Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

July 30th, 2017, 5:33 pm #51

The problem here (which doesn't apply to Gibraltar and Kosovo) is the "2 FAs representing one country".  Gibraltar and Kosovo are not parts of other countries.  Zanzibar is part of Tanzania, which is already a member.

Anyway, Zanzibar is still on CAF's website (as is Réunion) in the members section.
http://www.cafonline.com/en-us/memberassociations.aspx
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

July 31st, 2017, 3:38 am #52

TheRoonBa wrote: The problem here (which doesn't apply to Gibraltar and Kosovo) is the "2 FAs representing one country".  Gibraltar and Kosovo are not parts of other countries.  Zanzibar is part of Tanzania, which is already a member.

Anyway, Zanzibar is still on CAF's website (as is Réunion) in the members section.
http://www.cafonline.com/en-us/memberassociations.aspx
Kosovo is a province of Serbia; Gibraltar part of UK?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

July 31st, 2017, 6:18 am #53

Kosovo is an independent country (to the majority of FIFA members) - not part of Serbia. 
Gibraltar is not part of the UK - it is a dependency of the UK.
Zanzibar is a part of Tanzania with some autonomy.  A bit like Åland in Finland, perhaps, or Nevis or Tobago.  They would not be allowed to join (under CAF rules) because there is already an FA affiliated to FIFA in their country.

There are a few exceptions (the British FAs), but generally, only one FA per country is allowed.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

July 31st, 2017, 6:27 am #54

TheRoonBa wrote: Kosovo is an independent country (to the majority of FIFA members) - not part of Serbia. 
Gibraltar is not part of the UK - it is a dependency of the UK.
Zanzibar is a part of Tanzania with some autonomy.  A bit like Åland in Finland, perhaps, or Nevis or Tobago.  They would not be allowed to join (under CAF rules) because there is already an FA affiliated to FIFA in their country.

There are a few exceptions (the British FAs), but generally, only one FA per country is allowed.
Kosovo is not a member of UN.....
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

July 31st, 2017, 1:32 pm #55

Neither are Taiwan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Macao, Aruba, Curaçao, Bermuda, etc.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

July 31st, 2017, 1:36 pm #56

nfm24 wrote: Neither are Taiwan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Macao, Aruba, Curaçao, Bermuda, etc.
and Zanzibar and Gibraltar

If no other federation objects membership, I do not see the problem...(in the case of Kosovo and Gibraltar there were serious opponents and yet they were taken on board....)
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

August 5th, 2017, 7:02 pm #57

pieter wrote: If no other federation objects membership, I do not see the problem...(in the case of Kosovo and Gibraltar there were serious opponents and yet they were taken on board....)
I'd take it a step further and say if less than a majority (or whatever the inverse of a supermajority is) object membership then it's fine. Otherwise you're left with a situation where one or both of the Koreas would get frozen out (or any other 'political issue > sporting membership' situation) and extending that any new situation where most of the world agrees but because one member doesn't (or gets influenced to say they don't) the whole application gets jenga'd.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 7th, 2017, 12:44 pm #58

The problem, as I mentioned above is that Zanzibar is already part of another country (Tanzania).  Forget the rest of the stuff.

There are no other members of FIFA (with the exception of the 4 British FAs and the 2 Chinese special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau) who are part of another country.  By "part of", I mean, not a dependency or territory.  A physical part of that country.  Every country in the world recognises Zanzibar as a part of Tanzania.

Nevis has competed separately from Saint Kitts in the past - they would face the same problem as Zanzibar in trying to join.  They are part of a country already.
Tasmania, Alaska, Bornholm, Sumatra, Cabinda - these are all part of another country also - the same as Zanzibar is part of Tanzania.  Doesn't matter about the fact they have played as a separate entity in the past.

All the other members mentioned above are NOT parts of other countries.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

August 7th, 2017, 1:25 pm #59

Kosovo is part of Serbia.....
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 7th, 2017, 2:23 pm #60

The majority of countries disagree that Kosovo is part of Serbia (111-82 in terms of UN members).  For Zanzibar being part of Tanzania, it is 193-0 in favour.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 7th, 2017, 2:26 pm #61

One could also argue that Israel is not recognised by many Arab states - but the majority of UN states (162-31) do recognise it, and so it is a member.

Palestine is also not recognised by all UN member states, but is recognised by a majority (136-57).
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 7th, 2017, 2:28 pm #62

I am FOR Zanzibar becoming a member of CAF/FIFA - but there is no precedent with similar territories except the 6 I mentioned, which have particular historical reasons for being members.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

August 8th, 2017, 8:38 am #63

Regarding vote counts - making it a popularity contest is all very well, but FIFA and the confederations were created to be affiliated to by national associations, so any bonafide country's FA should not be impeded in any way from joining, or have their membership questioned for non-football reasons.  

There have been cases of "unpopular" countries being thrown out of a confederation by a majority vote, e.g. Israel, ROC, Rhodesia, South Africa...

