Luxembourg against A+B-teams combined list 1911-1982

Andorra, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands
Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

22 May 2012, 16:48 #51

According to LFL the 07-03-1962 match was Netherlands B - Luxembourg A and so it is according to this Dutch Wikipedia site http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_ ... tbalelftal However, acording to Dutch newspaper Friese Koerier the Dutch team was Jong Oranje (and this match should be deleted from the list). http://kranten.kb.nl/view/article/id/dd ... 07%3Aa0130
I asked KNVB about the labelling of this match and they answered me the Dutch team is "Jong Oranje". They sent me in pdf a copy of the match report which is published in "De Sportkroniek" (which is something as KNVB newspaper) of 12-03-1962. However somewhere at the beginning of the article is written "Jong Oranje" is a more attractive name as "Netherlands B". That might be the reason FLF thought the Dutch were fielding a B-team. The U-23 (or B-team) is also named the "Porch of Dutch A-national team". The names of the Dutch players mentioned in the article are youth players.
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Sensini
Joined: 25 May 2010, 20:50

22 May 2012, 17:20 #52

Fast Midfielder wrote:According to LFL the 07-03-1962 match was Netherlands B - Luxembourg A and so it is according to this Dutch Wikipedia site http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_ ... tbalelftal However, acording to Dutch newspaper Friese Koerier the Dutch team was Jong Oranje (and this match should be deleted from the list). http://kranten.kb.nl/view/article/id/dd ... 07%3Aa0130
I deleted this match from the Dutch Wikipedia site.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

22 May 2012, 18:33 #53

Meanwhile I contacted LFL about the 26-10-1960 Netherlands B - Luxembourg match they labelled as South Netherlands - Luxembourg and I am waiting for their reply.
I have analyzed several B-teams line ups and here a summary of what I have found.

Austria: Most of the B-teams that played against other countries A-teams contained at least six players who have played already A-international matches. Even though played on the same day Austrian A-national team came in action the teams fielded experienced players. The team that played Luxembourg on 20-03-1949 fielded seven players who had played already A-international matches before.
Most experienced team however, was the Austrian B-side that played against Netherlands on 22-05-1952. Six of the players already appeared in A-international matches before. Goalkeeper Zeman already played 31 full internationals. Kowanz (16) and Wagner (19) were the other experienced players. Even though Austria did not played on the same day the selection was a complete different one as Austrian A- team that played England three days later.

Belgium: In the 1928-34 era mostly very unexperienced teams with only three players who have played full A-internationals before. But always fielding also players who would win A-caps later, mostly within a year and sometimes also in the next A-international match Belgium will play. Notably the most experienced of these sites, that played on 04-11-1928 against Luxembourg obtained the worst result: 1-1.
During the preparation for 1934 World Cup a Belgian B-side fielded nine players who have already won full caps when they beat Luxembourg 4-1 on 10-05-1934. Uncapped player De Vries, however, will make his full international debut seventeen days later in Belgium’s next match. From that moment on until WW 2 Belgium B-teams will field most of the times at least six players who have already played official A-international matches.
In the first years after WW 2 Belgian B-teams are less experienced, but most of the times at least four players had already played A-internationals. It is remarkable in the 1945-48 era notably the two most experienced teams are not able to beat Luxembourg. On 04-05-1947 a Belgium B-side fielding five A-international players drew 3-3 with Luxembourg. When Belgium B fielded six A-international players on 22-02-1948 they even lost 2-0 against Luxembourg.

Czechoslovakia: Most of its B-teams fielded at least five players who have already played A-inernational matches. The team that beat Indonesia 5-1 on 26-09-1956 fielded even three players who already have won at least ten caps.

