Team GB

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Team GB

Tanaka
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 03:20

13 Aug 2012, 04:14 #1

can they still participate in next Olympic Games ?
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

13 Aug 2012, 13:17 #2

Tanaka wrote:can they still participate in next Olympic Games ?
No, because they cannot qualify. Europe's 2 positions at the women's tournament are taken by the highest 2 European teams at the previous (2015) World Cup. GB cannot compete at a World Cup and if England qualify, they would be replaced by the 3rd European team (this happened at the 2008 Olympics).
For the men's tournament, the UEFA U-21 Championship is used as a qualifier. Again, GB cannot compete as they are not a FIFA member. If England or Scotland qualify, they would be replaced by the next best European team who did not qualify (this happened also for the 2008 Olympics, England being replaced by Italy).
In short, GB was only allowed to compete because they were automatically qualified as hosts, and they will not be allowed to compete until the UK hosts the Olympics again.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

31 Aug 2012, 14:58 #3

FIFA could admit the UK as a member just for Olympic purposes in addition to the 4 home nations retaining individual memberships - would need a change in the statutes though.
Or simply say that if any of the home nations finish high enough in the qualifying tournaments then a British team can be fielded in the Olympic finals.
But I don't think there will be demand from the players or any associations for this to happen. Big clubs don't like international games in August (or at all).
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

08 Dec 2012, 15:36 #4

Can't remember if I mentioned this on another thread in the past, but I have always thought that 'Team GB' should be able to enter being represented by a 'Home Nation' if they qualify for the Olympics based only on the nation that earned the spot (e.g. if Wales placed high enough in the UEFA tournament to qualify, enter a Welsh-only squad for 'Team GB' at the Olympics, etc.). Same goes for European nations at the FIFA Women's World Cup...
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Blue Lou
Joined: 21 Jan 2009, 04:52

03 Mar 2015, 00:53 #5

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31702679



The FA want to put teams in the 2016 Olympics.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

03 Mar 2015, 08:27 #6

They seem to assume they'll qualify.
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

03 Mar 2015, 12:03 #7

Well, I'm neutral as to whether they are allowed or not. My only protest will be simply to not care whether they lose or win. In any case, for men, it's U-23, which I don't care about anyway.
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Blue Lou
Joined: 21 Jan 2009, 04:52

03 Mar 2015, 18:24 #8

So you'll only care when they draw? :)

It shouldn't be that hard to qualify. Need to come second in group of Italy, Sweden and Portugal.

Yeah, it's not happening, is it?
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

03 Mar 2015, 18:56 #9

He only cares about the 3 overage players, and the other 8 are ignored ;-)

The FA seems to be further asserting some sort of right to represent the whole UK, which even if it has some based on paper (e.g. affiliation to the IOC or whatever) is somewhat dubious in practice.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

13 Mar 2015, 17:36 #10

I've always believed that aside from hosting a Games, Team GB's identity should be decided competitively as sport intended, where possible. So if any of the British teams do well enough to qualify, they have main controlling rights over the team, but are allowed to reach out to whichever other British countries they wish to collaborate with, who are able to accept or decline the offer.
If two or more qualify and no bobsleigh-style multi-team solution has been invented, then they are forced to collaborate (remaining Euro U21/WWC spots decided by play-offs as present), perhaps with The FA representing by name as they currently do, should England be one of those teams. Of course, it isn't just the traditional 4 that have to be considered here, I look forward to the day when only Scotland qualify, then only invite Herm and Pitcairn Islands to work with them out of spite...

