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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

February 10th, 2011, 7:09 pm #1

Here is a look at DJ Trahan on the left and Dustin Johnson on the right:


I posted this image here earlier. I did not think that there would be any question that DJ's swing is easier on the back but Peter seems to indicate that he believes otherwise. My reasoning is that the twist in the spine in Dustin's swing is something that is not going to work very well for someone with a bad back or probably anyone over 40... Or maybe 25? I know that I can use an arm swing like DJ is using and swing all day with no problems.

Anyway it would be interesting to here Peter's reasoning and also anyone else's opinion!

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

February 10th, 2011, 8:09 pm #2

unable to find the reference, sorry about that. I remember reading something about this somewhere in a study or a blog where they mention this very thing....that an arms swing can actually be worse...because the arms are supplying most the force, the back is "working harder" to support the force....with more of integrated, rotary and "chain action" move of legs first, then hips, then shoulders, then arms, and finally hands - that this swing ala proper sequencing, the body stays more in balance and less issues for back and shoulders.

Dr Wells has also conducted a study that blew away the myth about core strength contributing to better swings. He found that a strong core doesn't correlate directly to increased club head speed or better ball striking...BUT what he did find was that those with better core strength did have a n much lower incidence of back issues, AND especially lower back pain and problems.

Kevin

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
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gsw
Joined: July 27th, 2000, 11:22 pm

February 15th, 2011, 5:48 am #3

Here is a look at DJ Trahan on the left and Dustin Johnson on the right:


I posted this image here earlier. I did not think that there would be any question that DJ's swing is easier on the back but Peter seems to indicate that he believes otherwise. My reasoning is that the twist in the spine in Dustin's swing is something that is not going to work very well for someone with a bad back or probably anyone over 40... Or maybe 25? I know that I can use an arm swing like DJ is using and swing all day with no problems.

Anyway it would be interesting to here Peter's reasoning and also anyone else's opinion!

Regards, Herbert
If this were on facebook I would click on like. I have a very bad back that is fused from S1 to L3 and the Trahan swing has really helped my swing and lowered my pain level. I can swing sorta like DJ does but if I make even one swing like Justin does I will be back in the hospital. The key thing for me when swinging a golf club is to keep the fused part of my back as flat and still as I can. The Trahan swing seems to help me do that.

PS:

It warmed up to 50 today and I played 9 holes and shot a 37 with 2 brides and three bogeys and four pars. The golf I played in Florida helped me stay sharp and I am ready to hit the ground running this spring.




Stan
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Joined: October 11th, 2001, 7:22 pm

February 15th, 2011, 12:44 pm #4

Here is a look at DJ Trahan on the left and Dustin Johnson on the right:


I posted this image here earlier. I did not think that there would be any question that DJ's swing is easier on the back but Peter seems to indicate that he believes otherwise. My reasoning is that the twist in the spine in Dustin's swing is something that is not going to work very well for someone with a bad back or probably anyone over 40... Or maybe 25? I know that I can use an arm swing like DJ is using and swing all day with no problems.

Anyway it would be interesting to here Peter's reasoning and also anyone else's opinion!

Regards, Herbert
this swing sequence:



Peter mentioned how my Pelvis moves away from the ball and the hunching may cause back problems later on. Often after a session my lower back and sometimes my upper back between my shoulder blades would be sore. Notice how much I look like DJ Trahan.

After a few days practice on keeping my lower back "straighter" I shot this sequence which shows a much better spine angle. I commented at the time that my lower back was sore while hitting, but the next day none at all:



No Dustin Johnson for sure, but you can see more hips, and an improvement in the angle, and that was only after a few days work. The increased forward lean and maintenance of my spine angle has been my main focus of practice all winter long...now when I swing or practice I have no pain...also, practicing my putting sticking my butt out more with flat back I can practice as long as I want with no pain. Spring is coming ( I actually can see some grass! ), and I can't wait to get outdoors and hit some "real shots" and take some video...when I do I will post it up.

My opinion is that the flat back is better...if you don't keep your back flat, it doesn't matter which type of swing method you use. Stan mentioned he keeps his back flat too.