England: The England B-team that played against another coutries A-teams mostly fielded at least five players who have already played full A-internationals. Sometimes there are very unexperienced sides as against Netherlands (26-03-1952), New Zealand (15-10-1979) Malta (14-10-1987) with only 2, 1 and even no players who have already played full internationals. The team that played against Algeria (11-12-1990) and Iceland (27-04-1991) fielded 6 and 7 players who have played A-internationals before. Also the team that made the tour to Down Under and Asia in 1978 was relatively experienced, always fielding at least five players who played full internationals before.In 1950 England used its B-team to prepare for the 1950 World Cup tournament. The team that played against Netherlands on 22-02-1950 fielded four A-international players, the team that toured (simulatneously with England A) the Continent three months later fielded mostly five A-international players and two players who made theire full internaional debut at the World Cup tournament. Though England B was disappointing (5-0 defeat against Italy B (de facto Italy weakened A-team), 3-0 defeat against Netherlands, 2-1 win against Luxembourg (after being 1-0 down at half time)) seven players who toured with the England B-team were selected for the 1950 World Cup team.

France: far most of the matches with players who never won a full cap before, but also the B-team with most players that will make their full international debut soon. Sometimes France B fielded a team without any player that apperead in an A-international match before, which is exceptional if we compare the French B-teams with other countries B-teams.

Italy: Italian B-teams are one of the least experienced B-teams except the team that played Luxembourg on 15-05-1938 which fielded four players that already played A-international matches. Eight of that team were drafted into the squad that will win the World Cup five weeks later. Colaussi, who scored twice in the final against Hungary, is one of them. Usually not more than two – very unexperienced – players appeared in Italian B-team. As in other countries B-teams most of the uncapped players will play official A-internationals later, only a few uncapped Italy B-players made their A-international debut later.Italy's B-team that beat England B on 11-05-1950 was rather a weakened A-team than a B-team. It was a preparation match for the 1950 World Cup, ten of the Italian players were selected for the Italian World Cup squad, seven of them haf played A-internationals previously. Engeland B was also a mix of A- and B-players.

Netherlands: Most of the Dutch B-teams fielded four players who have already played A-inernationals including also some experienced A-international players. Sometimes the B-team is more than just a reserve team.
The team that beat USA 3-2 on 01-06-1928 consisted of players who were part of the Dutch 1928 Olympic Games selection as yoy can read here http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1068
The Dutch team is labelled as B-team which you can read here too. http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_ ... tbalelftal The book Oranje Toen en Nu deel 3 1927-1932 and 2002/2003 reports on page 59:
Amsterdam, 01-06-1928: Netherlands 3-2 USA; Dutch goalscorers: Freese (2), Van der Griend; spectators: 100 (one hundred)
Netherlands: De Boer (Ajax): Van Run (PSV), Van der Zalm (VUC); Kools (NAC), Vis (HVV), Krom (RCH); Smeets (HBS), Tap (ADO), Freese (Heracles), Van der Griend (Hermes DVS), Weber (Sparta).
The book mentioned the reserves team that beat USA 3-2 was reinforced with some A-players. All players that played against USA were part of the Dutch selection for the 1928 Olympics. Freese and Ghering played on 30-05-1928 against Uruguay, the other nine were the non playing reserves. After the elimination the Dutch played against Belgium (05-06-1928 and Chile (08-06-1928 for the consolation tournament and an extra friendly against Egypt (14-06-1928. In these matches Kools, Krom, Smeets, Tap and Weber also played. Van der Griend also played two full A-internationals against Belgium (11-03-1928 and 01-04-1928.
Actually the Dutch intended to play with many reserves the 1928 Olymic Games consolation tournament. But plans changed when the Dutch had to play Belgium. As this used to be a very prestigeous match the Dutch decided to field a full strengthened team: Kools, Krom, Smeets, Tap and Weber (who played against USA) were also included in the team that played against Belgium.
The team that beat Luxembourg 1-0 on 27-03-1948 fielded only three players that played A-international matches before, but three of them made their official A-international debut in the first A-international Netherlands would play (on 18-04-1948 against Belgium). Eight of the players who appearde against Luxembourg played official A-international matches in the 14-03-1948 – 09-06-1948 era.
The team that beat Luxembourg 3-0 on 29-09-1965 was a mix between Ateam. Dutch team manager Dennis Neville used this match to test some players for the crucial World Cup qualifying matches against Switzerland in October and November. Actually five players who had already played A-international matches would have been fielded, but eventually four of them played.
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 06 Nov 2017, 12:36, edited 3 times in total.
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