Also, these jokes about England not being capable of making it are unfair, 5th successive qualification this year to a tournament known for inconsistency long-term, and would have qualified for the 2008 Olympics without the technicalities. For reference purposes, Scotland last qualified in 1996 Image. Also, we have a new Semi-Final penalty shoot-out victim in charge now:

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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

13 Mar 2015, 21:47 #11

Just as a passing comment, there are other countries which are members of FIFA but not IOC. While FIFA is running the Olympic tournament, it needs to make a proper decision on whether non-members are allowed to play. Not just hope that it doesn't happen.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

24 Aug 2016, 21:44 #12

Boo, Chris Coleman, boo, still an absolute legend but boooooo...
I do agree with him on the importance of the Welsh team spirit and all that, but I don't think it has to be diminished at all if any of the players wear a GB shirt for a couple of weeks (this of course still dependent on a Home Nation qualifying for the Olympics, and of Welsh players then being selected for the squad, of which most would have to be U23 and less likely to be first-choice for Wales anyway), plenty of room to be passionate about both coming from someone who's half-Welsh. Aaron Ramsey himself has played for both teams and it hasn't had an effect on him... could even be filed under 'valuable tournament experience'... same goes for Neil Taylor and our lord and saviour Joe Allen.
On an unrelated note, loving that the Welsh FA have given their slogan a topical update, although it might confuse some of the less bright members of the social media population, #709ERHER57R0N93R Image:
Image
Last edited by mattsanger92 on 24 Aug 2016, 21:46, edited 1 time in total.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

24 Aug 2016, 22:46 #13

mattsanger92 wrote:
the less bright members of the social media population
Tautology.
I don't like this use of numbers in fonts for no reason.  It has some use online for those typing non-Latin alphabets using a Latin keyboard/character set, but otherwise it just looks like teenage bedroom stuff.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

15 Sep 2016, 16:30 #14

Hooray... it's a start at least...
Also, just to place another (dated but relevant) antidote to Chris Coleman's words:
Image
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

15 Sep 2016, 20:30 #15

Captainpointlessbandwagonjump. For women's it is probably worthwhile having a go, but for men's the Olympics is about as relevant to modern football as Steve McClaren.

What is the best that can be achieved? Maybe, after years of tiresome negotiations, back scratching and bickering, a British team enters and qualifies for the Olympics and then can't pick decent players due to the Premier League clash so you have a U23 B-team possibly sneaking a bronze (but more likely crashing out to the first serious country it encounters). Big wow. Give more money to badminton or diving or some of those other sports where we inexplicably pinched nailed-on medals off the bewildered Chinese.

If they do end up sending a men's team, I want to see it picked on merit and not on a quota system. We don't want to see English players taking the rightful places of the Welsh, Northern Irish, or Gibraltarese players just to make up the numbers.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

16 Sep 2016, 17:37 #16

For me, it's really about GB teams just being allowed to have the opportunity to compete rather than self-restricting themselves, the women's team especially but also the men.
The Olympics Tournament is often one of the most open and unpredictable out there, Honduras knocked out Argentina and South Korea (who other than Brazil were probably the team taking it most seriously all-round), then came within a goal of winning a bronze medal. Great Britain's men in 2012 were a penalty shoot-out away from the Medal Rounds, lost to the aforementioned 'very serious' South Korea. Not saying that it's a permanent indicator for predictions, but they weren't exactly slouches.
For funding, I was under the impression that the Home Nation FAs were responsible for the running of the team and whatever supporting finance, the BOA just supply the 'Team GB' branded kits. Other than a few extra plane tickets to the host country I'm not sure it's a huge cost being undertaken, especially when they can stick Gareth Bale or whoever in the kit on a billboard (usually done months before the squad is actually announced so no restrictions on who gets to model it) and make any expenses back on those shirt sales alone.
And I'll agree with you that Wales are the best team right now (just turned P10 in the Rankings and overtook Spain, yay FIFA!), but I'll be pedantic and add that England are only 2 places back... of course other territories' players are welcome in the squad too, otherwise the cricket board would probably want control of the team...
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

16 Sep 2016, 21:31 #17

The openness and unpredictability you mention is to some degree explained by the fact that the overlap with the club season neuters many of the strong "usual suspects" teams with a majority of players in those leagues. The beneficiaries of this are the countries which have (for whatever reason) relatively few players in those leagues, or some other reason to take the Olympics more seriously ... e.g. Honduras, South Korea, UAE, Nigeria etc. The Argentina team that took the field in Rio was a shadow, for example. Brazil had to lobotomize their Copa America Centenario side in order to bargain their better players into the Olympic squad.

