Falling in...

Falling in...

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 23rd, 2010, 11:45 am #1

Here is a look at exactly what I am trying to correct in my swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UONDf8di ... re=channel

About 3:20 mark in the video he demonstrates my swing! LOL this is not easy to correct for me, I feel like I am maintaining posture but no go on the video... Better then before but still not close to what I want. My hips thrust in my head drops and my back rounds. Very hard to change 44 years of doing that! As a matter of fact I really don't even know what it feels like to do it 'correctly'.

Here is a look at address vs. just prior to impact yesterday:


LOL this is in fact a rather large improvement compared to before I started working on this!

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 23rd, 2010, 3:49 pm #2

Not knowing what it feels like when correct is one of the largest obstacles to correcting a problem. There should be some level of partial swing that will allow you to maintain posture. I'd suggest starting there and working back to a full swing. This is the process you follow with IMAs 'impact backwards' drills.

When you know the correct feel you'll then be able to identify when it's not correct.

BTW I just watched the YouTube video and the lack of space from letting your hips move forward will also cause an earlier 'dumping' of the angle between lead arm and club (because you trail arm can not get far enough forward while bent

Peter
Last edited by sagf_moderator on October 23rd, 2010, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 23rd, 2010, 5:30 pm #3

The extra space is the first thing that noticed when I started working on keeping my butt back. The picture above of impact is a lot better then previous to my work on this. Of course you have mentioned this in the past!

As for IMA, drill 1 and 2 are okay for me in this regard but the rest... Not so good. Part of the solution to this problem is that I have my net outside now instead of in the garage and I can easily video myself. I never looked at this angle much in the past... It was really Bob Pritchard's SOMAX spine angle analysis of various golfers that got me to looking at the rear profile.

It is the angle of the lower spine that is changing a lot in the pictures that I posted. How important is this angle in your opinion? Should this be emphasized more? Maybe the benchmarks that you came up with should include a section on this check?

Another thing is my top of backswing position:


LOL this feels like it is really steep but is actually in Trahan's 'Sacred Burial Ground'...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 23rd, 2010, 7:02 pm #4

Not knowing what it feels like when correct is one of the largest obstacles to correcting a problem. There should be some level of partial swing that will allow you to maintain posture. I'd suggest starting there and working back to a full swing. This is the process you follow with IMAs 'impact backwards' drills.

When you know the correct feel you'll then be able to identify when it's not correct.

BTW I just watched the YouTube video and the lack of space from letting your hips move forward will also cause an earlier 'dumping' of the angle between lead arm and club (because you trail arm can not get far enough forward while bent

Peter
Here is drill 3 address and impact from left to right:


Drill 4


Not too bad after all?

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 23rd, 2010, 10:01 pm #5

The extra space is the first thing that noticed when I started working on keeping my butt back. The picture above of impact is a lot better then previous to my work on this. Of course you have mentioned this in the past!

As for IMA, drill 1 and 2 are okay for me in this regard but the rest... Not so good. Part of the solution to this problem is that I have my net outside now instead of in the garage and I can easily video myself. I never looked at this angle much in the past... It was really Bob Pritchard's SOMAX spine angle analysis of various golfers that got me to looking at the rear profile.

It is the angle of the lower spine that is changing a lot in the pictures that I posted. How important is this angle in your opinion? Should this be emphasized more? Maybe the benchmarks that you came up with should include a section on this check?

Another thing is my top of backswing position:


LOL this feels like it is really steep but is actually in Trahan's 'Sacred Burial Ground'...

Regards, Herbert
I think that angle of 'forward lean' over the ball is very important. While I've not specified it as my benchmark I have posted results of studies that show it is a statistically significant differentiator between amateurs and pros (more lean for pros) and noted that it can make a significant difference on as small a shot as a chip using my 2.5 or IMAs #3 drill swings.

You should be able to maintain your spine position with IMA drill #3 (trail arm piston). If you can't then that is the place to start working. Next stop is drill #4 (lead arm up no shoulder turn). Since the whole drill is for each is done with your body in impact position (weight on lead foot, torso leaning over the ball and away from the target) it is a good rehearsal for the correct position. My guess is that you're loosing the forward lean related to shoulder rotation or weight shift both of which are eliminated in these drills.

