Calling on Herbert

Calling on Herbert

Joined: October 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

October 25th, 2009, 1:16 pm #1

Hi. Here is something you have said that I thought was interesting
(your previous post) "I have combined Trahan with Simple Swing.."

I played 18 yesterday. Wet, fall conditions and a strong wind made the course almost unplayable. It was very hard to judge how well my swing was working. The back nine was a perfect opportunity to change it up since the scorecard was reflecting the crappy conditions. I remembered what you said about your swing experimentation "Symple-Trahan"?

I Know the SS well and I am comfortable with the swing philosophy. So, I gave the "Herbert Symple Swing Trahan" a try. Not bad results. I really felt that I was making solid contact and compressing the ball. And, the ball flight was boring with good trajectory. I did, however, blocked a few shots. I guess I wasn't following thru.

It is still working for you?

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

October 25th, 2009, 3:47 pm #2

hijack the thread...well I guess I do/am since you called for Herbert and here I am.

JK - It probably isn't "still working" for Herbert. As he has posted here often he is always jumping around, as he feels this helps him play better. So he probably is onto something else.

The time to make changes and switches is not during the middle of round. The course, the match and the challenge of actually playing reveal the true state of our game and swing....most am's hit it worse on the course / during a match than they do on the range.

There is a BIG need for each golfer to acquire a physical swing that as Bertholy says becomes a "conditioned response," or as I like to say, a swing you don't have to think about - "a swing you will never forget". When you get to that point, you are freed to focus on the playing and enjoyment of the game.

In an event that has a total elapsed time of no more than 1.5 seconds, it is impossible to try and consciously manipulate or change things "on the fly" during the actual execution phase of the swing. Like wise, when on the course, you must "dance with what you brung" and focus on playing. To try and make changes midstream in the middle of match is not advisable. On this there is almost universal agreement amongst a wide variety of teachers, coaches and instructors - Penick, Rotela, Mumford, Bertholy, Valiante, Kostis...to name a few.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

October 25th, 2009, 5:17 pm #3

Thanks for the response. I think it is very helpful to get perspective on this complicated game called "flog". Oh, wait...

I agree to switch during a game is not advisable. And, You should not make changes during a round. But, remember what I said about the playing conditions.

I have been playing for many years. I came to point where I could consistently shoot in the low 90s but could not break the 80s barrier. So, I took many lessons (different post entirely) but did not improve. Switching to other swings gave me hope on lowering my score. Most swing theories had helpful tips and ideas. The one that I replaced my old "go to" swing is Stack and Tilt. I have been playing with this swing off and on for over 2 years now and can bring that swing out at will and be consistent. Now I shoot in the mid-high 80s. But can I do better? Can I break into the 70s?

Symple Swing has tremendous merits and great testimonies by experienced and beginner golfers alike. Trahan is more conventional and reminds us of the basics liking alignment and correction. Both swings have strong merits and flaws.


No one knows my swing, with its strengths and weaknesses, better than me. I think there something out there that is more of a fit for my body type and ability But, how could I know unless I try? I want better. I want that 70s mark.

What do you think?


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 26th, 2009, 2:26 am #4

Hi. Here is something you have said that I thought was interesting
(your previous post) "I have combined Trahan with Simple Swing.."

I played 18 yesterday. Wet, fall conditions and a strong wind made the course almost unplayable. It was very hard to judge how well my swing was working. The back nine was a perfect opportunity to change it up since the scorecard was reflecting the crappy conditions. I remembered what you said about your swing experimentation "Symple-Trahan"?

I Know the SS well and I am comfortable with the swing philosophy. So, I gave the "Herbert Symple Swing Trahan" a try. Not bad results. I really felt that I was making solid contact and compressing the ball. And, the ball flight was boring with good trajectory. I did, however, blocked a few shots. I guess I wasn't following thru.

It is still working for you?
Anybody else watch Mighty Mouse while growing up?