Britain would do well to stay out of Olympic football until it has been reformed to become less of a pointless basket case than it is now. On this occasion Brexit is the only sensible option. Olympic football is unworthy of our imperial attention, and indeed, I would be fully in favour of the home nations withdrawing from FIFA altogether until it has learned from its insubordinate foolishness. We should never have allowed them the privilege of re-affiliating us after the war, and should certainly never have allowed foreigners to take over the administration, as they inevitably get ideas above their station.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

17 Sep 2016, 12:29 #18

nfm24 wrote:
We should never have allowed them the privilege of re-affiliating us after the war, and should certainly never have allowed foreigners to take over the administration, as they inevitably get ideas above their station.
Pip pip and hoorah! Image
If you've ever seen the cinematic enigma that is United Passions, you'll be aware at how poorly those foreigns portray us, trying to make us out to be a bunch of unenlightened fools just for stating a few simple truths like how that 'World Cup' thing will never catch on and I should probably stop before I get to the racist parts...
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

17 Sep 2016, 20:19 #19

I would like to see a film of the same story as "United Passions" from the opposite perspective, e.g. portraying Rous in the style of the last Governor of an ever more unstable colony in the final days of Empire, trying desperately to maintain good old British order while chaos unfolds beyond his veranda. The film would nostalgically remember a clean halcyon gentlemans' club-esque sport where Corinthian ideals still held (and the riff-raff kept well out), with an incredulous Rous trying desperately to keep things as they are but consequently unable to offer tangible benefits to new/poor members who are easily corrupted by the evil Havelange and his pro-sell-out cronies.

The final reel sees Rous, a beaten and now irrelevant man, forced by protocol to preside over his own demise knowing that the past had been lost, trudging off into the distance holding a forlorn football under his arm, in a manner reminiscent of Chris Patten in 1997 ( )

Of course, we'll leave out the bit about Rous's favourable dealings with the apartheid South Africans as that would just get in the way of the story.
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Sensini
Joined: 25 May 2010, 20:50

18 Sep 2016, 09:53 #20

____________________________
http://www.voetbalkroniek.nl
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

26 Mar 2017, 18:52 #21

mattsanger92 wrote:
On an unrelated note, loving that the Welsh FA have given their slogan a topical update, although it might confuse some of the less bright members of the social media population, #709ERHER57R0N93R Image:
Image
Putting all bias aside, "Together Stronger" is a great slogan, short, to the point, and representative of what the team's been about in recent years (although having Gareth Bale helps).
I only bring this up because I've just seen the Scotland team walk out under their FA logo placed next to the words "This Time". Image
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

27 Mar 2017, 01:53 #22

mattsanger92 wrote:
I've just seen the Scotland team walk out under their FA logo placed next to the words "This Time".
I think we borrowed that slogan from one of the other home nations:

Scotland played very well tonight, I thought, albeit they only grabbed the winner late on.  Griffiths must be the unluckiest player to wear a Scotland jersey, while Wee Gordon has finally realised that having a centre-back who can actually play football a bit (i.e. Mulgrew) opens up all kinds of possibilities for a non-hoofing approach.  Armstrong and Brown were good and Forrest was always making things happen.  It's just a shame that these sort of performances only come when it's virtually too late.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

27 Mar 2017, 18:16 #23

Mulgrew... Southend United legend*.
*Probably more deserving players for legend status, but he's one that I've seen play live (and well) a few times. Not a scratch on Bilel Mohsni though, that Tunisian madman, like a League 1 Eric Cantona.
Anyway, Scotland did play well and deserved the win, was an extremely scrappy goal by Coldplay there though. And maintaining his own legendary status after the match was Wee Gordon, if this job doesn't work out then surely one of the more boring coaches in club football should hire him purely to tag him in for the press conferences.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

