Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 24th, 2018, 2:48 pm #51

nfm24 wrote:The old classic: anything that requires a modicum of thought to understand must be too complicated and stupid.
I just made the mistake of having a quick look at the comments under the BBC article... a horrible decision on my part but I did spot plenty of that trend on show in my short visit, including this dictionary-level example:
269. Posted by badge

on 1 hour ago
I've read this article several times and watched the video twice ... I still don't have a single clue what the $*"! is going on and I've been to school and everything!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 24th, 2018, 3:38 pm #52

Yes but at least that guy is honest about his cluelessness.   The ones who can't or refuse to understand - they will be on Golgafrinchan Ark B when the Enlightenment comes.

Hmm. 

Liechtenstein and Gibraltar in the same group, quality.  I hope all these games will be televised.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 24th, 2018, 3:50 pm #53

It's part of UEFA's "Week of Football" concept so it should be under those centralised media rights that the Qualifiers have.

For UK I think Sky Sports have the contract for all the Nations League matches so 🇱🇮v🇬🇮 will be reachable if you have all that and a red button...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 24th, 2018, 4:16 pm #54

I can't bring myself to subsidise the Alexis Sánchez retirement fund by buying Sky Sports just to watch Liechtenstein vs Gibraltar.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 24th, 2018, 4:17 pm #55

mattsanger92 wrote: so 🇱🇮v🇬🇮
Goddammit we've spoken about this.  Just because UEFA are using flag icons instead of words, doesn't make it OK.  At least they have the multi-language excuse! 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 24th, 2018, 4:18 pm #56

There will be opportunities on the 6 matchdays for 9 European teams to play friendly matches (4 from League A, 4 from League B, 1 from Scotland, Israel, Albania in League C).  In other words, 27 teams (all in League A and B, and Scotland, Israel and Albania from League C) will have opportunities for 2 friendlies during the campaign.

One would think most of the 9 teams would pair up with whoever else is available, leaving 1 to possibly play a non-European team or just do without, bearing in mind that the non-European team would have to come to Europe to play due to the shitey flighty rule.  All CAF (AFCON qualifiers) and CONCACAF (Nations League) teams will be otherwise occupied - so South America, Asia and New Zealand are the options for some non-UEFA sparring partners.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 24th, 2018, 4:39 pm #57

TheRoonBa wrote:There will be opportunities on the 6 matchdays for 9 European teams to play friendly matches (4 from League A, 4 from League B, 1 from Scotland, Israel, Albania in League C).
Isn't this going to be potentially detrimental to the FIFA ranking of those teams, relative to the others which have more competitive games?  Perhaps it'd be best for Scotland not to play any friendlies (ever), for that reason and also because all the possible opponents are in higher leagues.

Maybe Scotland should withdraw from UEFA and FIFA, and attempt to join ConIFA under the Old Norse criterion (citing Orkney).  But then probably be forced to merge with Yorkshire and Ellan Vannin into the Greater Viking Federation.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 24th, 2018, 6:10 pm #58

nfm24 wrote: Maybe Scotland should withdraw from UEFA and FIFA, and attempt to join ConIFA under the Old Norse criterion (citing Orkney).  But then probably be forced to merge with Yorkshire and Ellan Vannin into the Greater Viking Federation.
That's too complicated.  Scotland should just withdraw from football, and sell their place in UEFA/FIFA to Lindisfarne.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 24th, 2018, 7:10 pm #59

The band or the island?  I reckon the band could field a stronger team, particularly if they include Gazza.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 25th, 2018, 5:23 pm #60

So slight hypothetical, unlike a lot of popular media article commenters I'm aware of the fact the Euro 2020 Play-Offs basically get filled 'bottom-up' (to avoid a well-performing League B team having to move up to a harder Play-Off vs a League A side, instead the best teams stay in B Play-Offs and the next-best fill any gaps above in A, etc.).

