Parishes of Jersey

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

July 10th, 2018, 11:55 am #1

Not regional teams within the island, this is the Ellan Vannin-style name that a Jersey ConIFA bid is going for

Apparently the Jersey FA not on board (no idea how this alters their approach to UEFA), but 'top players' are...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

August 17th, 2018, 4:00 pm #2

The analogy with EV would probably be to call the team Jèrri.  Or they could call it Caesarea. 

Although maybe they're missing an opportunity that wasn't available to EV - they could form a combined Channel Islands association for the purposes of ConIFA.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

August 18th, 2018, 3:21 pm #3

nfm24 wrote: The analogy with EV would probably be to call the team Jèrri.  Or they could call it Caesarea. 

Although maybe they're missing an opportunity that wasn't available to EV - they could form a combined Channel Islands association for the purposes of ConIFA.
If they were going to form a partnership with anyone, surely it would have to be 🇧🇯...
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 19th, 2018, 4:51 pm #4

I think that joke would have worked better if you'd written Benin.  The flag of Benin isn't on most people's list of immediately recognisable flags.

That said, possibly the joke would have been better not being written at all 😃
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

August 19th, 2018, 5:01 pm #5

In any case, "Parishes of Jersey FC" - what a shit name!  Surely Jersey Parishes would be better?  And why "FC"?  If you want to be a representative team, get rid of the FC stuff that labels you a club team.  CONIFA is not for club teams!
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

August 19th, 2018, 6:48 pm #6

TheRoonBa wrote:That said, possibly the joke would have been better not being written at all 😃
On this forum, no joke is too obscure and contrived.
TheRoonBa wrote:In any case, "Parishes of Jersey FC" - what a shit name!  Surely Jersey Parishes would be better?
Jersey Royals ?
TheRoonBa wrote:And why "FC"?  If you want to be a representative team, get rid of the FC stuff that labels you a club team.  CONIFA is not for club teams!
This sort of thing seems to come from people wanting to get involved with representative football before actually understanding what it means. 
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

August 20th, 2018, 3:21 pm #7

TheRoonBa wrote: In any case, "Parishes of Jersey FC" - what a shit name!  Surely Jersey Parishes would be better?  And why "FC"?  If you want to be a representative team, get rid of the FC stuff that labels you a club team.  CONIFA is not for club teams!
FC Korea? TSV Helgoland? I completely agree though that clubs shouldn't be allowed at least by name (which my 2 examples do comply with), if they're merely the strange means to an end as the de facto 'FA' then fine.

Unless of course the FC in the name stands for "Football Confederation" or some such. The "Parishes of Jersey" part I don't have much of a problem with, but you'll be pleased to know that this particular movement is getting media attention, waters being allowed to be muddied by ITV here.

And speaking of Channel Island combos from earlier, they've put together a Champions League-style (I'm assuming) cup at women's club level.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

August 20th, 2018, 3:43 pm #8

will the regular Jersey FA face problems if they join CONIFA?
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

August 20th, 2018, 3:49 pm #9

I'd imagine it goes the way of Ellan Vannin (hopefully not the current situation mind).
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

August 20th, 2018, 6:46 pm #10

mattsanger92 wrote:FC Korea? TSV Helgoland? I completely agree though that clubs shouldn't be allowed at least by name (which my 2 examples do comply with), if they're merely the strange means to an end as the de facto 'FA' then fine.
Heligoland is just a relabeling issue, being so small that there is effectively only one football organisation anyway.  The Korean case was discussed before and the "official" info given was along the lines that it is an association but for publicity purposes etc they prefer a label of "FC Korea" despite that it is (a) a literal non-sequitur for ConIFA purposes, and (b) also the name of an actual club.   Some may be less bothered about a slapdash attitude to these things, it seems.