28 Mar 2017, 01:28 #24

I was trying to think of other teams where there is a big disparity between the manager's own playing ability as an ex-footballer (at his peak) and the players of which he is currently in charge.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

12 Oct 2017, 17:50 #25

nfm24 wrote: I was trying to think of other teams where there is a big disparity between the manager's own playing ability as an ex-footballer (at his peak) and the players of which he is currently in charge.
Well, looks like that factor's no longer a problem for you lot. Poor Wee Gordon.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

12 Oct 2017, 21:22 #26

Start ordering hessian sacks in bulk, it's potato season.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

12 Oct 2017, 23:25 #27

According to the current betting odds, he's mainly up against dodgy text messaging's Malky Mackay (at first I had to double-take because I confused his name with this guy).

And the 3rd-favourite removes the potato problem purely because they'd be eaten raw at point of creation:

Image
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

12 Oct 2017, 23:44 #28

Well, if it has to be a former England manager, at least it's not Shteve. 

It is indeed serendipitous timing that Scotland might recruit a relegation-dodging specialist just as the new Nations League starts.   Slowly our country is being transformed into a lower-to-mid-table yoyo club, a natural development since in recent years  most of the players have been based at such clubs.   The best we can ever hope for is a Pulis-like mid-table dullfest.

Can't we have Ranieri instead?
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

13 Oct 2017, 00:15 #29

nfm24 wrote: Scotland might recruit a relegation-dodging specialist
Based on his last job I wouldn't exactly use that term for David Moyes... seems more likely to lead you into Division D.

I can't joke too much though, earlier I noticed there's also an oddschecker page for the next Welsh coach (if Coleman can't be convinced to stay)... the favourite is Ryan Giggs 😒.

Hopefully it's just stupid punters fawning over star power, but funnily enough Tony Pulis is near the top of that list. Surprised that out of the many names on there there was no mention whatsoever of Mark Sampson, he's young, Welsh, currently out of work, has had a lot of success with a national team, and unless he's bisexual his baggage seems to be less than Malky Mackay's anyway... would easily take him over Giggs anyday.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

13 Oct 2017, 14:30 #30

There must be some managers who aren't racist, sexist, or crap.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

06 Nov 2017, 19:49 #31

nfm24 wrote: Start ordering hessian sacks in bulk, it's potato season.
Scotland's bullet status: dodged.

Potato season status: TBC.
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

07 Nov 2017, 13:07 #32

mattsanger92 wrote:
nfm24 wrote: Start ordering hessian sacks in bulk, it's potato season.
Scotland's bullet status: dodged.

Potato season status: TBC.
To be fair on Moyes, his record is not that bad in terms of wins/losses - His Won/Drawn/Lost is 378-228-282, with 1236-1051 for goals.

When he was in for a lot of criticism (Man Utd, Real Sociedad) his record was 39-24-30 - which is similar to his overall record.  Only at Sunderland was his record crap (but was it him, or was it Sunderland who were crap?) - 8-7-28. I would argue that it's Sunderland who were a lost cause - they are currently bottom of the Championship ("4th out of 24) with a 1-7-8 record.

His "honest realism" at Sunderland was, I believe, just that (and not unduly negative, as expressed by many pundits).  Sunderland weren't good enough to stay in the Premiership.  He realised that, and tried his best to bolster the squad, but alas, was not able to work miracles.  The fact that they are now bottom of the league below shows either that Sunderland are crap, or that Moyes has made them crap (and they haven't recovered).
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

08 Nov 2017, 22:35 #33

I know he's not as bad as people make him out to be, but unless he has a mood switch away from the camera (which is entirely possible) he doesn't seem to be the enthusiastic or motivational type with fresh ideas, which makes it all the weirder that between sacking Bilic and announcing Moyes those were the traits West Ham's owners said they were looking for.

