Flip it to hit it far???

Flip it to hit it far???

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

July 18th, 2011, 8:15 am #1

Trackman info:
http://www.hititlonger.com/blog/article ... iz-distanc

Quote:
5. Release the head of the club! If you are trying to lag or delay the release of the clubhead, you will have a very difficult time getting your angle of attack into positive territory, much less +5 degrees. Waiting or trying to hold lag will cause you to actually have forward lean at impact, which necessarily means the clubhead has not reached the bottom of the swing arc.

Instead, we need to throw the clubhead slightly out in front of the hands by the time it reaches impact. This will require you to start releasing from the top of the swing, as there is a time delay between stimulus of the muscles, reaction, and response, which is the clubshaft catching up to the left arm to form a line by the time you reach the left heel. Ideally we want to see that slight negative lead at impact that we started with at address.

Training high school and college golfers lately on the Trackman, I began to see release timing as a huge factor in creating positive AoA. They were pivoting correctly, with good ball position....so why were they still at -1 degrees? My theory was proven correct when they started to uncock the club earlier. Not only did they start hitting longer straighter drives, but the angle of attack jumped up well into positive territory.

Focus on the image of Fred Couples just after impact. See how the clubshaft is already a good 30 degrees past his left arm. He started releasing as soon at the beginning of the downswing, and let his wrists free hinge through the hit, rather than going rigid. This is the key to his effortless long hitting.

Many long drivers subscribe to the 'hold the lag' method, which often makes them late with the clubhead, and they block the ball well right. Eventually they will learn to flip the face over, squaring up the face but not gaining the advantage of a positive AoA. This also brings a duck hook into play. Watching a long drive competition, you often see this pattern of erratic driving.

Let's take a look at current World Long Drive Champion Joe Miller, who releases the clubhead extremely well:

The throwing of the clubhead out in front of the hands is what gives Joe a tremendous positive angle of attack. His winning drive last year was launched at 11.7 degrees with less than 2000 rpm of backspin, even though he was swinging a 3.5 degree driver. He is hitting the ball squarely and on the upswing.

One more look at Joe from face on:

Notice that the butt end of the club is still slightly behind the tee! The clubhead is out ahead striking upwards on the ball for maximum club to ball energy transfer. Joe reaches speeds of nearly 150 mph clubhead speed and 225 mph ball speed. His winning drive was 414 yards.

Following these 5 steps can pick you up between 25 and 40 yards to your driving game, just by changing one swing parameter, angle of attack. Now you can be the guy who swings smoothly and easily, and still hits it past everyone in the foursome! Unless of course Dunaway, Couples, and Miller make up your foursome. Then I hope you're playing a scramble.
End quote

You will need to follow the link at the top to see the pictures and read the rest.

Seems like doing this would require a different swing for the irons?

Regards, Herbert

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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

July 18th, 2011, 8:55 am #2



I believe that if these pics were of me in the same arm club positions I would be told that I had clubhead throwaway and was not sustaining the lag. Or that I was Y and not y at impact.

LOL the golf instruction world is a crazy place!

Regards, Herbert

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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

July 18th, 2011, 12:10 pm #3

to argue with someone that is using Trackman and such to sound all "sciencey...and we do know that positive angle of attack is the way to launch...

But we also know that most PGA pros Trackman AoA is negative.

The real problem with teaching that is not what Joe Miller is doing...obviously the pic is the pic...can't argue with that. But if you play the ball more forward...look at any pro whose clubhead is in that same position at that point in the swing, you see the same thing....

The real problem is teaching "the rest of us"....like you said golf instruction is crazy. Most of the regular guys would be well served to learn how to properly sequence the swing and "lag the club"...the way Couples does. Most of us weekend warriors have trouble making a good move to start the downswing, so forget about "releasing from the top"....we know how to do that!

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

July 18th, 2011, 4:45 pm #4

Trackman info:
http://www.hititlonger.com/blog/article ... iz-distanc

Quote:
5. Release the head of the club! If you are trying to lag or delay the release of the clubhead, you will have a very difficult time getting your angle of attack into positive territory, much less +5 degrees. Waiting or trying to hold lag will cause you to actually have forward lean at impact, which necessarily means the clubhead has not reached the bottom of the swing arc.

Instead, we need to throw the clubhead slightly out in front of the hands by the time it reaches impact. This will require you to start releasing from the top of the swing, as there is a time delay between stimulus of the muscles, reaction, and response, which is the clubshaft catching up to the left arm to form a line by the time you reach the left heel. Ideally we want to see that slight negative lead at impact that we started with at address.

