Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

October 30th, 2017, 1:36 pm #201

Thanks.
Which is the date of  GFC - Surinam in Georgetown?
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Joined: December 26th, 2008, 11:44 am

October 30th, 2017, 3:43 pm #202

the report says Woensdag, which is Wednesday. So the date must have been 20-07-1938.
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

October 30th, 2017, 4:44 pm #203

OK, well.
And now also the document in RSSSF is complete.
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Joined: December 26th, 2008, 11:44 am

November 3rd, 2017, 2:31 pm #204

Giampaolo wrote: OK, well.
And now also the document in RSSSF is complete.
When we will see the complete document? So far I still see this one.
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

November 3rd, 2017, 4:52 pm #205

I was referring to "Caribbean trip of Surinam 1938" RSSSF document, where no confirmation is given about the match "GFC - Surinam".
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

November 12th, 2017, 9:31 am #206

I read in the updated list:

26-09-1948 Frans-Guyana W 4-2 Cayenne

28-09-1948 Frans-Guyana L 2-3 Cayenne

01-10-1948 Guyana W 3-0 Cayenne

from which, apparently, Guyana and Surinam toured French Guyana.

But then I am a little bit confused because, in other part of the topic, the 01-10 Match is quoted in Paramaribo. In that case Surinam toured Fr.Guyana in September , while Guyana, immediately after,  toured Surinam in October.
Which is the correct version?

Second question:
did the three Teams (Guyana, Fr.Guyana and Surinam) play other matches, in the same period, vs.
other NT (e.g. Guyana vs. Fr.Guyana) and/or local Club Teams?
Thanks.
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Joined: May 25th, 2010, 4:50 pm

November 19th, 2017, 7:39 am #207

 The match Suriname vs British Guyana 3-0 was played in Cayenne (not Paramaribo), but not 1 October but 30 September.

The Surinam team at first would leave for Cayenne 18 September, but British Guiana reported to the Surinam FA they only could play 25 September earliest. Suriname now left 22 September. In that newspaper report it is mentioned these are the first matches for the Caribbean championship (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0121). The winner would play later that year in Guadeloupe a tournament to commemorate 100 year ending of slavery (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0080).
I could not find anything about the match 28 September vs French Guiana (L 2-3). In the report of the first match it is mentioned the next match was 30 September (which must have been vs British Guiana) and the last match 3 October (no opponent mentioned) (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0130). However I could not find any report about that last match, maybe it was British vs French Guiana???

26.09.1948 Cayenne: French Guiana - Suriname 2-4 https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0084
30.09.1948 Cayenne: Suriname - British Guiana 3-0 https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0096
03.10.1948 Cayenne: ?

I could not find any other (friendly) matches, but Suriname just retuned from touring the Netherlands:
04.08.1948 Amsterdam: Ajax - Suriname 2-2
07.08.1948 Rotterdam: Feijenoord - Suriname 3-1 
15.08.1948 Tilburg: Tilburg XI - Suriname 2-2
21.08.1948 Nijmegen: Quick (Nijmegen) - Suriname 5-4
25.08.1948 Groningen: Be Quick (Groningen) - Suriname 3-1
28?.08.1948 Dordrecht: DFC - Suriname 1-1
07.09.1948 The Hague: The Hague XI - Suriname 3-0

Concerning the mentioned final tournament at the end of 1948 earlier in this post:
Participants: Suriname, Martinique, French Guiana, winner of Guadeloupe-Haiti

16.12.1948 Basse-Terre?: Guadeloupe - Haiti 1-0 (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0081)
17.12.1948 Basse-Terre: Martinique - Suriname 4-3 (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... eg21:a0054)
After protest of Suriname, the proposal of Martinique was accepted to replay all matches, but due to lack of time this wasn't possible. One match was played but the gold and silver medals were handed out to the managers of the foreign teams before that match (report doesn't say to whom exactly) (https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd: ... peg21:p003).
20?.12.1948 Basse-Terre?: Guadeloupe - Martinique 3-0

Any more info about this tournament?
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

November 20th, 2017, 4:51 am #208

Thanks, Mark, for all the details.
The information of Surinam's trip to The Netherlands are very interesting.
Why don't you add it to RSSSF? If I am not wrong, no mention had been made of that tour, till now.