And someone who has such a thing for human trees does not inspire confidence that there will be no potatoes picked...

And while it doesn't look like Chris Coleman's going anywhere now I was kind of hoping West Ham would give Ryan Giggs a job anyway to put that ridiculous notion I previously mentioned to bed.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

09 Nov 2017, 08:35 #34

mattsanger92 wrote:I know he's not as bad as people make him out to be,
He is.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

17 Nov 2017, 22:07 #35

mattsanger92 wrote:(if Coleman can't be convinced to stay)...
Frigging Sunderland!!!!? 😢

A massive massive thank you for everything he's done and I don't begrudge him moving on at all as he was already a legend, I'm just left wondering if he's got a screw loose. Presumably they're paying him a lot more and he can fall back on the fact they're a poisoned chalice if he fails (while a success would amplify his reputation x-fold), basically a more experienced, non-club-legend version of Alan Shearer's brief coaching career.

If this is all his decision to accept an ambitious Sunderland bid then fair enough, I just don't like the implication that the likes of Coleman and O'Neill can work wonders for their national teams and don't get any better club offers than this, while David Moyes was a key factor in Sunderland's current predicament and he gets to fail upwards.

The most important part now for the FAW is to find someone who 'gets it' like he did, thankfully Ryan Giggs has very kindly buggered off to Vietnam at just the right moment which hopefully takes him out of the list of options. If my off-the-wall suggestion of Mark Sampson doesn't work out then give it Osian.
Last edited by mattsanger92 on 18 Nov 2017, 00:13, edited 1 time in total.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

18 Nov 2017, 00:10 #36

Maybe Real Madrid have agreed to loan Bale to Sunderland.   Hopefully this paves the way for O'Neill's Ulsterian alchemy to be rewarded with the Hampden Hotseat.  
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

18 Nov 2017, 00:22 #37

For most people, taking this Sunderland job would be the bravest thing they've ever done, but considering Coleman made a brief playing comeback after a leg-breaking car accident and took on a job vacated by his deceased best friend (and later forced himself to move away from said friend's successful playing style when it wasn't working for him), I guess he's lived through enough to feel like Sunderland is a cakewalk to be fair.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

18 Nov 2017, 14:02 #38

Thinking about candidates for the Wales job (or Northern Ireland assuming O'Neill goes somewhere), how about Hudson of NZ ?
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

19 Nov 2017, 19:32 #39

Maybe (if Colorado Rapids don't get there first that is), but at the risk of sounding xenophobic does he have any Welsh in him (I know he is English and American but not sure if his few months in Newport is enough)?

I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker at all (in fact Large Samuel would be an interesting choice if he doesn't become Uncle Big Sam, never forget he has a 100% record at international level), but a lot of Speed and Coleman's success was built off of a reinvigorated sense of Welsh pride. Coleman himself has just called it a key requirement for his successor. Which would in theory rule out Ryan "invented the convenient international break injury" Giggs, although my 'promote from within' suggestion seems to be fine with him so what do I know.

Giggs could still of course turn that repuation around, it would just take a lot more work than some of the other candidates, Craig Bellamy is also high on the 'inexperienced ex-players' stakes but would be a much more popular appointment. And the other major favourite from the betting odds seems to be Tony Pulis (who in a convenient act of timing looks like he'll soon be available to start immediately), would be my favourite of the 3 headline options even if it does turn Wales into the potato capital of international football...

As for my Mark Sampson suggestion, it's not so much a recommendation for him to get the job, just annoying that he's not even being considered by the media, especially when the odds suggest (purely by virtue of being on the board) that Robbie Savage has a better chance of getting the job than Sampson does, a long way to go until Norwegian-style equality it seems.