So what happens if for example, all 12 teams in League A qualify to Euro 2020 before the Play-Offs, unless I'm missing something it leaves the bizarre situation that the best League B teams are in the B Play-Offs (as you'd expect) and the weaker League B teams contest the A Play-Offs...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 25th, 2018, 7:02 pm #61

I've seen two versions of the wording of the format, and I get different results from each version for your scenario.

In one version, there would be 8 League B teams in the playoffs (unless too many from League B already qualified), so then both the "B playoffs" and the "A playoffs" consist of 4 League B teams, with the two sets of 4 determined by a draw.  So there would likely be a mix of B group winners and B group runners-up in both "A playoff" and "B playoffs."

In the other version, the 4 group winners from League B would have to be in the "B playoffs," so like you say the weaker teams would be in the "A playoffs."
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 25th, 2018, 7:53 pm #62

Even in the UEFA media briefing guide it seems ambiguous to me (page 18).  Where is the official rules document with the watertight wording?

Your scenario is actually the first example in that guide, and they put NED (the remaining League B winner) into the B playoffs.  It looks to me that was the result of a draw, rather than a necessity.   That suggest my first version above is correct.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 25th, 2018, 8:07 pm #63

A scenario which they apparently haven't considered is the very unlikely case that 15 of the 16 League D teams have already qualified through the traditional groups, and the 16th team won its League D group.

This would mean that the one remaining League D team has no possible opponent in the playoffs.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 5th, 2012, 10:54 am

January 26th, 2018, 4:22 am #64

nfm24 wrote: A scenario which they apparently haven't considered is the very unlikely case that 15 of the 16 League D teams have already qualified through the traditional groups, and the 16th team won its League D group.

This would mean that the one remaining League D team has no possible opponent in the playoffs.
I really want that to happen now.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 26th, 2018, 4:51 am #65

Possibly then UEFA would have to quickly admit Jersey, Guernsey, and Greenland as members and call them League E.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 26th, 2018, 8:19 am #66

This is what happens when you fanny about with something that should be simple.  Why we need League C and League D teams in the Euro finals, I'll never know.  It's good enough just having competitive games instead of friendlies for League C and League D teams without having to dangle that dirty great carrot in front of them.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 26th, 2018, 4:14 pm #67

TheRoonBa wrote:Why we need League C and League D teams in the Euro finals, I'll never know.
Probably it's mainly to make those leagues worth covering at all, for the general media (not just those in the countries involved).   Liechtenstein vs Gibraltar might now be relevant for qualifying, not only to League D teams but possibly on the qualifying can seedings of other teams.

Traditionally minnows have always played against non-minnows teams competitively.  Rarely has there been minnow-on-minnow competitive action, but this will now become a regular feature.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 27th, 2018, 11:41 am #68

Aside from the pathological scenario above, one can easily envisage various scenarios where a team's chances of qualifying might increase if it loses a particular game.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 30th, 2018, 11:38 am #69

TheRoonBa wrote:This is what happens when you fanny about with something that should be simple.  Why we need League C and League D teams in the Euro finals, I'll never know.  It's good enough just having competitive games instead of friendlies for League C and League D teams without having to dangle that dirty great carrot in front of them.
I think if they didn't it would be in a similar vein to the upcoming Champions League changes and I (amongst others) would be criticising them for giving too much weight to the bigger teams.

Because the set-up in allowing League A and League B teams a Play-Off is motivated (at least in part) in giving a safety net to any failing 'big team' (like the Dutch in recent years). If they go down this route of Play-Offs (essentially taking away a few spots from the main qualification campaign) they should either keep it balanced like what they're proposing or don't do the Play-Offs at all, an everything or nothing situation really.