About the two tournaments.
a. September/October 1948.
cantab.net reports:
??/09/1948  Fort-de-France   Martinique         5-0   Dominica           Caraibes
??/10/1948                   Dutch Guiana       3-0   British Guiana     Caraibes
??/10/1948                   French Guiana      3-2   British Guiana     Caraibes
??/10/1948                   Dutch Guiana       4-2   French Guiana      Caraibes
Probably, the first one is not part of the tnmt.
Dates and Venue of the other three are in your post.
The result of  French vs Br.Guiana was 3-2.

b.December 1948.
Always from cantab.net:
16/12/1948  Basse-Terre      Martinique         6-0   Dominica           Caraibes
16/12/1948  Pointe-à-Pitre   Guadeloupe         1-0   Haiti              Caraibes
18/12/1948  Basse-Terre      Martinique         4-3   Dutch Guiana       Caraibes       or 3-2 ?
18/12/1948  Pointe-à-Pitre   Guadeloupe         7-2   French Guiana      Caraibes
20/12/1948  Pointe-à-Pitre   Guadeloupe         3-0   Martinique         Caraibes

Martinique-Surinam result was 4-3.
In addition, may-be that:
First two matches made to select the winners.
Second two matches as Semifinals.
Fifth match the Final.
But this is just a supposition.
 
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

November 20th, 2017, 5:07 am #209

Guadeloupe-Haïti 1-0 (goal Voulzy)
Final: goals: Jacques, Veuky, Sornier
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

November 20th, 2017, 5:47 am #210

Was the final: 
20/12/1948  Pointe-à-Pitre   Guadeloupe         3-0   Martinique  ?
And is this confirming my assumption about the tnmt were right?
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

November 20th, 2017, 6:38 am #211

Giampaolo wrote: Was the final: 
20/12/1948  Pointe-à-Pitre   Guadeloupe         3-0   Martinique  ?
And is this confirming my assumption about the tnmt were right?
yes you were right (as far as I know...)
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

November 20th, 2017, 1:01 pm #212

I can't be sure from the above discussion whether or not you all know that this tournament has been listed on RSSSF:
http://www.rsssf.com/tablesc/caraibes48.html

Though it may be incomplete.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

November 20th, 2017, 1:12 pm #213

nfm24 wrote: I can't be sure from the above discussion whether or not you all know that this tournament has been listed on RSSSF:
http://www.rsssf.com/tablesc/caraibes48.html

Though it may be incomplete.
seems I put it on RSSSF (years ago)
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Joined: May 25th, 2010, 4:50 pm

November 20th, 2017, 3:36 pm #214

Suriname vs Martinique was not 18 but 17 December (the newspaper report of 18 December says "yesterday", the one of monday 20 December says "last friday", and the one of 27 December says "the next day" (after Guadeloupe vs Haiti).
Goals scorers for Suriname: (Martinique) 0-1, Deira 1-1, (Martinique) 1-2, Kamperveen 2-2, (Martinique) 2-3 (pen.), Nelom 3-3, 87' (Martinique) 3-4.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

November 20th, 2017, 6:13 pm #215

We don't doubt you :-) 

Piet's source must have been the Martinique book (Tome 1) by Cabrera & Expert which gives those dates.
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Joined: February 16th, 2011, 3:43 am

November 21st, 2017, 4:41 am #216

Well.
Now, coming back to the origin of my question, the list of Surinam's matches should be updated:
. 30-09-1948 Guyana W 3-0 Cayenne, not 01-10-1948 Guyana W 3-0 Cayenne.
. 28-09-1948 Frans-Guyana L 2-3 Cayenne cancelled (taken by mistake instead of
  03-10-1948 Frans Guyana - Br.Guyana 3-2 Cayenne.
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Joined: October 5th, 2014, 1:11 pm

May 18th, 2018, 5:53 am #217

Anyone have better records for the Inter-Guiana games than RSSSF? It's been mostly U-19, and in 2016 was futsal only, but appears to have used senior players at least once or twice since being revived in the 2000s.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

May 18th, 2018, 7:34 am #218

themodelcitizen wrote: Anyone have better records for the Inter-Guiana games than RSSSF? It's been mostly U-19, and in 2016 was futsal only, but appears to have used senior players at least once or twice since being revived in the 2000s.
I'm pretty sure it has been youth since 2000.  For example, the 2008 and 2013 editions where RSSSF states it was for national teams - it was actually the U-19 national teams, as per the Games' regulations, as can be seen by news reports from the time (mentioning U-19 specifically, or using monikers like "Junior Jaguars").
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Joined: October 5th, 2014, 1:11 pm

May 18th, 2018, 1:13 pm #219

Cheers, at this point it looks to be secondary school students only (for all sports?), can't imagine U-19 players from US colleges or European academies would be getting called up
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