Generally it's not just about relabeling though.  There are key differences between clubs and associations which can have various implications for membership.  For example, clubs can be for private members/subscribers, owned by individuals, and run as businesses, whereas associations should be non-profit organizations with proper constitutions etc, and to be representative of a whole demographic.  At the level that ConIFA is operating at the moment, the business implications don't make much practical difference (although maybe some of the "representativeness" aspects do) but you can imagine the effects of the same scenario at FIFA level, with clubs as members representing countries.

Mind you, one of the founding members of FIFA was "Madrid FC."

Besides, the idea behind the likes of ConIFA is to enhance the representation of regions/areas/groups that are in some sense unrepresented, or "sportingly isolated."  Having to contrive roundabout names such as "Parishes of ..." doesn't really achieve that aim, and might even be counterproductive.

Anyway, Jersey doesn't really fit the "unrepresented" criteria, having had regular representative fixtures for over 100 years, against a variety of opponents.  The only sense in which it is unrepresented in football is by not being a direct affiliate of FIFA, and joining ConIFA isn't likely to help that.

The Isle of Man didn't have the same amount of international/interinsular activity, as before the Island Games most of the fixtures were against British clubs.  The Ellan Vannin organisers wanted wider participation but also, crucially, a tighter restriction on who could represent the island.  I don't know if the Jersey people want an analogous restriction.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

September 4th, 2018, 6:49 pm #11

nfm24 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:FC Korea? TSV Helgoland? I completely agree though that clubs shouldn't be allowed at least by name (which my 2 examples do comply with), if they're merely the strange means to an end as the de facto 'FA' then fine.
Generally it's not just about relabeling though.  There are key differences between clubs and associations which can have various implications for membership.  For example, clubs can be for private members/subscribers, owned by individuals, and run as businesses, whereas associations should be non-profit organizations with proper constitutions etc, and to be representative of a whole demographic.  At the level that ConIFA is operating at the moment, the business implications don't make much practical difference (although maybe some of the "representativeness" aspects do) but you can imagine the effects of the same scenario at FIFA level, with clubs as members representing countries.

Mind you, one of the founding members of FIFA was "Madrid FC."
Of course, I was just thinking along the lines of Heligoland / UKIJ being run as bits on the side by the clubs because no-one else is (to varying degrees of 'unique entityness'). I don't think there's anything wrong with someone 'doubling up' as the chief executive of the 'FA' and chairman of the club, for example, as long as the distinction is made clear that those are two separate operations, even if much of the work overlaps. So Heligoland did a fairly decent job (but could've done better), "FC Korea", not so much. Madrid FC can join the zombie pile if we pretend the C stands for something else.

As for "Parishes of Jersey", who knows what they want at the minute. A large part is probably seeing the World Football Cup and thinking "we want some of that", I can't judge that too much with my "Supp. GB" brainstorming, but they should go into this process with a clear goal out there.

What are the odds we end up with a CI, Jersey, Jerri, and PoJ teams all in ConIFA simultaneously? Hypothetical of course but it makes my 'tiered but intermingling' idea for ConIFA membership types a bit more interesting...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 4th, 2018, 7:35 pm #12

Atoms of Jersey?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 5th, 2018, 6:10 am #13

Jersey should be made to play in jerseys and Guernsey should be made to play in guernseys.  This should sort out everything that is wrong with Channel Island football.  Sark can also play in sarks (shirts for all non-northern Brits).  Alderney can play in whatever they want.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 5th, 2018, 4:31 pm #14

It's a good job that you aren't head of FIFA.

