instructors involved and what they feel during the swing. I know Moe said his leg/knee/whatever started first. But he also said he played on top of his legs. What I'm saying is that the lower starts first, but that doesn't mean you need to make it happen. Some might, but some might get screwed up by it.

Personally I find it very hard to consciously move the hip to start the downswing, because it's hard to keep it from taking over and throwing the swing off plane. What they are suppose to do is start, then they slow down and nearly stop till the swing passes by. So I prefer the NG instruction of swinging the upper body and letting the lower body react accordingly. It works much better for me. (And is the source of one of my most persistent problems, hence my fixation on it.) Overall, I think this distinction is the major difference between the two methods.

As always, your mileage may vary.

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Joined: June 13th, 2005, 8:24 pm

May 29th, 2010, 2:22 pm #2

Snowman, When I got the DVD, I expected something new.I was a bit dissapointed in the instruction, The quality is very good and worth a look. No matter how hard I practiced and followed the instruction, I could not get it to click. I agree that the current Ng instruction is much more simple to follow and I tended to have better success with it.

The odd thing is I migrated to a more traditional swing just with the club almost in line with my trail arm and that simple idea clicked. But I was stuck at a 8 HCP

Within the last year a friend introduced me to Gary Edwin golf the right side swing. and bamb, I found what worked for me, instantly with only 4 days to learn the basics, and there are only a few. The only difference is the trail arm alignment is SA, but the rest is all RSS.

I dont even think bertholy or hold the angle or any thought like that, When I played with some friends they told me how did I learn to hold the angle, I said I am not trying to hold anything.

Peter would like to here your thoughts on he Gary Edwin RSS as it relates to SA.
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Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

May 29th, 2010, 3:44 pm #3

The new DVD does a very good job of describing the GGA method in considerable detail. It's very well done, very professional. It incorporates their current training methods.

What follows is strictly my opinion based on my experience learning SA mostly from DVDs.

The current GGA and NG swings are very similar. When I look at Ken Martin or Todd Graves swinging, they are about the same. The differences are no more than you would see between any two individuals who use or teach the same method. Even Todd and Tim Graves do not swing exactly alike. Instruction-wise, NG could use a little more detail. Conversely, GGA is almost over-detailed. NG wants you to feel it and figure it out. GGA wants you to check and meet numerous positions and moves. Their instructions are valid but at some point I would probably have had a hard time getting it to the course. OTOH I often felt NG instruction was lacking some key points. GGA is from the school of thought (which has adherents here) that before you golf, you should spend a LOT of time learning setups, positions, and movements. NG I think is more like "here it is, feel it, try it, and go play some golf". I like that approach better but I do appreciate the detail of GGA now that I've played NG and have sought out specific fixes.

The methods differ in the prescribed hold of the club, with GGA teaching overlapping and NG teaching 10 finger. With apologies to Todd Graves, I think that is minor. What I do think is a major difference, however, is the interpretation of the lower body movement at the beginning of the downswing. I think that for either swing, the lead hip (or leg, knee, or whatever you focus on) does move at the beginning. NG teaches that the movement happens naturally in anticipation of and reaction to what is happening up top. But GGA emphasizes the lower move as something to be learned and cultivated. This might well be a personal idiosyncrasy of the instructors involved and what they feel during the swing. I know Moe said his leg/knee/whatever started first. But he also said he played on top of his legs. What I'm saying is that the lower starts first, but that doesn't mean you need to make it happen. Some might, but some might get screwed up by it.

Personally I find it very hard to consciously move the hip to start the downswing, because it's hard to keep it from taking over and throwing the swing off plane. What they are suppose to do is start, then they slow down and nearly stop till the swing passes by. So I prefer the NG instruction of swinging the upper body and letting the lower body react accordingly. It works much better for me. (And is the source of one of my most persistent problems, hence my fixation on it.) Overall, I think this distinction is the major difference between the two methods.