Kevin
"A Blueprint For Golf Excellence"

Never quit til you have a swing you'll never forget!
Last edited by mcirishman57 on February 15th, 2011, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 30th, 2001, 4:02 pm

February 15th, 2011, 1:23 pm #5

Dustin's mid back is concave while Trahan's is convex. Dustin is using lumbar lordosis which allows for more hip rotation. IMHO, this also represents a more natural and neutral back position and would actually lead to less back stress than the unnatural locked and arched back of Trahan. We don't normally walk around with a stiff and hunched back. Instead we have a more relaxed and concave spine. I don't accept the Trahan theory that a stiff, hunched spine will offer any type of back protection (I'm talking about for people who don't already have serious back problems including fused spines.)
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gsw
Joined: July 27th, 2000, 11:22 pm

February 16th, 2011, 3:56 am #6

That Dustin can hit the ball very far. Oh to be young and strong with a good back again.



Stan
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

February 16th, 2011, 5:45 am #7

Dustin's mid back is concave while Trahan's is convex. Dustin is using lumbar lordosis which allows for more hip rotation. IMHO, this also represents a more natural and neutral back position and would actually lead to less back stress than the unnatural locked and arched back of Trahan. We don't normally walk around with a stiff and hunched back. Instead we have a more relaxed and concave spine. I don't accept the Trahan theory that a stiff, hunched spine will offer any type of back protection (I'm talking about for people who don't already have serious back problems including fused spines.)
I have some issues with Trahan's teaching but I don't recall any mention of a 'stiff, hunched spine'. DJ's lower back is neutral and he is fairly upright which is easier on the back. He also uses a very upright swing plane which is easier on the lower back. Anyway if Trahan's method is better for bad injured backs why would it be worse for normal backs?

I do think that if you are in good shape and have excellent flexibility you can get away with Dustin's swing. There is a lot more danger if you make a mistake in technique though.

Ramblings: I notice some similarity in Dustin's swing with Chuck Quinton's rotary swing. Of course Chuck recommends that a golfer keep his or her abs tight to protect the lower back while making that swing. In my experience this works but such is not needed with Trahan's 'pop tart' swing. Also there is Kelvin's spine engine swing which you have mentioned but it seems to require a golfer to purchase a spine pump in order to be able to perform the swing.

That said I am working really hard on my rather limited version of Dustin's swing and I am hitting it further and straighter then I have in some time. LOL my index has dropped a couple of strokes already! As for my back, knees, hips and so on I would use something similar to Trahan (sans the bowed knees) if that was all that I cared about...

Regards, Herbert
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Joined: April 22nd, 2004, 9:58 pm

February 16th, 2011, 5:48 pm #8

the more stress you place on your lower back.
Particularly with twisting movement. That is
why when my back goes out it usually happens
when I am doing something simple like taking
a grocery bag out of a rear car seat.

It's only logical.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 17th, 2011, 3:19 pm #9

I first hurt my lower back in my 20s bending forward over a bed to pick up a t-shirt. In the years since then and from multiple therapists I've learned that the problem was not bending over but not having the flexibility and strength to accommodate the movement. So while it's true that if you never move you'll never get a movement related injury, if you make sure your body has the ability to accommodate and support the movement you are unlikely to get one.

In my case that means 'core' strength which is not just abdominal (upper, lower and oblique) but also lower back strength as well along with flexibility. If you can't sit on the floor and rotate your pelvis so that your back is vertical and flat then you're missing needed flexibility.

Peter
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Joined: January 13th, 2001, 8:30 am

February 17th, 2011, 8:44 pm #10

But as you well know bending over the wrong way and picking up something heavy will damage your back regardless of how good of shape you are in. The trick I think is to combine good technique with good conditioning.

My back hurts a lot from standing still for more then a few minutes. Also from walking around. And no, good posture does not seem to have any effect on this. Interestingly I have found that when my back hurts from standing around if I practice my new swinging motion slowly with my weight back and my lower back in neutral it makes my low back feel much better. As long as do not over do the hip stretch or the spine angle...

Regards, Herbert
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