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It's an obvious typo, because the correct scores are:Fast Midfielder wrote:
Turkey's 1950-53 Mediterranenan Cup campaign:
28-10-1950Turkey 3-0 Egypt
08-12-1950 Egypt - Turkey 3-1
There are a lot of misunderstandings about the 1950-53 Mediterrannean Cup tournament's restrictions for i.e. Italian team. U-23?, U-24? Luca has find out that in the Greece - Italy (U-23, U-24, B, whatever) match six Italians were 24+ years old, so age restriction cannot be the case. As Giampaolo write here http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2294 about the 1953-57 tournament we can also ask if there are restrictions for the so called B-teams? I.e. no more than two participations in “A” as mentioned there, but also i.e. a limited number of players who have already played A-international matches are allowed to play for the B-team.Luca wrote:Corriere dello Sport from 24-10-1952, page 4:Giampaolo wrote:
My suspicion is the same.
1. In "La Stampa" article on 26 Oct 52 (did you read it?) is clearly written the rules of the Tnmt (1950/53) were: "under 23 aged players, with 3 fuori quota max".
The most reliable source could be "Corriere dello Sport", but unfortunately I can't have access to it. Have you some suggestion, to this purpose?
http://dlib.coninet.it/bookreader.php?& ... 4/mode/2up
reports a curious sentence: "Per regolamento, se non erriamo, soltanto tre elementi possono accusare un'età maggiore ai 24 anni" that is to say: "According to the rules, if we are not wrong, only three players can be older than 24 years"...
When Italy faced Greece for the Mediterranean Cup on 26-04-1953, Corriere dello Sport from 27-04-1953:
http://www.emeroteca.coni.it/bookreader ... 2/mode/2up
kept calling it "Nazionale Giovanile", but if we take a look at the Italian line-up, we can verify that 6 players were older than 24 years: Primo Sentimenti, Guglielmo Oppezzo, Omero Tognon, Giancarlo Vitali, Silvio Formentin and Amedeo Amadei, while Greece fielded more or less the same team of the Olympic Games 1952 (they would have fielded also Kostas Linoxilakis, but he was injured).Corriere dello Sport from 25-04-1953, page 3:Giampaolo wrote:Third: I found some conflicts about the dates of Egypt vs Turkey Match, as listed in RSSSF (Turkish and Egyptian sites).
http://www.emeroteca.coni.it/bookreader ... 2/mode/2up
reports all the dates of the Mediterranean Cup 1950-1953.
Giampaolo wrote:Mediterranean Cup 1953-1957
Turkey, Egypt and Greece fielded “A” Teams.
Italy, France and Spain were authorized to field only “B” Teams: the rule was
to allow in “B” Team only players with no more than two participations in “A”
In this topic http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161 you can find Turkish line up for the matches against Greece on 29-02-1952 and 16-05-1952. You will miss the name of the famous Lefter, but he did not play any A-international match for Turkey in the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons.Giampaolo wrote:In addition I read, in Turkish Site, that TFA is now considering their Team in 1950/53 MC as "U.21", which is imho an evident inconsistence, for that time.
My personal and final opinion (in absence of new elements) is to label Italy as U.23, Greece and Egypt as "A" and Turkey as XI.
Turkey labelled the sides that appeared in follwing matches against Greece as U21. Players in bold appaered in matches Turkey played in 1951-1952 season against Sweden, Germany, Switzerland and Spain, which are regarded official A by Turkish FA.
29-02-1952 v Greece Salahettin, Naci, Müjdat, Esref, Ali Ishan, Sulejman, Recep, Sevket, Mehmet Ali, Abdullah, Coskun.
16-05-1952 v Greece Turgay, Naci, Vedii, Esref, Ali Ishan, Nusret, Sulejman, Recep, Sevket, Mehmet Ali, Coskun.
I'm trying to explain in the best way my thoughts.Fast Midfielder wrote:Still one question. Why do you label Italian team as U-23? In the 26-04-1953 match against Greece they fielded six players who were 24+ years.
No, because the coach who is in charge for the B-team has to field the players he wants to (with the exception of the players who are selected for A-national team that will play the same day (or same period)). No matter if they have played 0-2 A-international matches before or 100+. Imho A- and B-national teams should be the only teams without restrictions. But this is my personal opinion.Giampaolo wrote:(In brackets: d'you think is correct, with reference to the 1953/57 MC, to name Italy, France and Spain "B" Team, when they had another restriction, not based on the age, but on the number of "A" nominations?)
You have make your position very clear and gave a very good explanation why Italian team was labelled as B-team even though it was a youth side. It is a good question but I fear it is hard to find out. I think according to the Wikipedia profiles of Greek players for Greece NT there could not have been an age restriction.Giampaolo wrote:And there is another question: Greece and Egypt (about Turkey we have already discussed) had they, or not, the same age restrictions of Italy? Who knows? I hope to have clarified my position.
That's true.Fast Midfielder wrote:
I know Italian NT have had the same kind of situation with several of the so called August friendlies.
So this tournament is a restrictive competition. What a bizarre restrictions as at the end of the competition all players could be up to 28 years old + four older ones. A lot of unrestrictive teams even usually field less than seven players who are 28+ years. German NT i.e.Luca wrote:I've just found an article from La Stampa from the day 03-05-1948 about the Mediterranean Cup 1950-1953.
We can read: vedrà impiegata una squadra composta da elementi nati dopo il 1° maggio 1925 (ad eccezione di quattro, per i quali non vi è alcun limite di età).
that is to say: "players born after 1st May 1925 can participate in this tournament. Also, four over-age players can play".
And most NT’s have done so once in a while. After 2010 Worldchampionships Brazil started to select players who according to them will play at the 2014 Worldchampionships they will host. So present Brazilian team is more like an improved Youth team. Besides all NT’s have played many experimental matches by not fielding the players who is supposed to be the best on his position.nfm24 wrote:Indeed, but most teams also impose their own sensible restrictions on the squad in order to build for the future. It is not always about choosing the best 11 players, but about having experience and youth together.
Could be, but for some countries such a team is just a full A-national team, like Germany and Brazil at the moment. I would say more between A+B-team.Giampaolo wrote:The Article from "La Stampa" enlightens our discussion.
It's evident that a squad composed of 25/28 aged players plus 4 over-age players is not a "Youth" Team (certainly not an U.21 Team); it could be classified, more properly, as a "kind" of B Team.
It is better to say a “kind” of a B-team is better than “just” a B-team. I have analyzed different B-teams and sof ar I noticed some countries regularly fielded at least five players who appeared in A-national team before. Italian B-team hardly fielded players who appeared in A-inernational matches before.Giampaolo wrote:, as a "kind" of B Team.
And "kind" of B Team were also Italy, France and Spain sides in 1953/57 MC (where the restriction was based on the number of presences in "A" Team).
Let me say my supposition was "close to be right".Giampaolo wrote:
I have two suppositions:
1.The players age (23 or 24) was "frozen" at the beginning of the Tnmt. (year 1950)
found about this match in a Greek newspaper:Fast Midfielder wrote: Greece probably played two days after their 8-0 win over Syria (on 25-11-1949) another match against same opposition. In Dutch newspaper De Tijd of 28-11-1949 there is a message Greece won the soccer match against Syria 2-0 (see the bottom lines at the second column from the right). Can anyone confirm Greece played a second match against the Syrians?