But if all else fails amongst the Welsh candidates then Thierry Henry would be fun.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

20 Nov 2017, 18:12 #40

I would like to see Savage get it and become a really successful manager, going on to have a top career in La Liga before taking over at Old Trafford, just to see the look on Gary Neville's face.

Pulis (and Big Sam) are probably best served by going/staying on holiday until the January panic sackings kick in, and then they can name their prices to rescue a relegation threatened PL team.  

Pulis's sacking from West Brom is potentially bad news for Scotland, since West Brom is basically Northern Ireland plus a couple of ringers, so Michael O'Neill may be tempted.   And then who are we going to get!
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

20 Nov 2017, 18:19 #41

Apparently Adrian Chiles was on air this morning when the Pulis sacking was announced, and his first reaction was that a dream scenario would be Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane taking over....   I can only assume that he has not watched any of Ireland's matches recently.  Or maybe he's just mixed up the two O'Neill's.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

20 Nov 2017, 21:28 #42

nfm24 wrote: I would like to see Savage get it
No, no, a thousand times no, you're making Giggs sound like a good idea.


Pulis's sacking from West Brom is potentially bad news for Scotland, since West Brom is basically Northern Ireland plus a couple of ringers, so Michael O'Neill may be tempted.   And then who are we going to get!
Adrian Chiles?
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

Yesterday, 00:01 #43

I think even the bookies didn't look that far.    But I wish the SFA would hurry up and bag O'Neill jr - it can only be a matter of days before Moyes is sacked again and we'll have to dodge that bullet all over.

The problem for Wales is they have to find a Welshman who has a good enough record and isn't a come down after the recent success.  But they also have to be reasonably responsible and not just appoint an unproven ex-player (e.g. Giggs) out of desperation, but with a proper plan if they do go that way.  You'd have to keep Coleman's assistant do to the actual thinking, and just have Giggs or whoever as the frontman.

Pulis would be a solid albeit dull choice.  He would not enthuse the fans, and hist style runs contrary to Welsh success recently.   He also isn't someone who is going to think long-term and blood young players like Toshack/Speed/Coleman, but is just going to think about getting the next result.  Perhaps Mark Hughes?  But he's been there before.   Maybe Gary Monk is Welsh enough?  But these guys are in work and probably earn much more than Wales can afford.   As does Pulis, unless he does it as a retirement gig.   Aside from them, who else is there?  Dean Saunders is the only other Welsh manager I can think of.   Might as well appoint Bob Bradley.

Actually, I suggest FAW just wait until the new year.  Coleman will probably have been sacked by then and you can get him back.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

Yesterday, 09:34 #44

nfm24 wrote: The problem for Wales is they have to find a Welshman who has a good enough record and isn't a come down after the recent success.  But they also have to be reasonably responsible and not just appoint an unproven ex-player (e.g. Giggs) out of desperation, but with a proper plan if they do go that way.  You'd have to keep Coleman's assistant do to the actual thinking, and just have Giggs or whoever as the frontman.
In defence of Giggs (can't beleive I'm saying that) and Bellamy, Hughes was still a player when the FAW appointed him, probably one of the most bizarre international appointments of all-time in hindsight (not that it wasn't successful). I'm guessing by assistant you mean Roberts, half of the backroom team are at Sunderland now. Out of the Team GB alumni (shoehorning it in with the title topic there), Bellamy would be the one much more likely to keep up the 'Welsh pride' but has the potential to say/do something stupid and re-open the Cardiff/Swansea divide, Giggs would just be less popular from the off and the way he's looked for jobs post-Van Gaal's clipboard he'd probably jump at the first West (Brom or Ham) to throw a bit of money his way.

I'd like to think the FAW know what they're doing though, they knocked it out of the park with 3 of the last 4 permanent appointments (and Toshack lasted 6 years even if it was a dark age), obviously the talent pool isn't as great this time from initial appearances but hopefully they know something the betting mugs don't. I'd love it if Sampson turned out to be one of their leading candidates, if only for the shock by the media and/or the probable casual dismissal of his acheivements in the women's game that follow (led by inexperienced pundits that themselves have been overlooked). Also that if they brought up his past extra-curriculars it would be hypocritical not to judge Giggs by similar standards.