22 May 2012, 21:26 #54

Fast Midfielder wrote:However somewhere at the beginning of the article is written "Jong Oranje" is a more attractive name as "Netherlands B".
Does it mean "attractive" in the sense that, it is better for players' morale to be playing for a team with a positive name "Jong Oranje" (i.e. The Future Oranje!), rather than a negative name "Nederland B" (i.e. second choice, not good enough etc) ? Similarly for spectators it is more positive to see the Future rather than the Reserves.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

25 Jul 2012, 16:26 #55

Meanwhile I contacted LFL about the 26-10-1960 Netherlands B - Luxembourg match they labelled as South Netherlands - Luxembourg and I am waiting for their reply.
Despite of the many reminders I sent still no sign received by LFL Image
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TheRoonBa
Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

26 Jul 2012, 00:23 #56

Fast Midfielder wrote:
I agree with you, because "Jong Oranje" is also called "Voorportaal tot het Nederlands elftal" (is "Porch to the Dutch NT the right translation or can you call it rather something like "Gate to the Dutch NT"?)
I think "Gateway to the Dutch NT" would be approximately the same.
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

25 Sep 2012, 15:54 #57

I think it is an illusion that small FA's can answer all the mails about this kind of issues. We just have to do the research ...
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

25 Sep 2012, 16:23 #58

Well the mail I sent I have already researched. Dutch team that played Luxembourg on 26-10-1960 was not Southern Netherlands as labelled by FLF but Netherlands B as some players came from other regions (as also explained in this topic). I wanted them to inform about.........
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Sensini
Joined: 25 May 2010, 20:50

25 Sep 2012, 18:08 #59

Fast Midfielder wrote:Dutch team that played Luxembourg on 26-10-1960 was not Southern Netherlands as labelled by FLF but Netherlands B as some players came from other regions (as also explained in this topic).
It was not Netherlands B but Netherlands u23 (a.k.a. Jong Oranje) as you said before. Source: 'Handboek KNVB 1968'.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

25 Sep 2012, 18:21 #60

Sensini wrote:
Fast Midfielder wrote:Dutch team that played Luxembourg on 26-10-1960 was not Southern Netherlands as labelled by FLF but Netherlands B as some players came from other regions (as also explained in this topic).
It was not Netherlands B but Netherlands u23 (a.k.a. Jong Oranje) as you said before. Source: 'Handboek KNVB 1968'.
Don't you mix up this game with the one played on 07-03-1962? The game played on 26-10-1960 is labelled as played by Netherlands B. In the report some players were mentioned: Coy Coopal, Jan Notermans, Cees Groot and Henk Schouten were born in 1932, Piet Fransen in 1936. So four of the players were already 28 years in 1960 another one 24.
Luxembourg labelled the 26-10-1960 match against Netherlands B (7-4 win for Netherlands B) as South Netherlands - Luxembourg. According to this article http://kranten.kb.nl/view/article/id/dd ... 07%3Aa0155 it was Netherlands B that played the match. Three of the players mentioned (Schouten, Cees Groot and Piet Fransen) were not from Southern clubs and also not born in the Southern region (provinces Zeeland, Noord-Brabant and Limburg).
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Notermans
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henk_Schouten
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cees_Groot
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_Fransen_(Groningen)
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coy_Koopal
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Sensini
Joined: 25 May 2010, 20:50

25 Sep 2012, 18:31 #61

Fast Midfielder wrote:Don't you mix up this game with the one played on 07-03-1962? The game played on 26-10-1960 is labelled as played by Netherlands B.
Oops, indeed I mixed them up, sorry for the confusion Image
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

