Back to strict IMA, & The Golf Fix show on TV

Back to strict IMA, & The Golf Fix show on TV

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 18th, 2010, 12:34 pm #1

I knew I had gotten away from the IMA grip and swing but had not realized the extent of it. I always tend to make gradual unconscious changes towards whatever feels more comfortable. Then at some point the ball is no longer behaving, so I start looking for answers. Usually my line of thinking goes something like "Well, IMA (or whatever) is not working right, so let's see what (NG, GGA, cg Instructor, etc.) has to say on the problem." Of course, the original method is not working because I've accidentally on purpose migrated away from it.

Just this past weekend I realized my attempts to become more GGA-like had thrown me off-plane. And I could not find "it" with any reasonable amount of effort. I remembered what the IMA motion was like, reviewed the DVD, and tried it. Voila, some wonderful contact and accuracy. So then I'm trying to remember how I got off the IMA bandwagon. I felt I had been losing distance and had a tough time getting any kind of lag at all. Not pro level lag like some of you are working towards, but any kind of decent lag. Well, I think I learned some things in search of a cure, which will probably apply to my IMA lag, so I'm going back. In any event, with IMA I know where my golf ball is going, and that in itself is enough reason for me.

So last night, out of complete boredom I decided to watch The Golf Fix with Michael Breed on The Golf Channel. He gave a video lesson to a golfer who had terrible lag. He almost had *anti-lag*! Anyway, Breed talked about something I had never thought about other than from a comfort standpoint. Short versus long thumb, and the angle of the club to the lead hand. That mysterious glow in the sky last evening was the lightbulb over my head as I watched the recording of the show.

If you hold the club in the lead hand at much of an angle, you can't get to 90* at the top! Which kills distance. Doh! Double Doh!! I had been using one of the older NG lead hand holds, in which the club angles across the palm. Why? Near as I can figure, because it felt good. Easy to swing on plane, etc. Yeah, but with no leverage. Then I compounded my problem by marrying that hold to a different swing instruction. No wonder I couldn't find "it".

Now I'm back to re-learning Scott's lead hand hold. It feels a lot more powerful and easy to get through the ball with some snap.

Of course, now all my grips (handles) feel like they are the wrong size.

It never ends, does it?
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gsw
Joined: July 27th, 2000, 11:22 pm

May 19th, 2010, 11:06 am #2

I still think that IMA is the most complete SA system if a golfer is going to take one of the SA systems and do it exactly as it is taught.


Stan
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 19th, 2010, 12:05 pm #3

If IMA had better and more detailed DVDs, regional schools, and "stuff", like a couple of the other methods, it would be super. I really do think it is the easiest SA swing to do. But the instructional materials are not the best.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

May 19th, 2010, 12:18 pm #4

I knew I had gotten away from the IMA grip and swing but had not realized the extent of it. I always tend to make gradual unconscious changes towards whatever feels more comfortable. Then at some point the ball is no longer behaving, so I start looking for answers. Usually my line of thinking goes something like "Well, IMA (or whatever) is not working right, so let's see what (NG, GGA, cg Instructor, etc.) has to say on the problem." Of course, the original method is not working because I've accidentally on purpose migrated away from it.

Just this past weekend I realized my attempts to become more GGA-like had thrown me off-plane. And I could not find "it" with any reasonable amount of effort. I remembered what the IMA motion was like, reviewed the DVD, and tried it. Voila, some wonderful contact and accuracy. So then I'm trying to remember how I got off the IMA bandwagon. I felt I had been losing distance and had a tough time getting any kind of lag at all. Not pro level lag like some of you are working towards, but any kind of decent lag. Well, I think I learned some things in search of a cure, which will probably apply to my IMA lag, so I'm going back. In any event, with IMA I know where my golf ball is going, and that in itself is enough reason for me.

So last night, out of complete boredom I decided to watch The Golf Fix with Michael Breed on The Golf Channel. He gave a video lesson to a golfer who had terrible lag. He almost had *anti-lag*! Anyway, Breed talked about something I had never thought about other than from a comfort standpoint. Short versus long thumb, and the angle of the club to the lead hand. That mysterious glow in the sky last evening was the lightbulb over my head as I watched the recording of the show.

If you hold the club in the lead hand at much of an angle, you can't get to 90* at the top! Which kills distance. Doh! Double Doh!! I had been using one of the older NG lead hand holds, in which the club angles across the palm. Why? Near as I can figure, because it felt good. Easy to swing on plane, etc. Yeah, but with no leverage. Then I compounded my problem by marrying that hold to a different swing instruction. No wonder I couldn't find "it".

Now I'm back to re-learning Scott's lead hand hold. It feels a lot more powerful and easy to get through the ball with some snap.

Of course, now all my grips (handles) feel like they are the wrong size.

It never ends, does it?
trying GGA you were more off plane.

Long thumb? Is that what you are using now? I couldn't tell from post.