As always, your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the review. I just got the dvds and your ideas are spot on with mine. Though I have always used an overlapping grip with cg I find it uncomfortable with sa because the hands are not in alignment with each other on the grip and arthritis in the middle finger of my trail hand probably doesn't help either. I also tend to overdo it when I conciously try to initiate the downswing with my hips/lower body. But I know from video in years past that even though I don't think about moving the lower body first it does happen. In fact, I think it would be very hard to make the downswing without this happening. It's true that many people don't finish the swing once contact with the ball is made but I would bet that most actually do start with the lower body to some degree even if they don't know it. I just tried making a downswing without doing this and wasn't able to. Now, working on maintaining the lag is exactly what I need to get about doing because I really do believe that most, myself included, throw away most of our clubhead speed/power before we ever get to the ball.
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Joined: October 26th, 2007, 12:53 am

May 30th, 2010, 12:37 pm #4

The new DVD does a very good job of describing the GGA method in considerable detail. It's very well done, very professional. It incorporates their current training methods.

What follows is strictly my opinion based on my experience learning SA mostly from DVDs.

The current GGA and NG swings are very similar. When I look at Ken Martin or Todd Graves swinging, they are about the same. The differences are no more than you would see between any two individuals who use or teach the same method. Even Todd and Tim Graves do not swing exactly alike. Instruction-wise, NG could use a little more detail. Conversely, GGA is almost over-detailed. NG wants you to feel it and figure it out. GGA wants you to check and meet numerous positions and moves. Their instructions are valid but at some point I would probably have had a hard time getting it to the course. OTOH I often felt NG instruction was lacking some key points. GGA is from the school of thought (which has adherents here) that before you golf, you should spend a LOT of time learning setups, positions, and movements. NG I think is more like "here it is, feel it, try it, and go play some golf". I like that approach better but I do appreciate the detail of GGA now that I've played NG and have sought out specific fixes.

The methods differ in the prescribed hold of the club, with GGA teaching overlapping and NG teaching 10 finger. With apologies to Todd Graves, I think that is minor. What I do think is a major difference, however, is the interpretation of the lower body movement at the beginning of the downswing. I think that for either swing, the lead hip (or leg, knee, or whatever you focus on) does move at the beginning. NG teaches that the movement happens naturally in anticipation of and reaction to what is happening up top. But GGA emphasizes the lower move as something to be learned and cultivated. This might well be a personal idiosyncrasy of the instructors involved and what they feel during the swing. I know Moe said his leg/knee/whatever started first. But he also said he played on top of his legs. What I'm saying is that the lower starts first, but that doesn't mean you need to make it happen. Some might, but some might get screwed up by it.

Personally I find it very hard to consciously move the hip to start the downswing, because it's hard to keep it from taking over and throwing the swing off plane. What they are suppose to do is start, then they slow down and nearly stop till the swing passes by. So I prefer the NG instruction of swinging the upper body and letting the lower body react accordingly. It works much better for me. (And is the source of one of my most persistent problems, hence my fixation on it.) Overall, I think this distinction is the major difference between the two methods.

As always, your mileage may vary.
Snowman -- I also bought the new GGA DVD's, and find them very well done. The only problem I'm having with the instruction on the DVD's is the speed with which both Tim and Todd present the swing instruction. They both talk very fast, and make the instructions hard to follow. The photography is very well done, great closeups of their prescribed grip and swing setup. I agree with you, the swing presentations are very detailed, which will require several viewings of the instructions to understand the details. Quite a bit of time is spent on showing their various training aids (sales pitch). The section covering PVC drill setup and application is well done. The DVD's are certainly worth the money.

AllenG
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 30th, 2010, 2:14 pm #5

Snowman, When I got the DVD, I expected something new.I was a bit dissapointed in the instruction, The quality is very good and worth a look. No matter how hard I practiced and followed the instruction, I could not get it to click. I agree that the current Ng instruction is much more simple to follow and I tended to have better success with it.

The odd thing is I migrated to a more traditional swing just with the club almost in line with my trail arm and that simple idea clicked. But I was stuck at a 8 HCP

Within the last year a friend introduced me to Gary Edwin golf the right side swing. and bamb, I found what worked for me, instantly with only 4 days to learn the basics, and there are only a few. The only difference is the trail arm alignment is SA, but the rest is all RSS.