Training high school and college golfers lately on the Trackman, I began to see release timing as a huge factor in creating positive AoA. They were pivoting correctly, with good ball position....so why were they still at -1 degrees? My theory was proven correct when they started to uncock the club earlier. Not only did they start hitting longer straighter drives, but the angle of attack jumped up well into positive territory.

Focus on the image of Fred Couples just after impact. See how the clubshaft is already a good 30 degrees past his left arm. He started releasing as soon at the beginning of the downswing, and let his wrists free hinge through the hit, rather than going rigid. This is the key to his effortless long hitting.

Many long drivers subscribe to the 'hold the lag' method, which often makes them late with the clubhead, and they block the ball well right. Eventually they will learn to flip the face over, squaring up the face but not gaining the advantage of a positive AoA. This also brings a duck hook into play. Watching a long drive competition, you often see this pattern of erratic driving.

Let's take a look at current World Long Drive Champion Joe Miller, who releases the clubhead extremely well:

The throwing of the clubhead out in front of the hands is what gives Joe a tremendous positive angle of attack. His winning drive last year was launched at 11.7 degrees with less than 2000 rpm of backspin, even though he was swinging a 3.5 degree driver. He is hitting the ball squarely and on the upswing.

One more look at Joe from face on:

Notice that the butt end of the club is still slightly behind the tee! The clubhead is out ahead striking upwards on the ball for maximum club to ball energy transfer. Joe reaches speeds of nearly 150 mph clubhead speed and 225 mph ball speed. His winning drive was 414 yards.

Following these 5 steps can pick you up between 25 and 40 yards to your driving game, just by changing one swing parameter, angle of attack. Now you can be the guy who swings smoothly and easily, and still hits it past everyone in the foursome! Unless of course Dunaway, Couples, and Miller make up your foursome. Then I hope you're playing a scramble.
End quote

You will need to follow the link at the top to see the pictures and read the rest.

Seems like doing this would require a different swing for the irons?

Regards, Herbert
Yeah, you'd have to cultivate a special driver swing. Doesn't mean it can't be done.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

July 18th, 2011, 7:16 pm #5

to argue with someone that is using Trackman and such to sound all "sciencey...and we do know that positive angle of attack is the way to launch...

But we also know that most PGA pros Trackman AoA is negative.

The real problem with teaching that is not what Joe Miller is doing...obviously the pic is the pic...can't argue with that. But if you play the ball more forward...look at any pro whose clubhead is in that same position at that point in the swing, you see the same thing....

The real problem is teaching "the rest of us"....like you said golf instruction is crazy. Most of the regular guys would be well served to learn how to properly sequence the swing and "lag the club"...the way Couples does. Most of us weekend warriors have trouble making a good move to start the downswing, so forget about "releasing from the top"....we know how to do that!

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
I can pretty much guarantee that if the average player does what is advised they might improve the distance on driver shots but will surely destroy their iron game.

I have noticed that with my swing I sometimes fly my driver 30 or more yards farther then 'normal' and I am pretty sure it is spin and launch angle getting accidentally right.

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

July 18th, 2011, 8:05 pm #6

to argue with someone that is using Trackman and such to sound all "sciencey...and we do know that positive angle of attack is the way to launch...

But we also know that most PGA pros Trackman AoA is negative.

The real problem with teaching that is not what Joe Miller is doing...obviously the pic is the pic...can't argue with that. But if you play the ball more forward...look at any pro whose clubhead is in that same position at that point in the swing, you see the same thing....

The real problem is teaching "the rest of us"....like you said golf instruction is crazy. Most of the regular guys would be well served to learn how to properly sequence the swing and "lag the club"...the way Couples does. Most of us weekend warriors have trouble making a good move to start the downswing, so forget about "releasing from the top"....we know how to do that!

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
how most pros would look at impact if the ball was teed up on every shot!

Regards, Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on July 18th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

July 18th, 2011, 9:56 pm #7

Yeah, you'd have to cultivate a special driver swing. Doesn't mean it can't be done.
if Joe learned that release intentionally or if it is just his natural release... Would be interesting to see how he hits iron shots. Looks like a poster for Count Yogi!

