Zanzibar

Burundi, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Rwanda, Somalia, Somaliland, South Sudan, Sudan, Tanzania, Uganda, Zanzibar
TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

30 Jul 2017, 21:33 #51

The problem here (which doesn't apply to Gibraltar and Kosovo) is the "2 FAs representing one country".  Gibraltar and Kosovo are not parts of other countries.  Zanzibar is part of Tanzania, which is already a member.

Anyway, Zanzibar is still on CAF's website (as is Réunion) in the members section.
http://www.cafonline.com/en-us/memberassociations.aspx
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

31 Jul 2017, 07:38 #52

TheRoonBa wrote: The problem here (which doesn't apply to Gibraltar and Kosovo) is the "2 FAs representing one country".  Gibraltar and Kosovo are not parts of other countries.  Zanzibar is part of Tanzania, which is already a member.

Anyway, Zanzibar is still on CAF's website (as is Réunion) in the members section.
http://www.cafonline.com/en-us/memberassociations.aspx
Kosovo is a province of Serbia; Gibraltar part of UK?
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

31 Jul 2017, 10:18 #53

Kosovo is an independent country (to the majority of FIFA members) - not part of Serbia. 
Gibraltar is not part of the UK - it is a dependency of the UK.
Zanzibar is a part of Tanzania with some autonomy.  A bit like Åland in Finland, perhaps, or Nevis or Tobago.  They would not be allowed to join (under CAF rules) because there is already an FA affiliated to FIFA in their country.

There are a few exceptions (the British FAs), but generally, only one FA per country is allowed.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

31 Jul 2017, 10:27 #54

TheRoonBa wrote: Kosovo is an independent country (to the majority of FIFA members) - not part of Serbia. 
Gibraltar is not part of the UK - it is a dependency of the UK.
Zanzibar is a part of Tanzania with some autonomy.  A bit like Åland in Finland, perhaps, or Nevis or Tobago.  They would not be allowed to join (under CAF rules) because there is already an FA affiliated to FIFA in their country.

There are a few exceptions (the British FAs), but generally, only one FA per country is allowed.
Kosovo is not a member of UN.....
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

31 Jul 2017, 17:32 #55

Neither are Taiwan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Macao, Aruba, Curaçao, Bermuda, etc.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

31 Jul 2017, 17:36 #56

nfm24 wrote: Neither are Taiwan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Macao, Aruba, Curaçao, Bermuda, etc.
and Zanzibar and Gibraltar

If no other federation objects membership, I do not see the problem...(in the case of Kosovo and Gibraltar there were serious opponents and yet they were taken on board....)
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

05 Aug 2017, 23:02 #57

pieter wrote: If no other federation objects membership, I do not see the problem...(in the case of Kosovo and Gibraltar there were serious opponents and yet they were taken on board....)
I'd take it a step further and say if less than a majority (or whatever the inverse of a supermajority is) object membership then it's fine. Otherwise you're left with a situation where one or both of the Koreas would get frozen out (or any other 'political issue > sporting membership' situation) and extending that any new situation where most of the world agrees but because one member doesn't (or gets influenced to say they don't) the whole application gets jenga'd.
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

07 Aug 2017, 16:44 #58

The problem, as I mentioned above is that Zanzibar is already part of another country (Tanzania).  Forget the rest of the stuff.

There are no other members of FIFA (with the exception of the 4 British FAs and the 2 Chinese special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau) who are part of another country.  By "part of", I mean, not a dependency or territory.  A physical part of that country.  Every country in the world recognises Zanzibar as a part of Tanzania.

Nevis has competed separately from Saint Kitts in the past - they would face the same problem as Zanzibar in trying to join.  They are part of a country already.
Tasmania, Alaska, Bornholm, Sumatra, Cabinda - these are all part of another country also - the same as Zanzibar is part of Tanzania.  Doesn't matter about the fact they have played as a separate entity in the past.

All the other members mentioned above are NOT parts of other countries.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

07 Aug 2017, 17:25 #59

Kosovo is part of Serbia.....
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

07 Aug 2017, 18:23 #60

The majority of countries disagree that Kosovo is part of Serbia (111-82 in terms of UN members).  For Zanzibar being part of Tanzania, it is 193-0 in favour.
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

07 Aug 2017, 18:26 #61

One could also argue that Israel is not recognised by many Arab states - but the majority of UN states (162-31) do recognise it, and so it is a member.

Palestine is also not recognised by all UN member states, but is recognised by a majority (136-57).
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

07 Aug 2017, 18:28 #62

I am FOR Zanzibar becoming a member of CAF/FIFA - but there is no precedent with similar territories except the 6 I mentioned, which have particular historical reasons for being members.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

08 Aug 2017, 12:38 #63

Regarding vote counts - making it a popularity contest is all very well, but FIFA and the confederations were created to be affiliated to by national associations, so any bonafide country's FA should not be impeded in any way from joining, or have their membership questioned for non-football reasons.  

There have been cases of "unpopular" countries being thrown out of a confederation by a majority vote, e.g. Israel, ROC, Rhodesia, South Africa...

And while Mark is right that there are currently no other examples of FIFA members which are part of another country (except possibly the Dutch contingent), there have certainly been in the past and indeed there have been plenty of FIFA members which were not representative of the whole population of their country (cf the latter two examples in previous paragraph). 

Personally I would like to see a "historical precedent rule", permitting the future membership of countries/territories of the same political status as current FIFA members (excluding the 4 British home nations).   E.g. Bermuda & Cayman Islands are already  members, so Gibraltar and the Falklands are permitted to join (if they want to).   Tahiti is a member, so Martinique can be also (if it wants to), etc.    Otherwise it is just anomalous that some are members and some not.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

17 Nov 2017, 11:28 #64

Zanzibar not in CECAFA cup? why? is it because they are no longer member of CAF?
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

17 Nov 2017, 11:34 #65

What makes you say they are not in the CECAFA Cup?

Djibouti, Eritrea, Somalia and Sudan will not compete.

Libya and Zimbabwe playing as guests.

2 groups of 5:
Group A: Kenya, Libya, Rwanda, Tanzania Mainland, Zanzibar
Group B: Uganda, Zimbabwe, Burundi, Ethiopia, South Sudan
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

17 Nov 2017, 11:57 #66

Even if Zanzibar is not a direct member of CAF, it is still an indirect affiliate of CAF via Tanzania, as before.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

17 Nov 2017, 12:38 #67

nfm24 wrote: Even if Zanzibar is not a direct member of CAF, it is still an indirect affiliate of CAF via Tanzania, as before.
sorry, did not see the complete schedule...good to see them play Libya
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