(this is the first time I have ever thought this)
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

September 10th, 2018, 5:23 pm #15

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 10th, 2018, 6:12 pm #16

Contrived nonsense.  Makes both parties look foolish.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 10th, 2018, 7:27 pm #17

Also, they have 2019 on their badge, and they've been accepted as members in 2018.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 10th, 2018, 8:12 pm #18

Ah good. In that case I'll mark this all as off topic and move it to the time travelling sub-forum.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 10th, 2018, 9:31 pm #19

"Parishes of Jersey" is an anagram of "Jape Heresy Of Sirs", and also "Pish Faroe Jerseys".
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 11th, 2018, 4:33 am #20

and "Parishes of Jersey FC" is an anagram of "A Psycho Jeers Fifers"
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

September 11th, 2018, 10:44 am #21

mattsanger92 wrote:It is done.
Really starting to lose patience with CONIFA. I may have missed something, but does anyone know why jersey didn’t join CONIFA? (Actual Jersey national team)

They need to start going after members that are, for a lack of a better term, “real”. I think I read somewhere that Hawaii May try to apply for CONIFA. I understand they aren’t mainland US, but if they actually get accepted then that’s garbage. Would be similar to Quebec and Cascadia. Maybe I can form a Pennsylvania team after.


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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

September 11th, 2018, 10:53 am #22

Hawai can be a good member and not garbage....they could field a team of real Hawaians and not Americans...it is a illegally occupied teritory......and , yes , why not Pennsylvania
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 11th, 2018, 11:36 am #23

Eagles19 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:It is done.
Really starting to lose patience with CONIFA. I may have missed something, but does anyone know why jersey didn’t join CONIFA? (Actual Jersey national team)
Along the lines of the Ellan Vannin trajectory, possibly the actual Jersey FA doesn't want to risk having itself disaffiliated from the (English) FA, which is its link to the FIFA world, or losing some sort of related privileges, by associating with ConIFA.  E.g. it could become technically (but perhaps not in practice) more difficult to play against British teams e.g. English counties, and clubs, army/navy etc, which has been their most regular source of representative fixtures over the years outside of the Muratti and the Island Games.

Alternatively, perhaps the actual Jersey FA simply isn't keen on joining ConIFA (i.e. a majority of the committee members are not in favour), so the football people on the island who are keen have formed a breakaway/parallel organization for ConIFA purposes, rather than, say, campaign to build support and then win a vote at the JFA AGM.   This would also have elements similar to the Ellan Vannin situation.

Currently, the actual Jersey FA can arrange matches against British teams (and indeed in principle, any team under the FIFA umbrella), but it can also play friendlies against ConIFA teams (e.g. "Panjab").  It recently tried to join UEFA outright but it made a pig's ear of it  (or it was unfairly blocked or something, depending on your perspective of these things).
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 11th, 2018, 11:41 am #24

Eagles19 wrote:They need to start going after members that are, for a lack of a better term, “real”. I think I read somewhere that Hawaii May try to apply for CONIFA. I understand they aren’t mainland US, but if they actually get accepted then that’s garbage. Would be similar to Quebec and Cascadia. Maybe I can form a Pennsylvania team after.
It is something that I suggested to another American member of this forum - what about trying to establish an inter-state competition in the USA?

Hawaii would be eligible for ConIFA under the linguistic minority criterion  (and possibly one or more of the other criteria, I haven't checked). 
Pennsylvania, perhaps not, but I'm sure a route could be found - perhaps some Vikings once settled there or something.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 11th, 2018, 11:47 am #25

Eagles19 wrote:Really starting to lose patience with CONIFA.  ... They need to start going after members that are, for a lack of a better term, “real”.
I feel the same way.  Though it would be interestign to see which teams are thought of by different people as "real"  - I think most of us come from the perspective of mainstream international football, so we're thinking of sovereign countries which just haven't joined FIFA so far, unrecognized countries which can't, and territories/dependencies which generally can't nowadays but could in the past.   Personally I don't want to see these conflated with diaspora and ethnicity-based teams.

Anyway, it might be a fun exercise for somebody (you?) to make a survey, listing all the ConIFA members, and a column in which we can each tick the ones we think are "real" (whatever our personal definitions are of that).  Or maybe grade them from 1 to 5 or something.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 11th, 2018, 10:05 pm #26

If I were Jersey (which I'm clearly not), I wouldn't be too keen to join CONIFA to play a couple of eastern European entities, some Hungarians and some other people living in other countries that historically lived in another country.