26 Sep 2012, 06:45 #62

I think using the telephone would be better...
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

19 Nov 2012, 09:32 #63

-> Neil, you are right it is better to call and usually it is. As I was very upset about the message I received I called them immediately. LFL reception was not the most cooperative one I ever called. I will save you the details, but at the end it was told me to address to their press officer who just answered that according to LFL archives Luxembourg NT did not play an international match on 26-10-1960. They did on 02-10-1960 against Belgium B.
->
Sometimes it is not clear what team Luxembourg opponents fileded. Here you can read about the match Belgium 4-1 Luxembourg played on 10-05-1934 in Liege. This match is regarded official A by Luxembourg FA but not by Belgian FA. It is very unclear what the status is in Belgium. In some publications I read the Belgians called their team Rode Duivels/Diables Rouges (= Red Devils) which usually was an almost A-national team. Sometimes the Belgian team is labelled as B-national team
Belgian FA informed me this match does not appear in their archives.
-> On 17-01-1967 Luxembourg played against Germany in Aachen. Official for Luxembourg, not official for Germany who also fielded its A-team, or at least nearly its A-team. Line ups are included in this article http://kranten.kb.nl/view/article/id/dd ... fullscreen
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

03 Dec 2012, 09:02 #64

After the 27-03-1948 Netherlands B played following matches not simultaneously with the A-national team, even not within a week before or after the A-team played. The numbers before the names includes the number of full A-internationals they have played before the match.
Den Haag, 29-09-1965. Netherlands B 3-0 Luxembourg. 35. Aarts 1-0, 55. Aarts 2-0, 61. Keizer 3-0.
Netherlands:
0. Doesburg
1. Quadackers
0. Eijkenbroek
0. De Vries
0. Pijlman
0. Burgers
26. Muller
0. Coenen
9. Prins
4. Keizer
0. Aarts
This match was one of the three matches (the others were on 15-09-1965 against Standard Liege and on 06-10-1965 against Sheffield Wednesday) for Dutch NT to prepare for two World Cup qualifiers against Switzerland. Team against Luxembourg is a mix between A + B in which regular A-international players as Muller, Prins and Keizer were the core of the team.
In this team Keizer played for Netherlands at the 1974 World Cup, Doesburg was member of the 1978 Dutch World Cup squad.
Luxembourg, 17-04-1968. Luxembourg 3–4 Netherlands B. 10. Klein 1-0, 45. Dublin 2-0, 47. Heijerman 2-1, 50. Léonard 3-1, Verdonk 3-2, 58. Strik 3-3, 65. Bosveld 3-4.
Netherlands
0. Thie
1. De Vries
0. Van Stippent (0. Strik)
0. Van der Burgh
0. Mansveld
3. De Zoete
0. Van Egmond
0. Venneker
2. Bosveld
4. Verdonk
0. Heyerman
Substitute Strik was selected for the Dutch 1974 World Cup squad, but did not play at the tournament. Mansveld missed that tournament because of injury. This team was a real B-team.
Eindhoven, 10-03-1970. Netherlands B 3–0 Luxemburg. 31. Klijnjan 1-0, 58. Klijnjan 2-0, 78. Van der Kuijlen 3-0.
Netherlands
0. Schrijvers
0. Schneider
3. Strik
0. Mansveld
0. Mellaard
0. Van Ierssel
0. Boskamp
1. Brouwers
12. Van der Kuijlen
7. Klijnjan
7. Pahlplatz + ( (46.) 0. Bonfrère)
Dutch NT manager Georg Kessler used this match to test some young players, as he also did six weeks before in the A-international against Israel. There were no Ajax and Feyenoord players in the team. Ajax played the next day against Carl Zeiss Jena for the Fairs Cup. Feyenoord was in between the two matches against Vorwärts Berlin for the European Champions Cup.
In this team all players from the starting line up except Mellaard have won full caps for the Netherlands eventually. Schrijvers was member of both 1974 and 1978 Dutch World Cup squads. Strik and Van Ierssel were members of the 1974 Dutch World Cup squad. Schneider and Mansveld missed the 1974 World Cup because of injury. Boskamp was member of the 1978 Dutch World Cup squad. Bonfrère became later coach of the Nigerian team that won the golden medal at the 1996 Olympics.
In the matches Netherlands B played in 1965 (Dennis Neville) and 1970 (Georg Kessler) the team manager was the same as the A-national team manager. Kessler wanted to use this match to test some young players.
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cafu
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 08:28

