Reformed Baptist
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January 28th, 2016, 7:44 pm #21

John81:24174 wrote:
Reformed Baptist:24173 wrote: That's good to note sadly though there are many who try to have a foot in both camps not letting go of dispensationalism but also claiming to be reformed or Calvinistic (as if Calvinism is the mere acceptance of 5 points)
I've encountered that strange mix. It seems they want to cling to some of those things they are used to while adding some aspects of Reformed theology. Much of this is probably done out of ignorance while I suspect some are Burger King Christians who want their Christianity their way.
Probably but there are those who cannot use ignorance as an excuse and I have in mind some well known theologians/ pastors that don't need to be named here but who are doing tremendous harm to clear cut definitions in their attempts to accepted by the reformed community.
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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David
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January 28th, 2016, 10:36 pm #22

Reformed Baptist:24175 wrote:
John81:24174 wrote:
Reformed Baptist:24173 wrote: That's good to note sadly though there are many who try to have a foot in both camps not letting go of dispensationalism but also claiming to be reformed or Calvinistic (as if Calvinism is the mere acceptance of 5 points)
I've encountered that strange mix. It seems they want to cling to some of those things they are used to while adding some aspects of Reformed theology. Much of this is probably done out of ignorance while I suspect some are Burger King Christians who want their Christianity their way.
Probably but there are those who cannot use ignorance as an excuse and I have in mind some well known theologians/ pastors that don't need to be named here but who are doing tremendous harm to clear cut definitions in their attempts to accepted by the reformed community.
Don't forget that Darby himself was an extreme Calvinist.

Or at least pretended to be. B W Newton thought he was a Jesuit.
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Ask Mr. Religion
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January 29th, 2016, 5:29 am #23

David:24176 wrote:B W Newton thought he was a Jesuit.
Heh! Those pesky Jesuits.  :innocent:
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Reformed Baptist
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January 29th, 2016, 8:31 am #24

David:24176 wrote:
Don't forget that Darby himself was an extreme Calvinist.

Or at least pretended to be. B W Newton thought he was a Jesuit.
What's an 'extreme Calvinist'?

Darby was a man whose views were in flux, morphing from one thing to another and it would be very surprising therefore if there wasn't some degree of inconsistency within his theology - however it would be somewhat anachronistic to describe him as dispensational - probably more accurate to discribe him as proto-dispensensational  :yes:
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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DrWhofan1
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February 2nd, 2016, 3:49 pm #25

This is the primary reason why there are those who are fullt reformed in the church, and those who would tend to see themselves under the label of calvinism itself.

Not all Calivinists are reformed, but also all Reformed are calvinists!
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DrWhofan1
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February 2nd, 2016, 3:51 pm #26

many of them, like myself, have come out from churches and backgrounds that were a combination of some arminian, or charasmatic, or Dispy, and especially to those like myself who still are baptists, we have to relearn and reunderstand the teaching of the scriptures.

That would be different from one who was always raised up and taught from reform perspectives since salvation...
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Reformed Baptist
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February 5th, 2016, 1:19 pm #27

DrWhofan1:24214 wrote:This is the primary reason why there are those who are fullt reformed in the church, and those who would tend to see themselves under the label of calvinism itself.

Not all Calivinists are reformed, but also all Reformed are calvinists!
Errr, all Calvinists are reformed if all words have any meaning whatsoever.
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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Markus Leoninus
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July 12th, 2018, 6:00 am #28

Mark Dever's observations are pretty much spot-on, I think, as far as how Calvinism has caught on so well in our day.

It was Dr. Martyn Lloyd-jones in his expository series on Romans, Pink's book The Sovereignty of God, R.C. Sproul's book Chosen by God, and Thomas Nettles' book By His Grace and for His Glory on the doctrines of grace, and the history of them in Baptist life, which convinced me a few decades ago that what is generally referred to as "five-point Calvinism"... by far better termed the biblical doctrine of God's saving grace... is just the true exposition of what Scripture teaches on salvation.

We know Calvin didn't invent the system of doctrine that bears his name, whether soteriologically or in any other area of significant biblical teaching. He was simply one who, along with other Reformers, restated these things with extraordinary eloquence, zeal, and power. Pretty much all the Puritans followed suit. Yet Augustine taught much that accords with "Calvinism" a thousand years before Calvin was born.
The main thing is that Paul, the prophets, and the Lord Jesus Christ all taught what is nicknamed "Calvinism", but which is verily the truth of God in Christ, as Spurgeon observed in one of his great sermons on the matter.

I would make an observation based on my own experience.
It is often the case when God, through Scripture, and usually through a solid expositor of Scripture, reveals to a person the depths of the depravity of human hearts that God's free and sovereign grace becomes a precious truth, and what is colloquially called "Calvinism" makes an awful lot of sense. I didn't mention Augustus Strong earlier, but that Baptist theologian was also very instrumental in my transition from Arminianism to Calvinism. In fact, by the time I got through Strong's section in his Systematic Theology on the subject of sin, broadly speaking, the effect was quite overwhelming.
In a word, I knew that the only reason... the only reason... why I ever came to saving faith in Christ was because God in His free and sovereign grace chose me to partake of His love, mercy and Grace through the Person and Work of His Son alone, applied with effectual power by God the Holy Spirit.
It simply could be for no other logical or spiritual reason whatsoever.

Anyone who is currently Arminian, but who at some point reads material by the authors Dever mentions, with Bible in hand, and keen to who and what they are if left to their sinful selves, will almost certainly become a "Calvinist". They may be a closet one for a time, or they may come forth with a bit of fiery zeal in the beginning, both barrels blasting at their Arminian acquaintances... lol.
But any who tries to resist the transition, when the Spirit of God is involved in the process of illumination... well, these will suffer a kind of cognitive dissonance that will leave them very uncomfortable.
Yeah, there are some "moderate Calvinists" out there. And they seem to think that is a correct medium or balance between what they consider to be doctrinal extremes. But logical consistency as well as the forthrightness of the Bible itself teaches that salvation is altogether of God's free and sovereign grace. And the Bible insists we align our minds and hearts with these fundamental soteriological facts, fully, without compromise.

But we should doubtless never think of Calvinism as simply what is "cool" ("kewl") in present day evangelicalism; or, at least, we should recognize the dangers inherent within the upper echelons of evangelical society where some folk embrace, or appear to embrace, something because it seems trendy or "cool" to them, rather than perceiving it simply as a genuine system of theological thought that is meant to be intensely personal and practical rather than merely, mostly, or even partly hip. Perhaps many jump on such a bandwagon. But simply because the Bible teaches the doctrine of God's free and sovereign grace... that is more than reason enough, and really the only sound and solid reason, to accept what is nicknamed Calvinism.

True revival, an outpouring of God's Spirit within the realm of professing Christendom today, to accompany all our evangelical outreaches, along the lines of what occured under Whitefield and Edwards, only geographically and culturally more expansive, is what will do more than anything else to bring professing Christians in general to the truth of God's pure, free, sovereign, saving, sanctifying, and ultimately glorifying grace in the Lord Jesus Christ. And this is the only thing that will convert folk on a mass level.
Beware of phony Calvinists, Pharisees that thumb the nose, willfully blind to their own profound wretchedness.
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