I use long thumb and a couple months ago I was at the range and the pro next to me was giving this gall a lesson and he kept telling her to "close that gap" between her thumb and her hand - that way she will hit the ball harder - I got his attention behind her back and showed him mine and he made this funny face and mouthed "No Way". So then then I point Babe Ruth like down range and bomb one 290....look at him, point to my grip and shrug my shoulders...I love my grip.

I migrate away from basics too..one of the things that migrates for me is address position. With driver especially I tend to play the ball back to far. I have a pretty solid routine for ensuring this doesn't happen, but sometimes when I get rushed, it happens, and then it is banana ball time!



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

May 19th, 2010, 1:11 pm #5

I was using a long thumb, but the way Breed described it, the angle and leverage issue is more about how far the thumb reaches past the knuckle of the index finger. When the club angles across the hand, the thumb is closer to the index finger knuckle.

My problem all started as an attempt to fix a slight outside-in path. Which is my early season flaw every year.

I was using a diagonal grip (old NG type) but trying to swing with more club (arm) rotation, to get and be on plane. The rotation might or might not be GGA but it was the way I was interpreting it. So I had a mismatched grip and swing. I don't quite understand some of swing positions in GGA. There seems to be more rotation in the arms than with IMA. Not a huge amount more, but some. What I was doing felt good. But my contact was unreliable. I have the new DVD coming. But as of now, I'll probably just look at it and set it aside.
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

May 19th, 2010, 2:00 pm #6

trying GGA you were more off plane.

Long thumb? Is that what you are using now? I couldn't tell from post.

I use long thumb and a couple months ago I was at the range and the pro next to me was giving this gall a lesson and he kept telling her to "close that gap" between her thumb and her hand - that way she will hit the ball harder - I got his attention behind her back and showed him mine and he made this funny face and mouthed "No Way". So then then I point Babe Ruth like down range and bomb one 290....look at him, point to my grip and shrug my shoulders...I love my grip.

I migrate away from basics too..one of the things that migrates for me is address position. With driver especially I tend to play the ball back to far. I have a pretty solid routine for ensuring this doesn't happen, but sometimes when I get rushed, it happens, and then it is banana ball time!



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
I had my own epiphany this weekend. Lately, I've been struggling to get my hands ahead of the ball at impact ... trying all kinds of goofy things to make it happen. I would find a technique that worked, but only for a few days, and then on to the next, and so on. It suddenly hit me on Friday night that I just wasn't holding the angles long enough into the DS.

On Saturday I played with the thought of keeping the trail arm and wrist bent as long as possible into the DS, and getting my trail elbow in front of the hip. Bingo, I was taking divots in front of the ball with all of my irons including the 3 iron. The ball was flying straight and long and I shot a 76, one of my best rounds of this season.

So, when I start to struggle, the answer doesn't lie in the stylistic things like grip thumb length, index finger knuckle pressure, etc. I've got to go back to the basics and work on angle retention. That's where the secret really lies.

I'm looking forward to having some time to get to the range and hit balls out of a sand trap ... working on taking post impact divots. Doug's advice here, and the sand drills Peter posted from The Impact Zone are just the ticket. I'm thinking of building myself a little sand box so I can practice this hitting into a net in my yard.

And speaking of nets, I just got the new BirdieBall 4X net. I would highly recommend it. I had their 3X net which was very good. The netting never gave out ... it was the fiberglass poles that would eventually split. I replaced each of the pole segments at least twice before I got tired of it. Granted, I put in excess of 700 hours on it before switching. This new 4X net has a coiled steel frame wrapped in nylon. It folds into a 2.5' circle and stores in a small bag. It only takes a minute to fold up (once you get the hang of it.) But the setup is a dream. Just take it out of its little nylon bag and it unfurls into a fully erect net in a few seconds. No more poles to break, and the netting is even sturdier than the 3X model. This companies customer service is also excellent.
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Joined: September 10th, 2003, 10:52 am

May 19th, 2010, 6:19 pm #7

I knew I had gotten away from the IMA grip and swing but had not realized the extent of it. I always tend to make gradual unconscious changes towards whatever feels more comfortable. Then at some point the ball is no longer behaving, so I start looking for answers. Usually my line of thinking goes something like "Well, IMA (or whatever) is not working right, so let's see what (NG, GGA, cg Instructor, etc.) has to say on the problem." Of course, the original method is not working because I've accidentally on purpose migrated away from it.

Just this past weekend I realized my attempts to become more GGA-like had thrown me off-plane. And I could not find "it" with any reasonable amount of effort. I remembered what the IMA motion was like, reviewed the DVD, and tried it. Voila, some wonderful contact and accuracy. So then I'm trying to remember how I got off the IMA bandwagon. I felt I had been losing distance and had a tough time getting any kind of lag at all. Not pro level lag like some of you are working towards, but any kind of decent lag. Well, I think I learned some things in search of a cure, which will probably apply to my IMA lag, so I'm going back. In any event, with IMA I know where my golf ball is going, and that in itself is enough reason for me.