Yep I am still using my version of SS with Trahan though it is really very little SS other then the grip. The best thing about the swing is that it does not hurt my back. I do have problems with my grip in that it seems to slip around between strong and less strong. I guess that I need to work on solidifying my grip. Keeping everything the same is really critical to playing consistently...

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

October 27th, 2009, 1:52 am #5

You can mix and match.

It is funny about what you said earlier that you use SS grip but Trahan setup. I use the Trahan grip and the SS setup. SS "baseball" stance helps me to limit lower body action.

My setup and swing is very simplistic and easy to duplicate. I just swing back to the catchers mitt and up the tree. Swinging around my body or on the path causes me, at times to come inside too much.

Limited play and on the range has shown I can get some power out of my swing with this mix and match of the 2 different systems. We will see if it holds up.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 27th, 2009, 4:27 am #6

hijack the thread...well I guess I do/am since you called for Herbert and here I am.

JK - It probably isn't "still working" for Herbert. As he has posted here often he is always jumping around, as he feels this helps him play better. So he probably is onto something else.

The time to make changes and switches is not during the middle of round. The course, the match and the challenge of actually playing reveal the true state of our game and swing....most am's hit it worse on the course / during a match than they do on the range.

There is a BIG need for each golfer to acquire a physical swing that as Bertholy says becomes a "conditioned response," or as I like to say, a swing you don't have to think about - "a swing you will never forget". When you get to that point, you are freed to focus on the playing and enjoyment of the game.

In an event that has a total elapsed time of no more than 1.5 seconds, it is impossible to try and consciously manipulate or change things "on the fly" during the actual execution phase of the swing. Like wise, when on the course, you must "dance with what you brung" and focus on playing. To try and make changes midstream in the middle of match is not advisable. On this there is almost universal agreement amongst a wide variety of teachers, coaches and instructors - Penick, Rotela, Mumford, Bertholy, Valiante, Kostis...to name a few.
most am's hit it worse on the course / during a match than they do on the range.

I used to believe that but I am not so sure anymore. I see folks hitting the ball solid on the range but way off line and not thinking anything of it. In other words a guy might hit a shot that would be in the left bunker on the course causing great consternation accompanied by club slamming and cursing while on the range it is a 'good' shot. LOL on the other hand I have watched some guys hit some pretty bad shots one after another on the range. I have had days where I hit it better on the course then on the range though I know that in my case most any crappy shots that I might hit on the range will show up on the course at some point.

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 4th, 2007, 3:54 pm

October 27th, 2009, 3:22 pm #7

You can mix and match.

It is funny about what you said earlier that you use SS grip but Trahan setup. I use the Trahan grip and the SS setup. SS "baseball" stance helps me to limit lower body action.

My setup and swing is very simplistic and easy to duplicate. I just swing back to the catchers mitt and up the tree. Swinging around my body or on the path causes me, at times to come inside too much.

Limited play and on the range has shown I can get some power out of my swing with this mix and match of the 2 different systems. We will see if it holds up.
I don't get the concept of mixing and matching swing concepts that so many talk about on this BB. How do you guys know when to give up and add or change something? I read about adding a grip from one teacher and a set up from another and wishing you could shot scores in the 80's. Wouldn't we all be better off following one concept until we are in the 70's and 80's and then feeling like we can create our own swings?

I am so much more in favor of choosing a model and working toward that swing. My good buddy is finally planning to convert to SA swing (Swing Like Moe). He has asked for my help so we are going to work on it together this winter. I am a Swing Like Moe fan and student. My buddy and I have agreed that he needs to pick a method and model and stick with it. He has a hard time staying in the 90's and rarely breaks into the 80's. Until he's in the 70's, there is no way he should choose how to tweak his swing no matter how compelling that Golf Digest tip or some new idea on a BB sounds.

One guy's opinion.

Do most of you have a plan for what you want your swing to look like? When do you decide that adding some new swing idea is and creating your own unique swing is the way to go? Do you tweakers use video to see what you are really doing?