None of these are attractive opponents.

Even the real places (Tuvalu, Tibet, Ellan Vannin) are not exactly attractive opponents.

UEFA is where Jersey need to be - then they can play real and attractive opponents and none of this Panjab nonsense.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 11th, 2018, 10:23 pm #27

There are technically only 6 different categories that all CONIFA teams could be fairly easily placed into:

Sovereign or de facto sovereign nations (Tuvalu, Abkhazia)
Dependencies (Chagos Islands, Ellan Vannin)
Ethnolinguistic teams (Quebec (?), Skåneland)
Diaspora teams (Koreans in Japan, Felvidék)
Historical teams (County of Nice, Franconia)
Others (Yorkshire, Padania)
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 12th, 2018, 4:43 am #28

You didn't say which of those you think are "real"  - along the lines of Eagles.

I thought Yorkshire was an ethnolinguistic team, officially...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 12th, 2018, 6:45 am #29

TheRoonBa wrote:If I were Jersey (which I'm clearly not)
Some people see you more as Sark(y).
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 12th, 2018, 11:03 am #30

For me, the top 2 categories are really real.
The middle 2 are real in terms of people-ness, but not really real in terms of entity-ness.
The bottom 2 might have been real at one point or could be real in some unreal way, but to me are not real in the realest sense now.

Hope that clears things up a bit.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 12th, 2018, 11:32 am #31

What about the Ryukyu islands and Darfur, which are subregions of larger countries?
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

September 12th, 2018, 2:28 pm #32

nfm24 wrote:What about the Ryukyu islands and Darfur, which are subregions of larger countries?
If we expand the definition beyond anything official, then dependencies? Either that or a 7th section is needed, or we just class these types as 'jokers' that can float into whatever category they feel like that day.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

September 12th, 2018, 2:29 pm #33

why is the FA not simply called "Jersey" ? 
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 12th, 2018, 2:34 pm #34

mattsanger92 wrote:
nfm24 wrote:What about the Ryukyu islands and Darfur, which are subregions of larger countries?
If we expand the definition beyond anything official, then dependencies? Either that or a 7th section is needed, or we just class these types as 'jokers'
They're not dependencies of a country, they have different statuses.  Similarly Zanzibar is not a dependency of Tanzania.
"Jokers" is already taken up by the last category, and perhaps also some of the committee.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 12th, 2018, 2:40 pm #35

pieter wrote: why is the FA not simply called "Jersey" ?
Because there is already an FA named "Jersey FA" - which is not a ConIFA member.

And obviously, calling it "New Jersey FA" might lead to a showdown with Al Capone or something.

ConIFA is referring to it as simply "Jersey" of course, in its list of members.  Although strangely they have not bothered to insert a virtual pin into their virtual map.  At least, any such pin is not in the right place if the new FA really does represent Jersey.  Perhaps this is an indication that it does not.

jerseyconifa.jpg
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 12th, 2018, 10:42 pm #36

Just re-reading this Ellan Vannin being expelled from CONIFA thing:

"Accordingly, the decision represented CONIFA’s democratic will."

I think this is an example of how democratic will can sometimes be wrong.  Ellan Vannin's appeal against a reasonable objection was rejected because CONIFA members voted against the appeal.  That doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision.