I get the feeling that the tournament should be as competitive as possible without 'carrots', but that competitiveness can also come from offering opportunities, the last Euros is a prime example of that with all the teams that really stepped their game up in the qualifiers through the added incentive/belief, then in most cases carried that form into France.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 30th, 2018, 2:45 pm #70

mattsanger92 wrote:Because the set-up in allowing League A and League B teams a Play-Off is motivated (at least in part) in giving a safety net to any failing 'big team' (like the Dutch in recent years).
Also so that it is worth doing well in the playoffs of the league (and hence the league itself), and that there will be interest in the competition generally, particularly the lower levels.  The worst thing would be to have a convoluted league in which nobody had a reason to care about any of the other groups/levels.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 31st, 2018, 8:52 pm #71

mattsanger92 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:This is what happens when you fanny about with something that should be simple.  Why we need League C and League D teams in the Euro finals, I'll never know.  It's good enough just having competitive games instead of friendlies for League C and League D teams without having to dangle that dirty great carrot in front of them.
I think if they didn't it would be in a similar vein to the upcoming Champions League changes and I (amongst others) would be criticising them for giving too much weight to the bigger teams.

Because the set-up in allowing League A and League B teams a Play-Off is motivated (at least in part) in giving a safety net to any failing 'big team' (like the Dutch in recent years). If they go down this route of Play-Offs (essentially taking away a few spots from the main qualification campaign) they should either keep it balanced like what they're proposing or don't do the Play-Offs at all, an everything or nothing situation really.

I get the feeling that the tournament should be as competitive as possible without 'carrots', but that competitiveness can also come from offering opportunities, the last Euros is a prime example of that with all the teams that really stepped their game up in the qualifiers through the added incentive/belief, then in most cases carried that form into France.
In the last Euros, the opportunities were taken on merit (teams actually qualified in similar-strength balanced groups). Qualifying by winning League D can hardly be said to be qualifying on merit, given that the best teams that have to be beaten are the likes of Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia or Macedonia.

I don't believe in giving opportunities just for the sake of it.  For example, the 9th placed team in Group B (possibly Denmark, Czech Republic, Northern Ireland, Turkey) - don't they deserve a place in the finals rather than the best team in Group D (possibly Belarus, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Macedonia)?

The AFC did something similar in allowing AFC Challenge Cup winners to qualify for the Asian Cup over better-ranked teams who had lost out in the harder qualification rounds.  Their record at the Asian Cup?  Played 12, Won 0, Drew 1, Lost 11. Goals For 6, Goals Against 33.  They did nothing to improve the competition.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

February 1st, 2018, 9:05 am #72

They won't improve Euro 2020, but the prospect of a qualifying place for one of them may improve the Nations League D.  In other words, was the AFC Challenge Cup any "better" than it would have been without the direct qualifying place for the winner?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

February 1st, 2018, 2:18 pm #73

nfm24 wrote:They won't improve Euro 2020, but the prospect of a qualifying place for one of them may improve the Nations League D.  In other words, was the AFC Challenge Cup any "better" than it would have been without the direct qualifying place for the winner?
Tough one, it's certainly a carrot in that sense and you'd have to think that little bit of extra urgency = more interest.

I just think in the grand scheme of things 2/24 places at the Euros isn't going to be a massive difference for providing a bit of consistency across the Nations League (as I said before, something like Nations League Qualifying Play-Offs should be an all or nothing affair to avoid it looking like even more of a parachute for the bigger teams), the larger countries are already going to have the new 'Nations League Rankings as draw seedings' in their favour.

Also the gaps might be exaggerated a little, on their day it wouldn't take a miracle for the best of League D to keep a League B team (or even some League A sides) at least on their toes.

Another question that could be asked is does the incentive help the lower country's development? Again there's no clear-cut answer, but of the Asian teams that benefitted from this, jury's probably out on India, North Korea are a bit of an outlier, and Palestine, in the shortest amount of time, seem to be doing quite well at the moment. Notably all 3 have qualified or are on track to reaching to the next Asian Cup (admittedly an expanded one) on full unassisted merit.