And while Mark is right that there are currently no other examples of FIFA members which are part of another country (except possibly the Dutch contingent), there have certainly been in the past and indeed there have been plenty of FIFA members which were not representative of the whole population of their country (cf the latter two examples in previous paragraph). 

Personally I would like to see a "historical precedent rule", permitting the future membership of countries/territories of the same political status as current FIFA members (excluding the 4 British home nations).   E.g. Bermuda & Cayman Islands are already  members, so Gibraltar and the Falklands are permitted to join (if they want to).   Tahiti is a member, so Martinique can be also (if it wants to), etc.    Otherwise it is just anomalous that some are members and some not.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

November 17th, 2017, 6:28 am #64

Zanzibar not in CECAFA cup? why? is it because they are no longer member of CAF?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

November 17th, 2017, 6:34 am #65

What makes you say they are not in the CECAFA Cup?

Djibouti, Eritrea, Somalia and Sudan will not compete.

Libya and Zimbabwe playing as guests.

2 groups of 5:
Group A: Kenya, Libya, Rwanda, Tanzania Mainland, Zanzibar
Group B: Uganda, Zimbabwe, Burundi, Ethiopia, South Sudan
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

November 17th, 2017, 6:57 am #66

Even if Zanzibar is not a direct member of CAF, it is still an indirect affiliate of CAF via Tanzania, as before.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

November 17th, 2017, 7:38 am #67

nfm24 wrote: Even if Zanzibar is not a direct member of CAF, it is still an indirect affiliate of CAF via Tanzania, as before.
sorry, did not see the complete schedule...good to see them play Libya
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

December 5th, 2017, 8:00 am #68

Zanzibar just beat Rwanda 3-1 in their first game at the 2017 Cecafa Cup. With Tuvalu also winning, is this the best day in non-fifa history??
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

December 5th, 2017, 4:05 pm #69

What about 7th July 2013, when Martinique beat Canada on the same day as the Tynwald Hill tournament?
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Joined: January 20th, 2009, 11:52 pm

January 1st, 2018, 5:33 am #70

I'm stepping on Luca's territory here. I think this was from the CECAFA Cup.

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 1st, 2018, 9:44 am #71

Interesting that the goalkeeper's kit seems to be a different manufacturer than the outfield players.  Another one in the eye for the shirt collectors.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 1st, 2018, 9:59 am #72

nfm24 wrote:Interesting that the goalkeeper's kit seems to be a different manufacturer than the outfield players.  Another one in the eye for the shirt collectors.
Unless they're buying from Wycombe Wanderers I don't think GK kits are as prized. I guess they still count as a shirt of [national team] but they're usually even more run to template than regular kits (see the Nike ones here). Besides, from the looks of most collectors it seems to be the first part of that last sentence which matters the most.

As for the split, I'm guessing that happens a bit with less well-off teams, it's obviously a previous Zanzibar design that they felt might as well be re-used rather than shell out for a new kit, or maybe AMS just don't make GK kits...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 1st, 2018, 10:10 am #73

The goalkeeper shirt looks more like a knock-off from ebay or a dodgy market seller.   Perhaps the goalie preferred short sleeves, and the "official" ones had long sleeves?
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Joined: January 20th, 2009, 11:52 pm

January 1st, 2018, 10:16 am #74

I think AMS is one guy - a design student from Australia. That he can even kit out national teams is an accomplishment in itself. 
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 1st, 2018, 10:24 am #75

Yes I would have thought the "preferred partners" would have had the market sewn up with exclusivity rights.  But perhaps the big boys don't bother with the niche teams where they don't see any sufficient revenue.
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Joined: February 9th, 2011, 2:58 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 5:19 am #76

nfm24 wrote: Interesting that the goalkeeper's kit seems to be a different manufacturer than the outfield players.  Another one in the eye for the shirt collectors.
A similar situation occurred during the 2011 Pacific Games, when Kiribati's goalkeeper wore a shirt with the logo of the Argentine Football Association

Another famous case was when the members of the Netherlands national team, at the 1974 World Cup, wore an Adidas kit, while their captain, Johan Cruijff, wore a two-striped shirt for sponsorship reasons.
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

January 3rd, 2018, 8:00 am #77

Blue Lou wrote: I'm stepping on Luca's territory here. I think this was from the CECAFA Cup.

Absolutely love the sign they’re holding. Gotta love that!
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 10:55 am #78

CAF has no problem with Zanzibar - otherwise they wouldn't give them separate representation in their club competitions.  They only rejected them because they thought they wouldn't ever become a FIFA member.