As for Big Tone, it depends. He can get results (and with a lot less international matches his 'effect' could span a much longer timeframe), but it's looking like an FAW requirement is that the new boss has to work with the existing structure that Speed/Coleman established. If he can somehow hybrid those things (Coleman's teams don't exactly play Total Football), it would be a good move.

If everything else falls through there's always Adrian Chiles, who's surely not earning that much now, he used to be on top of the TV world, what's he even doing at the moment?

And Moyes is looking more and more like the grim reaper or something, the West Ham coat colours aren't exactly flattering for that but still, them bubbles drained all the colour from his face.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

Yesterday, 09:43 #45

Perhaps a Bellamy/Savage Master Blaster combo.

I missed what happened with Sampson.   It looked like racism was being pinned on him, but then sacked him for something sexual but unspecified.  I didn't catch the detail of whether that was bad enough to preclude him from any other jobs.   It would be odd it to be sufficient to be sacked from England manager but remain eligible for Wales manager.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

Yesterday, 14:28 #46

nfm24 wrote: I missed what happened with Sampson.   It looked like racism was being pinned on him, but then sacked him for something sexual but unspecified.  I didn't catch the detail of whether that was bad enough to preclude him from any other jobs.   It would be odd it to be sufficient to be sacked from England manager but remain eligible for Wales manager.
From the looks of things he's still cleared of any actual racism charges (described by the judge as "ill-judged attempts at humour, which, as a matter of law, were discriminatory on grounds of race", so basically guilty of making some dodgy dad jokes (at the tender age of 35)). Pretty sure a few of the older candidates for the Wales job could be found guilty of the odd dad joke if someone looked hard enough.

The unspecified sexual stuff was, well, unspecified, but it was made clear that it was nothing to do with his time in the England job and only happened at Bristol Academy (the women's club he was at before the England job, and for clarity's sake they weren't a youth team despite the name), apparently he slept with a few of the players in his squad.

Obviously a potential conflict of interest and 'breach of trust', but The FA deemed that a worthy enough stain on his character to sack him, even though this was 3 years after they'd finished an internal investigation into him (which presumably deemed him fit to carry on). Which makes the sacking reek of 'find any reason to get rid of him', 'covering up The FA's own incompetence', 'easy scapegoat', 'tapping into the OUTRAGE! and scandal = problem cultures for PR points', take your pick.

This is where it gets a bit tricky to be honest, as 'disgraced women's football coach getting into men's game' doesn't have much of a precedent, and the Welsh women's team coach Jayne Ludlow has been an outspoken critic on the whole ordeal, so it might not be good FAW politics to hire him from that perspective. But my reasoning, while it's not nessecarily right, is that people have wormed their way back into another job soon after for much bigger (and sometimes actual) crimes (Exhibit A: until/unless they get someone permanent like Chiles, Scotland are currently stuck with Malky Mackay).

Sampson's not a saint but he's far from the worst person to ever be a football coach, a job which he's proven to be pretty good at (and had the respect of most of his players) so it would be a shame if he never found a job again in favour of any dross that might just hidden their faults better (if they have them).
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Luca
Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

Yesterday, 19:13 #47

mattsanger92 wrote: Hughes was still a player when the FAW appointed him, probably one of the most bizarre international appointments of all-time in hindsight
There have been dozens of cases of active players who've been appointed as international coaches during their career. A famous case was Bruce Grobbelaar of Zimbabwe.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

Yesterday, 19:29 #48

I see.    Leaving aside his moral toxicity, what has Sampson actually done to suggest he is a candidate for a high level job in the men's game?   Was England's success under him just down to his tactics and general coaching, rather than, say, the rising professionalism of women's football in England?   I don't see that he did "enough" to be able to get the Wales job even without the sacking issues.