I dont even think bertholy or hold the angle or any thought like that, When I played with some friends they told me how did I learn to hold the angle, I said I am not trying to hold anything.

Peter would like to here your thoughts on he Gary Edwin RSS as it relates to SA.
I'm no familiar with RSS but I'll look into it.

With regard to holding the angle be warned that MANY here have been told by friends and even teaching pros that they were but video revealed they were not. Video of your swing is the best way to KNOW that you're accomplishing it.

Peter

Update:

I took a look at the Gary Edwards site. There is not a lot of information but reviewing the video of people presumably employing his swing, they are learly not tour pro swings. There is no lower body movement prior to the club beginning the downswing and this is common in all tour pros I've examined on video. This and some other comments make the swing seem to be to be close to the BGG swing or the IMA swing in Impact Backwards drill #5.

Last edited by sagf_moderator on May 30th, 2010, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 30th, 2010, 4:08 pm #6

Thanks for the review. I just got the dvds and your ideas are spot on with mine. Though I have always used an overlapping grip with cg I find it uncomfortable with sa because the hands are not in alignment with each other on the grip and arthritis in the middle finger of my trail hand probably doesn't help either. I also tend to overdo it when I conciously try to initiate the downswing with my hips/lower body. But I know from video in years past that even though I don't think about moving the lower body first it does happen. In fact, I think it would be very hard to make the downswing without this happening. It's true that many people don't finish the swing once contact with the ball is made but I would bet that most actually do start with the lower body to some degree even if they don't know it. I just tried making a downswing without doing this and wasn't able to. Now, working on maintaining the lag is exactly what I need to get about doing because I really do believe that most, myself included, throw away most of our clubhead speed/power before we ever get to the ball.
In reading their message board over the years, I get the impression that GGA gets a lot of former NG students. According to my NGCI, one of the big problems he has encountered came about because of the "face the ball at impact" thing. Which has since been dropped (because golf instruction evolves.) He would get students who tried to swing with zero lower body movement. So I'm betting GGA has had a lot of the same situation. If so, that might have led to the in-depth treatment of what the lower body is supposed to be doing.
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Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

May 30th, 2010, 4:27 pm #7

I'm no familiar with RSS but I'll look into it.

With regard to holding the angle be warned that MANY here have been told by friends and even teaching pros that they were but video revealed they were not. Video of your swing is the best way to KNOW that you're accomplishing it.

Peter

Update:

I took a look at the Gary Edwards site. There is not a lot of information but reviewing the video of people presumably employing his swing, they are learly not tour pro swings. There is no lower body movement prior to the club beginning the downswing and this is common in all tour pros I've examined on video. This and some other comments make the swing seem to be to be close to the BGG swing or the IMA swing in Impact Backwards drill #5.
Peter, the best place to take a look at this is a Golf Channel Academy Live show. It features Jerry Foltz with Gary Edwin and one of his students, Gavin Coles who was playing on the Australian Tour. I found the Youtube videos to be useless. Anyway, here is the link to the Academy Live show. It lasts about an hour. I don't see any SA in this though but it is interesting.

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/golf-vide ... vgpresults
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 30th, 2010, 11:17 pm #8

In reading their message board over the years, I get the impression that GGA gets a lot of former NG students. According to my NGCI, one of the big problems he has encountered came about because of the "face the ball at impact" thing. Which has since been dropped (because golf instruction evolves.) He would get students who tried to swing with zero lower body movement. So I'm betting GGA has had a lot of the same situation. If so, that might have led to the in-depth treatment of what the lower body is supposed to be doing.
NG first taught a 'small but powerful' lateral move of the hips as part of the swing. Later NG taught that the lower body only moved as a reaction to the movement of the upper body. Todd was involved with if not the lead of the development of NG instruction at both times.

Given the NG history a focus on the lower body moving first is a devolution vs an evolution assuming the first change was an evolution.

Peter
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