Zanzibar could quite feasibly be content with the CECAFA Cup every year, or friendly matches.  Their problem is that they are politically still part of Tanzania and this UN/accpted member of the international community rule that FIFA now has will never be satisfied while Zanzibar is still part of Tanzania.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 11:31 am #79

Done a bit of research - 11 countries have consulates in Zanzibar.  Went off on a tangent after this, and was surprised by the fact that there is a Kiribati consulate in.... Abergavenny (which has a population of around 13,000)!  Also there is a Montenegrin consulate in the village of Strachur, which has a population of less than 1,000.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 3rd, 2018, 1:29 pm #80

Well, prices are steep in London.
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SDb
Joined: January 24th, 2013, 5:10 am

January 8th, 2018, 8:15 am #81

Those usually are honorary consulates, i.e. voluntary workers.
www.soccer-db.info - football internationals
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

January 8th, 2018, 9:15 am #82

TheRoonBa wrote:CAF has no problem with Zanzibar - otherwise they wouldn't give them separate representation in their club competitions.  They only rejected them because they thought they wouldn't ever become a FIFA member.

Zanzibar could quite feasibly be content with the CECAFA Cup every year, or friendly matches.  Their problem is that they are politically still part of Tanzania and this UN/accpted member of the international community rule that FIFA now has will never be satisfied while Zanzibar is still part of Tanzania.
Oh ya absolutely, I totally agree. There’s just one thing I don’t understand regarding Zanzibar’s (and Reunion) status within CAF.

It’s all understandable while they aren’t allowed to join FIFA. What I don’t understand is the difference between club and national competitions. Zanzibar and Reunion are allowed to enter teams and compete in club tournaments organized by CAF. Why aren’t they allowed to enter teams in the African Cup of Nations? I get CAF doesn’t want a territory that’s apart of another country competing, but what’s the difference from allowing them to compete in club competitions and not national ones. Has this ever been explained?


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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 8th, 2018, 2:00 pm #83

It may be because the selections of club teams don't overlap.  A club from Zanzibar has different players to clubs on the Tanzanian mainland.   But, the Zanzibar national team squad may overlap slightly with the All-Tanzania national team squad.
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

January 8th, 2018, 2:13 pm #84

nfm24 wrote:It may be because the selections of club teams don't overlap.  A club from Zanzibar has different players to clubs on the Tanzanian mainland.   But, the Zanzibar national team squad may overlap slightly with the All-Tanzania national team squad.
Oh alright ya that makes alittle sense then. Surely, to me, CAF could input a rule stating that no player that has played on the Tanzania team may play on the Zanzibar team and vice versa. That would distinctly separate the two.


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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 8th, 2018, 2:56 pm #85

Well then you would have the situation that Zanzibar and Tanzania Mainland would be separate national teams in CAF (AFCON, CHAN etc) but would have to combine to play as one All-Tanzania team in the World Cup.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 9th, 2018, 11:11 am #86

Eagles19 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:CAF has no problem with Zanzibar - otherwise they wouldn't give them separate representation in their club competitions.  They only rejected them because they thought they wouldn't ever become a FIFA member.

Zanzibar could quite feasibly be content with the CECAFA Cup every year, or friendly matches.  Their problem is that they are politically still part of Tanzania and this UN/accpted member of the international community rule that FIFA now has will never be satisfied while Zanzibar is still part of Tanzania.
Oh ya absolutely, I totally agree. There’s just one thing I don’t understand regarding Zanzibar’s (and Reunion) status within CAF.

It’s all understandable while they aren’t allowed to join FIFA. What I don’t understand is the difference between club and national competitions. Zanzibar and Reunion are allowed to enter teams and compete in club tournaments organized by CAF. Why aren’t they allowed to enter teams in the African Cup of Nations? I get CAF doesn’t want a territory that’s apart of another country competing, but what’s the difference from allowing them to compete in club competitions and not national ones. Has this ever been explained?


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Réunion were allowed to compete in qualification for the CAF Women's Championship once (in 2000 - they got a walkover against Kenya, and then beat Egypt over 2 legs and played at the final tournament in South Africa, losing all 3 games).
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

January 9th, 2018, 11:23 am #87

TheRoonBa wrote:
Eagles19 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:CAF has no problem with Zanzibar - otherwise they wouldn't give them separate representation in their club competitions.  They only rejected them because they thought they wouldn't ever become a FIFA member.

Zanzibar could quite feasibly be content with the CECAFA Cup every year, or friendly matches.  Their problem is that they are politically still part of Tanzania and this UN/accpted member of the international community rule that FIFA now has will never be satisfied while Zanzibar is still part of Tanzania.
Oh ya absolutely, I totally agree. There’s just one thing I don’t understand regarding Zanzibar’s (and Reunion) status within CAF.

It’s all understandable while they aren’t allowed to join FIFA. What I don’t understand is the difference between club and national competitions. Zanzibar and Reunion are allowed to enter teams and compete in club tournaments organized by CAF. Why aren’t they allowed to enter teams in the African Cup of Nations? I get CAF doesn’t want a territory that’s apart of another country competing, but what’s the difference from allowing them to compete in club competitions and not national ones. Has this ever been explained?


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Réunion were allowed to compete in qualification for the CAF Women's Championship once (in 2000 - they got a walkover against Kenya, and then beat Egypt over 2 legs and played at the final tournament in South Africa, losing all 3 games).
Do you know why they can compete in club competitions but not the African Cup of Nations?


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