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 19th, 2011, 2:23 am #8

Trackman info:
http://www.hititlonger.com/blog/article ... iz-distanc

Quote:
5. Release the head of the club! If you are trying to lag or delay the release of the clubhead, you will have a very difficult time getting your angle of attack into positive territory, much less +5 degrees. Waiting or trying to hold lag will cause you to actually have forward lean at impact, which necessarily means the clubhead has not reached the bottom of the swing arc.

Instead, we need to throw the clubhead slightly out in front of the hands by the time it reaches impact. This will require you to start releasing from the top of the swing, as there is a time delay between stimulus of the muscles, reaction, and response, which is the clubshaft catching up to the left arm to form a line by the time you reach the left heel. Ideally we want to see that slight negative lead at impact that we started with at address.

Training high school and college golfers lately on the Trackman, I began to see release timing as a huge factor in creating positive AoA. They were pivoting correctly, with good ball position....so why were they still at -1 degrees? My theory was proven correct when they started to uncock the club earlier. Not only did they start hitting longer straighter drives, but the angle of attack jumped up well into positive territory.

Focus on the image of Fred Couples just after impact. See how the clubshaft is already a good 30 degrees past his left arm. He started releasing as soon at the beginning of the downswing, and let his wrists free hinge through the hit, rather than going rigid. This is the key to his effortless long hitting.

Many long drivers subscribe to the 'hold the lag' method, which often makes them late with the clubhead, and they block the ball well right. Eventually they will learn to flip the face over, squaring up the face but not gaining the advantage of a positive AoA. This also brings a duck hook into play. Watching a long drive competition, you often see this pattern of erratic driving.

Let's take a look at current World Long Drive Champion Joe Miller, who releases the clubhead extremely well:

The throwing of the clubhead out in front of the hands is what gives Joe a tremendous positive angle of attack. His winning drive last year was launched at 11.7 degrees with less than 2000 rpm of backspin, even though he was swinging a 3.5 degree driver. He is hitting the ball squarely and on the upswing.

One more look at Joe from face on:

Notice that the butt end of the club is still slightly behind the tee! The clubhead is out ahead striking upwards on the ball for maximum club to ball energy transfer. Joe reaches speeds of nearly 150 mph clubhead speed and 225 mph ball speed. His winning drive was 414 yards.

Following these 5 steps can pick you up between 25 and 40 yards to your driving game, just by changing one swing parameter, angle of attack. Now you can be the guy who swings smoothly and easily, and still hits it past everyone in the foursome! Unless of course Dunaway, Couples, and Miller make up your foursome. Then I hope you're playing a scramble.
End quote

You will need to follow the link at the top to see the pictures and read the rest.

Seems like doing this would require a different swing for the irons?

Regards, Herbert
I have for years:

I have for years but I do not see the club 30 degrees past his lead arm.

Peter
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Joined: November 17th, 2001, 6:19 am

July 19th, 2011, 9:54 am #9

Trackman info:
http://www.hititlonger.com/blog/article ... iz-distanc

Quote:
5. Release the head of the club! If you are trying to lag or delay the release of the clubhead, you will have a very difficult time getting your angle of attack into positive territory, much less +5 degrees. Waiting or trying to hold lag will cause you to actually have forward lean at impact, which necessarily means the clubhead has not reached the bottom of the swing arc.

Instead, we need to throw the clubhead slightly out in front of the hands by the time it reaches impact. This will require you to start releasing from the top of the swing, as there is a time delay between stimulus of the muscles, reaction, and response, which is the clubshaft catching up to the left arm to form a line by the time you reach the left heel. Ideally we want to see that slight negative lead at impact that we started with at address.

Training high school and college golfers lately on the Trackman, I began to see release timing as a huge factor in creating positive AoA. They were pivoting correctly, with good ball position....so why were they still at -1 degrees? My theory was proven correct when they started to uncock the club earlier. Not only did they start hitting longer straighter drives, but the angle of attack jumped up well into positive territory.

Focus on the image of Fred Couples just after impact. See how the clubshaft is already a good 30 degrees past his left arm. He started releasing as soon at the beginning of the downswing, and let his wrists free hinge through the hit, rather than going rigid. This is the key to his effortless long hitting.

Many long drivers subscribe to the 'hold the lag' method, which often makes them late with the clubhead, and they block the ball well right. Eventually they will learn to flip the face over, squaring up the face but not gaining the advantage of a positive AoA. This also brings a duck hook into play. Watching a long drive competition, you often see this pattern of erratic driving.

