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Reformed Baptist
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November 18th, 2016, 9:15 am #11

DrWhofan1:25680 wrote:[So you would use the Englishversions themselves to base your sermon messages on?
Well, let me see...

(1) I preach in English
(2) I preach to an English congregation
(3) I have a faithful translation of the bible in English
(4) I need my congregation to be able to read for themselves the truths I preach in the Bible

So yes, of course, I use an English Bible in my preaching and I preach from an English text - I would be an utter fool to do otherwise. I have asked you before to demonstrate a single doctrine, or a single text of Scripture, that I cannot faithfully exegete from an English translation and none has been forthcoming so on what grounds can you be so shocked?

Let me be very clear on this point, the preachers job is not just to proclaim the truth but to equip his congregation to read the bible for themselves and the preacher who stands in the pulpit constantly saying 'in the Greek it says....' is closing the bible to the church and implying that they can't understand it without his help!

The Greek and hebrew Exegesis stays in the study and I preach in English.

However, you seem to have skipped the point - the is a huge difference between asserting that one uses the texts of the bible in their original languages and one uses the originals. The later is to state that we have access to the autographs themselves (which we do not).
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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DrWhofan1
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November 18th, 2016, 2:50 pm #12

I think most would use the English versions for most oftheir research and studies, but there are good Greek/Hebrew study tools also avalable, as my pastor has 2 earned Phd, and he does much of hisstudies in different English versions, but also see gets further insights, nuggets he calls them, fromuse of Lexicons, dictionaries, etc!


He would not advocate doing all work from those tools, but doesuse them tolook into some of the "knotty passages" in the Bible!

Who do most Seminaries require hebrew/Greek be learnt and used then?
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Ask Mr. Religion
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November 18th, 2016, 3:59 pm #13

DrWhofan1:25704 wrote: Who do most Seminaries require hebrew/Greek be learnt and used then?
The man called to the ministry should have some facility with the original languages from which our translations spring forth, else he is at the mercy of the "priesthood" of bible translators. Our Lord reminded us that every jot (jod, yodr, iota) and tittle (keraia) remains, so I feel it is my duty as one called to know as much as my abilities can allow about the original languages used by God in His special revelation. Apparently, denominations that sponsored various seminaries would agree that this skill is required for those seeking to serve in these denominations. ;)

But to key off of what RB noted, when a cook prepares a meal, he does not bring out all the pots and pans to the table where the meal is served. Similarly, the minister's wrestling with the sermon text using all the tools and training he has obtained before delivery on Sunday is not something the congregant in the pew needs to be subjected to.
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DrWhofan1
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November 18th, 2016, 7:29 pm #14

I must have misunderstood him then, as I thought that he meant that he just used the English versions and tools for preparing his messages.

RB really was saying that he uses the various tools. but that he keeps his remarks to just what is found in the English version itself?

My pastor does at times quote the Hebrew/Greek word and states them aloud, and usually just gives the definition for them as used in the passage under study.
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Ask Mr. Religion
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November 18th, 2016, 7:53 pm #15

DrWhofan1:25716 wrote:RB really was saying that he uses the various tools. but that he keeps his remarks to just what is found in the English version itself?
Yes, RB was stating that the work done cooking in the kitchen (sermon prep) with special pots and pans (lexicons, grammars, commentaries, etc.) should normally stay in the kitchen, not be brought out when the meal (the sermon) is delivered. Hence, RB noted "The Greek and Hebrew Exegesis stays in the study and I preach in English."

No one disputes the occasional reference to the underlying ancient language of Scripture, when it is very appropriate, but these should be quite rare, most appropriate when one is exhorting from the pulpit on passages claimed to be controversial. On these occasions I simply made passing remarks noting this or that side's opinions and why I am going to treat the passage being exposited accordingly. The key here, is for the minister to not be exhibiting mist in the pulpit, as this always leads to fog in the pews. ;)
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Reformed Baptist
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November 18th, 2016, 8:11 pm #16

Ask Mr. Religion:25722 wrote:
DrWhofan1:25716 wrote:RB really was saying that he uses the various tools. but that he keeps his remarks to just what is found in the English version itself?
Yes, RB was stating that the work done cooking in the kitchen (sermon prep) with special pots and pans (lexicons, grammars, commentaries, etc.) should normally stay in the kitchen, not be brought out when the meal (the sermon) is delivered. Hence, RB noted "The Greek and Hebrew Exegesis stays in the study and I preach in English."

