Comparison...

Comparison...

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 2nd, 2010, 9:17 pm #1

Which release is 'better'? Why?


Herbert
Last edited by gHerbert on November 1st, 2010, 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

October 2nd, 2010, 11:16 pm #2

Well, the hands in the top photos look just a margin better but I would still say the bottom photos show a better swing because there seems to be more lower body involvement and the difference in the hands is minute. Because of the lower body movement I would think the bottom photos show a better release as the hands would be more in front of the body versus around the body that would probably be the case in the top photos resulting in a better shot. My guess anyway.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 3rd, 2010, 2:45 pm #3

Which release is 'better'? Why?


Herbert
I like....

But it has more to do with what your arms are doing in the top, and what they aren't doing in the bottom.

In the top you can see that your shoulders have stalled, and that your arms have swung past your body. In fact there is not much body action at all, compared to the bottom. In the bottom, your hips have rotated, and the trail shoulder has moved down a lot. It looks like a more athletic action.

For a long time ( since Bertholy )I have not liked the term "release"...it just implies that the golfer is doing something through the impact zone. Indeed most instruction talks of it in this way, like we have control of what happens at this stage.

The whole swing is a release when it is properly sequenced - the chain action Hogan talks about. The best "releases" are the involuntary ones that happen from applying muscle antagonism ( Bertholy-ism ) that is released by PSM and proper tempo.

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 3rd, 2010, 7:03 pm #4

Which release is 'better'? Why?


Herbert
In normal golf 'lingo' the term 'release' is used to mean two different things and you have to infer from the context which is relevant. In one case it's used to mean the increase of the angle between the lead arm and the club and in the other it's used to mean the rotation of the club head through impact. You did not say which or both you intended in your question.

It's clear that the two were not swings with the same goal (e.g. distance) as your body is different between the two (note the more vertical trail leg in the upper series).

Assuming you want the comparison to assume the swings were the same except for 'release' and that by 'release' you mean the releasing the angle between lead arm and club, the upper sequence shows a better swing because your hands are closer to the target before the club passes your hands.

Following is an example for comparison from a real full swing:



(shaft bend optional ) Note that where his hands are at impact your's are already in follow through.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 3rd, 2010, 9:38 pm #5

Thanks for all of the responses!

Peter got the point that I was interested in. The top photo shows my hands where I would like them to be.

The *%1^g problem is that the top swing is a practice swing! I had no feeling or idea that I was in decent position and the swing was completely effortless.

I have played using my practice swing as my ball swing in the past and I am going to work on doing that again. As a matter of fact I tried it today and it worked pretty well. During my practice swings I pretend that I am hitting the shot and try to imagine what the shot would have looked like. Then during my real swing I relax and pretend like I am just making a practice swing. There are some bad things that can happen from doing this but overall it works pretty well for me...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 4th, 2010, 12:09 pm #6

That is evidence of the mental intimidation produced by the situation and what Bertholy called the 'hit' impulse. Mental management techniques can help you to produce your best swing in more situations vs training that helps you to make your best swing better.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 4th, 2010, 6:31 pm #7

Very well put!

The thing is that this is a very low pressure situation hitting balls into a net. I can't make the swing that I have trained so hard to make when the ball is there but I can do it with no problem if the ball is not in the way! LOL what a knuckle head!

I had never bothered to look at video of a practice swing before. At this point I wish that had! I wonder if anyone else has looked at video of their practice swing vs. ball swing?

I think that this to some extent answers a question that had bothered me for many years which is why some people can reach good impact position with lots of lag naturally while others struggle with it. I think that I am getting closer to understanding why this happens now...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 3:25 am

October 4th, 2010, 9:23 pm #8

My swing was video taped recently without a ball. The golf instructor told me that he didn't see anything wrong with my swing. Then he video taped my swing with me hitting a ball, everything was fine until I got to paralell down the line in the down swing. My trail shoulder came out instead of staying back and down through impact. I believe that I have the word hit on my mind with the ball and not without the ball. Not thinking about "hit" with the ball is hard for me to do.

Igit
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 4th, 2010, 9:54 pm #9

Very well put!

The thing is that this is a very low pressure situation hitting balls into a net. I can't make the swing that I have trained so hard to make when the ball is there but I can do it with no problem if the ball is not in the way! LOL what a knuckle head!

I had never bothered to look at video of a practice swing before. At this point I wish that had! I wonder if anyone else has looked at video of their practice swing vs. ball swing?

I think that this to some extent answers a question that had bothered me for many years which is why some people can reach good impact position with lots of lag naturally while others struggle with it. I think that I am getting closer to understanding why this happens now...

Regards, Herbert
Ben Hogan said 'Show me a natural golf swing and I'll show you a bad golf swing.' While that my not be universal I think it's close. A good golf swing requires (especially for those playing on the 'same side' e.g. righties playing right handed as noted by Bertholy) that you do some things that are not 'natural' and pressure tends to bring out the 'natural' in sports performance.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 4th, 2010, 11:15 pm #10

Good that it all makes sense to you anyway!

1) My natural swing with no ball is good.
2) My natural swing with a ball is no good.

Which one is really natural and which one is getting interfered with by me???

Regards, Herbert
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