Of the other medal-winning teams in the Solidarity Cup since the carrot got dangled, Tajikistan are still in with a chance of the 2019 tournament going into the last round of matches, Philippines are almost there, Turkmenistan are qualified, and Maldives are out.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

February 1st, 2018, 2:34 pm #74

is there also a promotion and relegation system in the Nations league or was this just a dream of me?
 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

February 1st, 2018, 2:49 pm #75

pieter wrote:is there also a promotion and relegation system in the Nations league or was this just a dream of me?
There is, not sure if it was a rock you were sleeping under? 😉
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

February 1st, 2018, 6:30 pm #76

mattsanger92 wrote:
pieter wrote:is there also a promotion and relegation system in the Nations league or was this just a dream of me?
There is, not sure if it was a rock you were sleeping under? 😉
Pieter, welcome to the forum, where all your dreams come true 😂
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

February 1st, 2018, 7:47 pm #77

Yes.  Now you just need to take the chance to have more interesting dreams :-)

"and the referee blows the final whistle here in Pyongyang, Belgium have won the World Cup, and what a surprise it was that a veteran biologist scored the winning goal..."
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

February 2nd, 2018, 4:20 am #78

Ok, so in a 3 teams group one team gains promotion and one will be relegated....that is why I tought it was a (bad)  dream....and in 2020 there will be a second edition.....without qualifiyng for EURO 2024 ? 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

February 2nd, 2018, 5:06 am #79

Not really clear at the minute on what the next one will be like for Qualifiers... it's a World Cup cycle with a lot less places available so I'm guessing (and hoping) no Play-Offs from the Nations League, but the one after that (2022) would have Euro 2024 Qualifiers like the upcoming one, if that makes sense.

All educated guesses right now though.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

February 2nd, 2018, 9:12 pm #80

Probably in alternate league editions, there would be no point in the playoffs of League B,C,D other than to give a mickey mouse cup, and then only the League A playoffs to decide the league championship will be worth anything.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

February 3rd, 2018, 6:47 am #81

nfm24 wrote:Probably in alternate league editions, there would be no point in the playoffs of League B,C,D other than to give a mickey mouse cup, and then only the League A playoffs to decide the league championship will be worth anything.
That's what I was getting at, although as someone who likes seeing more tournaments around that could be a nice way of putting a bit of silverware on it for those Leagues. Run in the same format as the League A Finals, have one of the finalists as host nation and have at it in June.

Maybe then for 'Euro Qualifier' cycles have the Play-Offs run in addition at the later date as separate to the Nations League Finals (like how the OFC Nations Cup and World Cup Qualifiers 'split' after the former's Group Stage).
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

February 3rd, 2018, 5:11 pm #82

Never, ever, model anything on the way the OFC do it.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

February 18th, 2018, 4:17 pm #83

Old news but an interesting quote in this story:

The two Ireland sides will use the fixture to prepare for the final round of Group B matches in the UEFA Nations League, with neither nation having a competitive match pencilled in for the date.

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill outlined how playing their close neighbours makes sense for his side.

"UEFA have made it mandatory that we play a friendly on that date and when we looked at the options across Europe, travelling to Dublin to play the Republic of Ireland made a lot of sense," said O'Neill.
Not sure if I was seeing things (mainly because I can't remember where I saw it) but heard something about these 'mandatory friendly dates' required to be against European opposition only? The first part is fine (if a little heavy-handed) to encourage matches but if the second part is true then it doesn't leave many options considering only around 9 teams will actually be open on any given date (and under some quick maffs that would leave at least 1 team unable to comply)...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

February 18th, 2018, 5:21 pm #84

Not sure how they can enforce teams to play if they don't necessarily want to.  We might see some B-teams in these friendlies.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

February 21st, 2018, 5:12 pm #85

And the Nations League idea has now spread to women's football - 

http://www.goal.com/en-za/news/planned- ... iru1bxp4z4

A 16 team FIFA women's world league.

6 from Europe, 4 from North/South America, 4 from Asia/Oceania (not sure why they have combined these) and 2 from Africa (too many considering Africa probably doesn't even have 1 team that's good enough to be in the top 16, never mind 2).