So last night, out of complete boredom I decided to watch The Golf Fix with Michael Breed on The Golf Channel. He gave a video lesson to a golfer who had terrible lag. He almost had *anti-lag*! Anyway, Breed talked about something I had never thought about other than from a comfort standpoint. Short versus long thumb, and the angle of the club to the lead hand. That mysterious glow in the sky last evening was the lightbulb over my head as I watched the recording of the show.

If you hold the club in the lead hand at much of an angle, you can't get to 90* at the top! Which kills distance. Doh! Double Doh!! I had been using one of the older NG lead hand holds, in which the club angles across the palm. Why? Near as I can figure, because it felt good. Easy to swing on plane, etc. Yeah, but with no leverage. Then I compounded my problem by marrying that hold to a different swing instruction. No wonder I couldn't find "it".

Now I'm back to re-learning Scott's lead hand hold. It feels a lot more powerful and easy to get through the ball with some snap.

Of course, now all my grips (handles) feel like they are the wrong size.

It never ends, does it?
Snowman you just described me.Stay with one and make it better(Words I never Lived by).
Last edited by IMALongballer on May 19th, 2010, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 20th, 2010, 2:14 pm #8

I had my own epiphany this weekend. Lately, I've been struggling to get my hands ahead of the ball at impact ... trying all kinds of goofy things to make it happen. I would find a technique that worked, but only for a few days, and then on to the next, and so on. It suddenly hit me on Friday night that I just wasn't holding the angles long enough into the DS.

On Saturday I played with the thought of keeping the trail arm and wrist bent as long as possible into the DS, and getting my trail elbow in front of the hip. Bingo, I was taking divots in front of the ball with all of my irons including the 3 iron. The ball was flying straight and long and I shot a 76, one of my best rounds of this season.

So, when I start to struggle, the answer doesn't lie in the stylistic things like grip thumb length, index finger knuckle pressure, etc. I've got to go back to the basics and work on angle retention. That's where the secret really lies.

I'm looking forward to having some time to get to the range and hit balls out of a sand trap ... working on taking post impact divots. Doug's advice here, and the sand drills Peter posted from The Impact Zone are just the ticket. I'm thinking of building myself a little sand box so I can practice this hitting into a net in my yard.

And speaking of nets, I just got the new BirdieBall 4X net. I would highly recommend it. I had their 3X net which was very good. The netting never gave out ... it was the fiberglass poles that would eventually split. I replaced each of the pole segments at least twice before I got tired of it. Granted, I put in excess of 700 hours on it before switching. This new 4X net has a coiled steel frame wrapped in nylon. It folds into a 2.5' circle and stores in a small bag. It only takes a minute to fold up (once you get the hang of it.) But the setup is a dream. Just take it out of its little nylon bag and it unfurls into a fully erect net in a few seconds. No more poles to break, and the netting is even sturdier than the 3X model. This companies customer service is also excellent.
It really is that simple.

Peter
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Joined: December 5th, 2002, 1:33 pm

May 20th, 2010, 10:27 pm #9

I was using a long thumb, but the way Breed described it, the angle and leverage issue is more about how far the thumb reaches past the knuckle of the index finger. When the club angles across the hand, the thumb is closer to the index finger knuckle.

My problem all started as an attempt to fix a slight outside-in path. Which is my early season flaw every year.

I was using a diagonal grip (old NG type) but trying to swing with more club (arm) rotation, to get and be on plane. The rotation might or might not be GGA but it was the way I was interpreting it. So I had a mismatched grip and swing. I don't quite understand some of swing positions in GGA. There seems to be more rotation in the arms than with IMA. Not a huge amount more, but some. What I was doing felt good. But my contact was unreliable. I have the new DVD coming. But as of now, I'll probably just look at it and set it aside.
I think Graves' teaching really revolves around their pvc drill. It's, imo, kind of like Scott's "Impact Backwards Drills" but places emphasis on the positions during the backswing as well. Scott says in his video "Master The Golf Swing" that "it's not about the backswing" but I think Graves' thinks the backswing is very important and they really believe in the pvc drill for this. I've also ordered their new dvd and ebook although I can't really say whether I will follow them or not. I think I may be getting a little too old to accomplish all that I would like to. Should have started many years ago, lol.
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

May 21st, 2010, 11:53 am #10

It really is that simple.

Peter
Looked at the video of my swing in the library which was "pre dog's hind leg". Big difference as compared to "post dog's hind leg":



I see all kinds of things in that video that have gone away now....

This was when I was doing NG golf and using the "straight line set-up"...interesting impact position, a whole lot of bad things going on, but to stay on topic, look how far away from my trail hip my trail elbow is and how my trail arm has almost no hind leg, shoulders have rolled more open than the hips...



Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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