Likewise, acceptance of members (e.g. Parishes of Jersey) may be a democratic process, but it can also be indicative that those voting don't know enough about what they are voting for and just want more teams to play against.
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Joined: April 5th, 2012, 10:54 am

September 13th, 2018, 2:25 am #37

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's going to be dinner.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 13th, 2018, 4:02 am #38

Hasn't POJFC only been accepted as a member pending the next AGM?
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Joined: October 5th, 2014, 1:11 pm

September 15th, 2018, 12:54 pm #39

nfm24 wrote:
Eagles19 wrote:They need to start going after members that are, for a lack of a better term, “real”. I think I read somewhere that Hawaii May try to apply for CONIFA. I understand they aren’t mainland US, but if they actually get accepted then that’s garbage. Would be similar to Quebec and Cascadia. Maybe I can form a Pennsylvania team after.
It is something that I suggested to another American member of this forum - what about trying to establish an inter-state competition in the USA?

Hawaii would be eligible for ConIFA under the linguistic minority criterion  (and possibly one or more of the other criteria, I haven't checked). 
Pennsylvania, perhaps not, but I'm sure a route could be found - perhaps some Vikings once settled there or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylva ... ch_Country

Although somebody might need to tell them they're using the wrong ball...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 15th, 2018, 1:42 pm #40

That might be a fun spinoff, pictures of sports being played with the ball/equipment of a different sport.   I've seen many pictures of e.g. netball being played in Africa and the Caribbean using what is clearly a football with pentagons and hexagons.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

September 18th, 2018, 10:54 am #41

Jersey could play a 4-team tournament in Köln in november...
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Joined: October 5th, 2014, 1:11 pm

September 18th, 2018, 4:35 pm #42

well **** me, they do play football... https://twitter.com/amishcountryutd?lang=en

DjW01vIWsAAx63W.jpg
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 18th, 2018, 4:41 pm #43

pieter wrote: Jersey could play a 4-team tournament in Köln in november...
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/sport/foo ... n-germany/

"The team, which will represent the people of Jersey, rather than the Island itself,"

I thought the whole point of a representative team was to represent the people - "representing the island" is shorthand for representing the people of the island.

I assume this just means that Jersey natives who live abroad will be eligible, as currently I think it is only people actually resident on Jersey who can play for them (but not sure - Island Games rules are different).
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 18th, 2018, 4:58 pm #44

TheRoonBa wrote:https://jerseyeveningpost.com/sport/foo ... n-germany/
"The team, which will represent the people of Jersey, rather than the Island itself,"
I guess that means they're not selecting cows or potatoes then.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 18th, 2018, 5:00 pm #45

TheRoonBa wrote:"The team, which will represent the people of Jersey, rather than the Island itself,"
...
I assume this just means that Jersey natives who live abroad will be eligible, as currently I think it is only people actually resident on Jersey who can play for them (but not sure - Island Games rules are different).
It could be that, but based on the article we have no idea, because that excerpt is a totally meaningless statement.   They could have clarified whether expats are allowed (either Jerseyans living abroad, or foreigners on Jersey) by simply constructing a sentence with some meaning to it.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 20th, 2018, 11:54 am #46

It will probably be much like the Isle of Man situation - where both are essentially the same team, but one (the original FA) is more restrictive, and both teams share a substantial amount of personnel.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 20th, 2018, 6:16 pm #47

Isn't the original FA less restrictive, in the IoM case at least?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

September 20th, 2018, 7:51 pm #48

The IOM FA only selects players who play on the island (with a certain amount of residency required for non-Manx players to allow them to be eligible for the Island Games).  The Manx IFA allows Manx players who play abroad as well, but perhaps has stricter residency rules as to who qualifies as being Manx.

Not sure - both have restrictions, in a way.  
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

September 20th, 2018, 8:35 pm #49

It depends on your perspective, but my way of looking at it is that residency can be obtained by anybody, in principle, but "Manxness" is by birth or parentage only, so is a more restrictive condition. 
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

Yesterday, 6:50 am #50

Indeed.  Also, incidental births (parents worked there at the time, flight from Ireland to England of a Japanese couple had to do an emergency landing and baby was born on the runway, etc.) are included as counting towards "Manxness".  And someone who moved there when he was 6 months old and has lived there for 30 years would be excluded from "Manxness".
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