I think it really has to go a bit further down than the Top 16 if it is going to have any effect on women's international football in general.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

March 13th, 2018, 6:37 pm #86

For the still-confusing nature of hosting the Final Four tournament in 2019, apparently the only ones to declare interest before the deadline were Portugal, Poland, and Italy.

Pending meeting the bid requirements (which should be no problem for anyone there), this means the host is almost certain to be whoever wins Group A3 which conveniently enough is composed entirely of those 3 countries... first time ever that a bidding war has been conducted entirely on the pitch?

If it was purely down to a vote though (might still be, the article's wording is ambiguous about whether it's a requirement for one of the finalists to be the host), then I wonder if UEFA factor other committments into their consideration, Italy will be hosting the U21 Euros later that month, and Poland are currently bidding against India for the U20 World Cup that year, which leaves Portugal (not that it nessecarily matters) as the ones most available...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

March 13th, 2018, 7:08 pm #87

mattsanger92 wrote:Pending meeting the bid requirements (which should be no problem for anyone there)
I say should be, but after looking again at the requirements that 150km limit plus 30,000 minimum stadium capacity does put up some unnecessary hurdles.

Doesn't mean the 3 bidders won't be able to match it (they all still have options), but it does limit what they can do with their bids, even predictable options like Rome-Naples (which after a quick Google is just over an hour by train) and Lisbon-Porto are too far.

Especially odd when they were managing greater distances in a near-identical format almost 6 decades ago.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 5th, 2012, 10:54 am

March 13th, 2018, 7:24 pm #88

In theory we could see Milan pairing with Turin/Genoa/Verona, or a Florence/Bologna bid. In Poland, Warsaw might host it on its own, or we could see Poznan/Wroclaw or Chorzów/Krakow. As for Portugal, Lisbon could also manage on its own, or Porto could pair with Aveiro/Braga/Guimarães
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

March 13th, 2018, 9:04 pm #89

My back garden is available.  If UEFA pay me £5 to cut the grass.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

March 14th, 2018, 11:37 am #90

Kaizeler wrote:In theory we could see Milan pairing with Turin/Genoa/Verona, or a Florence/Bologna bid. In Poland, Warsaw might host it on its own, or we could see Poznan/Wroclaw or Chorzów/Krakow. As for Portugal, Lisbon could also manage on its own, or Porto could pair with Aveiro/Braga/Guimarães
All very viable options, just think it's more than a bit limiting to what could be done, it takes away a lot of otherwise very suitable locations just because they don't have a similar-sized stadium within 150km.

Even requiring 2 stadiums is a needless hurdle for a 4-match tournament, without it a lot more nations would be capable of putting in a bid, would they waive some of the requirements if someone like Croatia or Iceland threw their hat in? It would be their best chance of hosting a major tournament under normal circumstances but there's artificial difficulty being attached to it...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

April 17th, 2018, 5:48 pm #91

nfm24 wrote:Not sure how they can enforce teams to play if they don't necessarily want to.  We might see some B-teams in these friendlies.
Apparently just stick it in the rule book (not the B-team part, but I'm guessing falling on the same international break as a Nations League match that prospect gets nullified anyway).

Seems ridiculous that the enforced friendlies could be combined with the 'available teams' to potentially create something that's not only unfair and limiting to chances of playing non-European opponents, but mathematically implausible if true, that tweet shows 9 teams who all apparently have to pair off seemingly amongst themselves...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

April 17th, 2018, 6:33 pm #92

Maybe it's a bit like musical chairs, you just have to hang back and hope that you are the last one without a chair, so you can stop playing stupid games and go back to the kitchen and stuff your face with birthday cake and fizzy pop while the other kids are forced to circle monotonously.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

April 18th, 2018, 10:20 am #93

Disregard part of yesterday's update re. my European-only suggestions, apparently England are being forced to play but they get to take the cake with them.
Quote
Like
Share