Let's take a look at current World Long Drive Champion Joe Miller, who releases the clubhead extremely well:

The throwing of the clubhead out in front of the hands is what gives Joe a tremendous positive angle of attack. His winning drive last year was launched at 11.7 degrees with less than 2000 rpm of backspin, even though he was swinging a 3.5 degree driver. He is hitting the ball squarely and on the upswing.

One more look at Joe from face on:

Notice that the butt end of the club is still slightly behind the tee! The clubhead is out ahead striking upwards on the ball for maximum club to ball energy transfer. Joe reaches speeds of nearly 150 mph clubhead speed and 225 mph ball speed. His winning drive was 414 yards.

Following these 5 steps can pick you up between 25 and 40 yards to your driving game, just by changing one swing parameter, angle of attack. Now you can be the guy who swings smoothly and easily, and still hits it past everyone in the foursome! Unless of course Dunaway, Couples, and Miller make up your foursome. Then I hope you're playing a scramble.
End quote

You will need to follow the link at the top to see the pictures and read the rest.

Seems like doing this would require a different swing for the irons?

Regards, Herbert
that if you tee it up high enough, and position the ball far enough to the left then you can hit up without releasing earlier.

I believe that having the upper torso more open relative to spine angle at impact helps, coupled with the head staying back at impact will make the proper angle of attack possible.

Switched to an 8.5 degree Burner TP this year and worked on angle of attack with video and my purelaunch launch monitor and my distance has improved about 15 to 20 yards. That is also without increasing club head speed. Strangely launching the ball at 16 to 18° seems to get the most carry distance for me. I also must tee it up around 3 inches high to get the high launch.

Best regards,

Ham

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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

July 19th, 2011, 3:33 pm #10

Trackman info:
http://www.hititlonger.com/blog/article ... iz-distanc

Quote:
5. Release the head of the club! If you are trying to lag or delay the release of the clubhead, you will have a very difficult time getting your angle of attack into positive territory, much less +5 degrees. Waiting or trying to hold lag will cause you to actually have forward lean at impact, which necessarily means the clubhead has not reached the bottom of the swing arc.

Instead, we need to throw the clubhead slightly out in front of the hands by the time it reaches impact. This will require you to start releasing from the top of the swing, as there is a time delay between stimulus of the muscles, reaction, and response, which is the clubshaft catching up to the left arm to form a line by the time you reach the left heel. Ideally we want to see that slight negative lead at impact that we started with at address.

Training high school and college golfers lately on the Trackman, I began to see release timing as a huge factor in creating positive AoA. They were pivoting correctly, with good ball position....so why were they still at -1 degrees? My theory was proven correct when they started to uncock the club earlier. Not only did they start hitting longer straighter drives, but the angle of attack jumped up well into positive territory.

Focus on the image of Fred Couples just after impact. See how the clubshaft is already a good 30 degrees past his left arm. He started releasing as soon at the beginning of the downswing, and let his wrists free hinge through the hit, rather than going rigid. This is the key to his effortless long hitting.

Many long drivers subscribe to the 'hold the lag' method, which often makes them late with the clubhead, and they block the ball well right. Eventually they will learn to flip the face over, squaring up the face but not gaining the advantage of a positive AoA. This also brings a duck hook into play. Watching a long drive competition, you often see this pattern of erratic driving.

Let's take a look at current World Long Drive Champion Joe Miller, who releases the clubhead extremely well:

The throwing of the clubhead out in front of the hands is what gives Joe a tremendous positive angle of attack. His winning drive last year was launched at 11.7 degrees with less than 2000 rpm of backspin, even though he was swinging a 3.5 degree driver. He is hitting the ball squarely and on the upswing.

One more look at Joe from face on:

Notice that the butt end of the club is still slightly behind the tee! The clubhead is out ahead striking upwards on the ball for maximum club to ball energy transfer. Joe reaches speeds of nearly 150 mph clubhead speed and 225 mph ball speed. His winning drive was 414 yards.

Following these 5 steps can pick you up between 25 and 40 yards to your driving game, just by changing one swing parameter, angle of attack. Now you can be the guy who swings smoothly and easily, and still hits it past everyone in the foursome! Unless of course Dunaway, Couples, and Miller make up your foursome. Then I hope you're playing a scramble.
End quote

You will need to follow the link at the top to see the pictures and read the rest.

Seems like doing this would require a different swing for the irons?

Regards, Herbert
At and after impact. Just look at how he's released that club head!


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