Russ

from 18.0 to 13.2 with NG
from 13.2 to 8.3 with GGA
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

October 27th, 2009, 4:54 pm #8

You can mix and match.

It is funny about what you said earlier that you use SS grip but Trahan setup. I use the Trahan grip and the SS setup. SS "baseball" stance helps me to limit lower body action.

My setup and swing is very simplistic and easy to duplicate. I just swing back to the catchers mitt and up the tree. Swinging around my body or on the path causes me, at times to come inside too much.

Limited play and on the range has shown I can get some power out of my swing with this mix and match of the 2 different systems. We will see if it holds up.
Trahan and SS do have huge differences. SS is a shoulder plane swing and uses the shoulders to whip the club through the ball. It sounds like you are using more of the Trahan arm swing idea? Do you pop up at the finish with all of your weight on the lead side like Trahan recommends or do you fire an fall back like SS?

I had a really hard time with SS. I could do it at times but never for very long and when I did get it 'right' my lead hip and knee would hurt and my back would hurt also. I did hit the ball far using that system when I got it right. I actually think that SS was the most difficult swing to perform of any that I tried. I suspect that a large part of that is all of the training that I did for so long on shifting weight and finishing on the lead side. Possibly SS is easier for someone who starts out as a beginner using it...

My mental problem now is with the grip. LOL, I have to figure out if the SS lead hand in the palm works better then a more conventional grip. Also, just how strong do I want the lead hand? With the 3 finger overlap it becomes difficult to keep the trail hand in SA alignment when the lead hand gets a little weaker. It seems that for me there are a lot of grips that work well with this swing it just a matter of sticking with one or another!

I am really happy with the swing overall though. I have modified the posture a bit to protect my back by standing closer to the ball and more upright. Other then that the swing idea is pretty much what Trahan preaches.

Regards, Herbert
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

October 27th, 2009, 5:58 pm #9

My past and current swing(s) has always been a combination of shoulders and arms. My shoulders give me the power and arms for trajectory/path. If I just use my arms, I suffer a bit in distance and become erratic when I crank up the power.

SS also has caused me pain with the back. In order to alleviate some of the stress, I don't exaggerate the setup/stance and I let me rear hip turn in the back swing. I also do 15 minute stretching exercises before every round. Stretching has helped my back tremendously.

I was never able to handle the SS strong grip. It is much easier for me just to do a standard, neutral grip. The biggest reason I didn't stay with SS is that my driver distance and accuracy was terrible. Irons shots were pretty decent.




Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

October 27th, 2009, 6:16 pm #10

I don't get the concept of mixing and matching swing concepts that so many talk about on this BB. How do you guys know when to give up and add or change something? I read about adding a grip from one teacher and a set up from another and wishing you could shot scores in the 80's. Wouldn't we all be better off following one concept until we are in the 70's and 80's and then feeling like we can create our own swings?

I am so much more in favor of choosing a model and working toward that swing. My good buddy is finally planning to convert to SA swing (Swing Like Moe). He has asked for my help so we are going to work on it together this winter. I am a Swing Like Moe fan and student. My buddy and I have agreed that he needs to pick a method and model and stick with it. He has a hard time staying in the 90's and rarely breaks into the 80's. Until he's in the 70's, there is no way he should choose how to tweak his swing no matter how compelling that Golf Digest tip or some new idea on a BB sounds.

One guy's opinion.

Do most of you have a plan for what you want your swing to look like? When do you decide that adding some new swing idea is and creating your own unique swing is the way to go? Do you tweakers use video to see what you are really doing?

Russ

from 18.0 to 13.2 with NG
from 13.2 to 8.3 with GGA
"Mix and Match" is probably a poor choice of words. But, you would have to agree that every person has their own unique swing signature. I use Stack and Tilt quite a bit yet my swing never remotely resembled Baddeley or Weir when they were using it.

"Swing Like Moe" is the perfect person to answer this question. His swing is based on what he can do physically.

Quote
Like
Share