The time spent in the correct position will be very valuable. I've found that like the trail elbow position requires particular strength and flexibility. The tendency to 'round off' is a result of not having enough of the 2 so it represents the 'lazy' position.

BTW Your top of swing position is not bad. Some pros would say that your trail forearm should be more vertical. I can say that when my trail elbow gets that high there is no chance that I will get it back to 'on station' while maintaining the bend at elbow and wrist.

Peter
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 23rd, 2010, 10:33 pm #6

Here is drill 3 address and impact from left to right:


Drill 4


Not too bad after all?

Regards, Herbert
That is much closer between the two. You may want to work on a flatter back.

One difference from the previous photos is the much reduced 'dual rail' look at impact. From this angle your lead arm should appear 'above' your trail arm ('dual rails'). You had more in the previous full swing photos and there should be at least as much here. Because the drill starts from impact position it should be visible at address and impact and the two positions should be nearly identical.

Following is Scott in a real swing (so a real address). The drill's address position should match the actual impact position:



Peter
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 23rd, 2010, 10:42 pm #7

I think that angle of 'forward lean' over the ball is very important. While I've not specified it as my benchmark I have posted results of studies that show it is a statistically significant differentiator between amateurs and pros (more lean for pros) and noted that it can make a significant difference on as small a shot as a chip using my 2.5 or IMAs #3 drill swings.

You should be able to maintain your spine position with IMA drill #3 (trail arm piston). If you can't then that is the place to start working. Next stop is drill #4 (lead arm up no shoulder turn). Since the whole drill is for each is done with your body in impact position (weight on lead foot, torso leaning over the ball and away from the target) it is a good rehearsal for the correct position. My guess is that you're loosing the forward lean related to shoulder rotation or weight shift both of which are eliminated in these drills.

The time spent in the correct position will be very valuable. I've found that like the trail elbow position requires particular strength and flexibility. The tendency to 'round off' is a result of not having enough of the 2 so it represents the 'lazy' position.

BTW Your top of swing position is not bad. Some pros would say that your trail forearm should be more vertical. I can say that when my trail elbow gets that high there is no chance that I will get it back to 'on station' while maintaining the bend at elbow and wrist.

Peter
was pointed out to me after last posting my latest swing, I have made this the exclusive focus in my practice - in other words, it is the only thing I consciuously think about and "try to do" during my reps with conscious direction ( manual ).

The results have been pretty amazing, with tighter dispersion, an improved ability to control ball flight, and a tad more distance. While practicing I have ALOT of lower back pain, probably because different muscles have been brought into play compared to those used in the way I have been swinging. HOWEVER, lower back pain is non-existent just a few hours later, and non at all the next day!

One other thing i have been doing a couple times a week is slow mo swings with my but cheeks touching my pool table and focusing on "bumping the table" with my trail cheek, and then after I make the Vital / Master move, bumping it with my right cheek while keeping my lead knee flexed. VERY helpful.

Thanks Peter and the rest of the SA GANG.... GREAT STUFF.

Kevin



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 24th, 2010, 7:37 am #8

Are you tightening your abs while swinging and practicing?

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 24th, 2010, 2:34 pm #9




Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 24th, 2010, 4:32 pm #10

Here is a look at exactly what I am trying to correct in my swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UONDf8di ... re=channel

About 3:20 mark in the video he demonstrates my swing! LOL this is not easy to correct for me, I feel like I am maintaining posture but no go on the video... Better then before but still not close to what I want. My hips thrust in my head drops and my back rounds. Very hard to change 44 years of doing that! As a matter of fact I really don't even know what it feels like to do it 'correctly'.

Here is a look at address vs. just prior to impact yesterday:


LOL this is in fact a rather large improvement compared to before I started working on this!

Regards, Herbert
Will hold up better?



Jerry Kelly or Paul Casey? Interesting that they both seem to straighten the lead leg...

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Last edited by mcirishman57 on October 24th, 2010, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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