12 Feb 2013, 08:28 #65

Does anyone got some details on the french team who played this game :

27.10.1963 Esch/Alzette Luxembourg 3-3 France

Thanks in advance
 
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Luca
Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

12 Feb 2013, 10:22 #66

cafu wrote:Does anyone got some details on the french team who played this game :



27.10.1963 Esch/Alzette Luxembourg 3-3 France



Thanks in advance

 
If you understand Dutch, please consult the following article from "Limburgsch dagblad".
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cafu
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 08:28

13 Feb 2013, 13:35 #67

thank you for your link. I do not understand Dutsch but i will try to put it in google translate
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

13 Feb 2013, 18:02 #68

I speak Dutch, what exactly do you want to know?
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cafu
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 08:28

13 Feb 2013, 21:18 #69

I need some data on the french team of this match : who played ? who scored ?
It seems there is only strikers
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

14 Feb 2013, 16:25 #70

only the French scorers are mentioned: Gori, Prigent and Baraffe
France missed also a last minute penalty...
the rest of teh article  is about the Luxemburg team
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

24 Apr 2015, 12:22 #71

Match report and team photo of Portuguese B-team of the Portugal B 3-1 Luxembourg match of 10-04-1955. Portugal B fielded following players:


Baptista, Artur, Galaz, Vicente, Wilson, Coluna, Hernâni, Monteiro da Costa, Wilson, José Pedro,Costa Pereira. Before this match only Baptista, Artur and Hernâni have played full A-internationals for Portugal.
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 24 Apr 2015, 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

24 Apr 2015, 18:09 #72

Also a very interesting match: Luxembourg 0-1 Belgium B played on 01-05-1968. The number before the names corresponds with the number of A-internationals they have played before the kick-off. The ones in bold played the previous week with Belgium against USSR.

  5. Trappeniers  0. Onclin
  1. Beurlet
  1. Jeck
  5. Thissen
  7. Van Moer
  3. Dockx
 
1. Haagdoren
 
2. Polleunis

32.Stockman
 
0. Van Damme
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Luca
Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

25 Apr 2015, 08:51 #73

Fast Midfielder wrote:
Match report and team photo of Portuguese B-team of the Portugal B 3-1 Luxembourg match of 10-04-1955. Portugal B fielded following players:


Baptista, Artur, Galaz, Vicente, Wilson, Coluna, Hernâni, Monteiro da Costa, Wilson, José Pedro,Costa Pereira. Before this match only Baptista, Artur and Hernâni have played full A-internationals for Portugal.
Wilson is indicated twice Image . Juca (the captain) played instead. He débuted for Portugal "A" in 1952.
The article also adds that Vicente was replaced by Ângelo in the second half. Ângelo is probably Ângelo Martins, who débuted for Portugal "A" in 1953.
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Kaizeler
Joined: 05 Apr 2012, 14:54

25 Apr 2015, 11:17 #74

About the Portugal B team, you can view more details, including lineups and player profiles at footballzz (creating an account is required).
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nfm24
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

25 Apr 2015, 11:18 #75

Does the paper give the scorers ?
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