No one disputes the occasional reference to the underlying ancient language of Scripture, when it is very appropriate, but these should be quite rare, most appropriate when one is exhorting from the pulpit on passages claimed to be controversial. On these occasions I simply made passing remarks noting this or that side's opinions and why I am going to treat the passage being exposited accordingly. The key here, is for the minister to not be exhibiting mist in the pulpit, as this always leads to fog in the pews. ;)
Exactly so  :yes:
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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November 19th, 2016, 2:19 pm #17

Reformed Baptist:25724 wrote:
Ask Mr. Religion:25722 wrote:
DrWhofan1:25716 wrote:RB really was saying that he uses the various tools. but that he keeps his remarks to just what is found in the English version itself?
Yes, RB was stating that the work done cooking in the kitchen (sermon prep) with special pots and pans (lexicons, grammars, commentaries, etc.) should normally stay in the kitchen, not be brought out when the meal (the sermon) is delivered. Hence, RB noted "The Greek and Hebrew Exegesis stays in the study and I preach in English."

No one disputes the occasional reference to the underlying ancient language of Scripture, when it is very appropriate, but these should be quite rare, most appropriate when one is exhorting from the pulpit on passages claimed to be controversial. On these occasions I simply made passing remarks noting this or that side's opinions and why I am going to treat the passage being exposited accordingly. The key here, is for the minister to not be exhibiting mist in the pulpit, as this always leads to fog in the pews. ;)
Exactly so :yes:
Sorry for my misunderstanding....

How often do you use commentaries inyour preparation then?

My Pastor has extremely large library, many of them Lexicons, doctionaries, commentaries, but I always jke with him if he ever finds the time toi actual use his Bible!
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Reformed Baptist
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November 19th, 2016, 7:58 pm #18

DrWhofan1:25732 wrote:
Reformed Baptist:25724 wrote:
Ask Mr. Religion:25722 wrote: Yes, RB was stating that the work done cooking in the kitchen (sermon prep) with special pots and pans (lexicons, grammars, commentaries, etc.) should normally stay in the kitchen, not be brought out when the meal (the sermon) is delivered. Hence, RB noted "The Greek and Hebrew Exegesis stays in the study and I preach in English."

No one disputes the occasional reference to the underlying ancient language of Scripture, when it is very appropriate, but these should be quite rare, most appropriate when one is exhorting from the pulpit on passages claimed to be controversial. On these occasions I simply made passing remarks noting this or that side's opinions and why I am going to treat the passage being exposited accordingly. The key here, is for the minister to not be exhibiting mist in the pulpit, as this always leads to fog in the pews. ;)
Exactly so :yes:
Sorry for my misunderstanding....

How often do you use commentaries inyour preparation then?

My Pastor has extremely large library, many of them Lexicons, doctionaries, commentaries, but I always jke with him if he ever finds the time toi actual use his Bible!
Why do you wish to compare me to your pastor?

I, like most people, use commentaries as I need them, but only after I have studied the text for myself and come to a conclusion about what I think it has to say.

I am not sure why you are asking me these questions?
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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DrWhofan1
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November 19th, 2016, 8:52 pm #19

Reformed Baptist:25741 wrote:
DrWhofan1:25732 wrote:
Reformed Baptist:25724 wrote: Exactly so :yes:
Sorry for my misunderstanding....

How often do you use commentaries inyour preparation then?

My Pastor has extremely large library, many of them Lexicons, doctionaries, commentaries, but I always jke with him if he ever finds the time toi actual use his Bible!
Why do you wish to compare me to your pastor?

I, like most people, use commentaries as I need them, but only after I have studied the text for myself and come to a conclusion about what I think it has to say.

I am not sure why you are asking me these questions?
Even though I know that we have had interesting discussions at times, still look at you as being someone can learn from,  as you are very knowledable in Christian and especially reformed areas, so how you prepare and study would interest me, see if can add something to my study time...
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Reformed Baptist
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November 20th, 2016, 5:19 pm #20

I am sorry brother, but I just don't see that. I wish i did, I really do but we have talking over the same handful of subjects over many years and see absolutely no difference in your posts to those you were writing 5 years ago - you're still not supporting your views with Scripture and your still not presenting any meaningful defense of your position - it is all simple assertion. The recent debacle with the EFC is a case in point!

If you truly want to learn from my approach to study then this is lesson one my friend - ground everything in the word of God and before you say anything have the Scripture to back it up - that my friend, is the only lesson I have. We could disagree (and I would be happy to) if I felt you put effort into understanding what you are talking rather then just repeating what others have told you parrot fashion. I would be delighted to disagree with you if I felt you resting in God's word and not just what your pastor tells you it means (though I glad he does tell you what he means).
"George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists." Spurgeon
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