The last England women match I watched was the thrashing by the Dutch, and that was such a schoolboy/girl brainless display of aimless hoofing and headless-chicken running around in anti-phase with the opponents that it would have made Martin O'Neill jealous.  Perhaps it's unfair to judge on that alone, but I think Wales probably need a tactically wise and stylish coach more than they need a PE teacher.   Or at least, someone of indisputable character that the fans can rally behind regardless.

I don't like Mackay either.  Every time he speaks it sounds like he is trying to convince himself in his head that the words he is saying are real words and he hasn't just made them up (Ian Dowie style).  Mackay has the constant demeanour of a man who desperately needs a fart but is worried he'll be rumbled.  

Whereas Strachan farted at will, with confidence.

Maybe Wales should appoint Strachan.
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mattsanger92
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

Today, 00:20 #49

nfm24 wrote:I see.    Leaving aside his moral toxicity, what has Sampson actually done to suggest he is a candidate for a high level job in the men's game?   Was England's success under him just down to his tactics and general coaching, rather than, say, the rising professionalism of women's football in England?   I don't see that he did "enough" to be able to get the Wales job even without the sacking issues.

The last England women match I watched was the thrashing by the Dutch, and that was such a schoolboy/girl brainless display of aimless hoofing and headless-chicken running around in anti-phase with the opponents that it would have made Martin O'Neill jealous.  Perhaps it's unfair to judge on that alone, but I think Wales probably need a tactically wise and stylish coach more than they need a PE teacher.   Or at least, someone of indisputable character that the fans can rally behind regardless.
It's not a bad record to have finished 3rd in two major tournaments running (and being competitive in that SheBelieves Cup twice), would fit right in to current Welsh tradition (active until next July).

Never said he should get the job, but he's got more experience and credentials than some of the 'recently retired ex-player' names being thrown around, the calibre of Welsh candidates isn't too stellar so he'd be a viable wildcard to consider, and the FAW have been known for pulling wildcards in their time. When you've got Robbie Savage (never had a coaching job in his life) and Graeme Souness (never had one in 11 years and responsible for Ali Dia) on the betting board it's just general politeness to at least put Sampson on the list.

On the same token as your Dutch example I don't know if pummelling Scotland and Russia 6-0 each is a clear indicator of some coaching prodigy but he's taken England teams to semi-finals of tournaments, up until this summer's youth boom that was nothing to be sniffed at in either gender. The 'growing professionalism' could have something to do with it but it was happening across the board, Denmark with all their team's structural problems still came 2nd and beating Germany (the ultimate women's professionals) along the way, and whether it was a host boost or something the Netherlands only made their first World Cup in 2015 and are now European champions.

Sampson and England's success is like with Blatter and FIFA's help for smaller nations, we'll never know if they were right place/right time or if anyone in that role could have got the same results, so at least some credit has to go their way for overseeing it (even with the dodginess surrounding them).

Meanwhile, another 'Welsh coach in the England set-up' I heard mentioned online recently was Steve Cooper of that youth boom fame, obviously he currently has a job with the U17s but is even more successful than Sampson's been. As someone who is both nationalities it seems unfair that the the best the bigger country seems to have supplied in this cross-border arrangement in my lifetime is Bobby Gould.

And I'd be okay with Strachan (after some of the other options have been exhausted), if the team goes downhill at least it would be with a bit of wit in the press conferences afterwards.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

Today, 01:08 #50

He didn't finish 3rd at two major tmts, he reached the semis at two.  He won one match out of six at the SheBelieves Cup.   I'm not saying he's rubbish, I'm just saying that for a relatively high level job in men's football, I don't think anyone (in Britain) looks to women's managers anyway, even if they are successful, unless they are desperate.  If he had won the World Cup, and not had the moral issues, then maybe.  But I think a lot of people view it similar to success with a youth team.

Would Sunderland, or a similar club, have picked up Sampson?
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