25 Apr 2015, 13:42 #76

Here an article in Luxemburger Wort of 07-11-1932 (right column below) which says Luxembourg and Swiss FA were negociating for years to arrange a match between the two countries
There are also this intersting words from Swiss FA president: "Es ist nicht Überhebung daß wir nur unsere B-Team zur Stelle haben. Unsere A-Team ist an die durch unsere Verhältnisse vorgeschrieben Bahnen gebunden, über die wir nicht hinausgeben können." Which can be translated as: "It is no Arrogance we only field our B-team. Our A-Team is bound by the conditions imposed by our tracks that we can not give out."Unfortunately the article does not tell anything about the conditions. Taking Luxembourg's results against A-teams until 1932 in consideration it seems some teams would risk an embarrashing defeat against Luxembourg, at the time far the smallest European FIFA-member both in surface and population. France started to play its friendlies against Luxembourg with B-teams in 1922 (the results showed the same kind of pattern), Belgium in 1924, Switzerland in 1932 and some other countries after WW2.
29-10-1911 France L 1-4 Luxemburg

20-04-1913 France L 0-8 Saint-Ouen

08-02-1914 France W 5-4 Luxemburg

28-08-1920 Netherlands L 0-3 Vorst

29-05-1924 Italy L 0-2 Parijs21-05-1927 England L 2-5 Esch-sur-Alzette
27-05-1928 Belgium L 3-5 Amsterdam

28-06-1928 Egypt D 1-1 Esch-sur-Alzette
Image
Begium 5-3 Luxembourg at the 1928 Olympics in Amsterdam.
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 31 Oct 2015, 12:46, edited 3 times in total.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

29 Nov 2015, 17:23 #77

cafu wrote:
Does anyone got some details on the french team who played this game :

27.10.1963 Esch/Alzette Luxembourg 3-3 France

Thanks in advance
 
From this Frence site, I have following France B line up:
Charles Marchetti (OGC Nice/Fra, 21 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Bernard Bosquier (FC Sochaux Montbeliard/Fra, 21 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Hubert Zénier (SCO Angers/Fra, 27 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Zygmunt Chlosta (SCO Angers/Fra, 25 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Maxime Fulgenzy (CS Sedan Ardennes/Fra, 29 ans, 1 s, 0 b)Yvon Giner (OGC Nice/Fra, 27 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Edouard Stako (Stade Francais/Fra, 29 ans, 2 s, 1 b)Jean-François Prigent (Stade Rennais FC/Fra, 19 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Roland Guillas (FC Rouen/Fra, 27 ans, 9 s, 1 b)Aimé Gori (FC Girondins de Bordeaux/Fra, 27 ans, 0 s, 0 b)Edmond Baraffe (Toulouse FC/Fra, 21 ans, 0 s, 0 b)
29 ans, 2 s, 1 b stands for: 29 years, 2 sélections (2 A for France), 1 but (1 goal for France A) at the moment of this match.
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Fast Midfielder
Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

15 Nov 2016, 11:51 #78

French newspaper Le Figaro of 06-02-1923 reports of two matches France played the previous day: La Belgique bat La France (Belgium beats France) and La France bat Le Luxembourg (France beats Luxembourg).
(Date correction 26-02-1923)
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 17 Nov 2016, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Luca
Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

17 Nov 2016, 10:40 #79

Fast Midfielder wrote:
French newspaper Le Figaro of 06-02-1923 reports of two matches France played the previous day: La Belgique bat La France (Belgium beats France) and La France bat Le Luxembourg (France beats Luxembourg).
Some additional details about France 3-2 Luxembourg:
Goals: [1-0] Sentubéry, [1-1] Massard in the first half. [2-1] Cocheteux, [3-1] Caillet, [3-2] Weber in the second half.
Other players mentioned - for Luxembourg: Valin (goalkeeper), Schmit and Meyer (defenders). For France: Roëls, Batmale, Petit (from Rouen) and Berthelot (goalkeeper).
The article explains France was mainly composed of "players coming from the counties".
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pieter
Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

17 Nov 2016, 12:48 #80

"joueurs des départements"
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