Gulf cup

Bahrain, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen

Gulf cup

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

20 Nov 2010, 10:56 #1

Where will the Gulf Cup be played: in Sanaa or in Aden : FIFA mentions Sanaa, Wikipedia and Futbolplanet mention Aden?
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

20 Nov 2010, 16:24 #2

It will be held in Aden, and also they were meant to hold matches in Abyan, also in former South Yemen. Not sure if they are still holding matches in Abyan though. The government is apparently hosting it here to test its control of the south. There have already been a few terrorist threats from separatists in the buildup to the tournament.
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

22 Nov 2010, 00:59 #3

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.ph ... Y3NTg1NTAy
Kuwait announced that they might be withdrawing because of the security situation, and Bahrain and UAE were expected to follow.
This was a 15th November article - not sure how credible it is.
But it just shows how stupid a decision it was to host it in such an unsafe area.
Also, from http://www.yemag.com/news/gulf-cup-kick ... yemen.html
"Gamal Al-Yamani, a board member of the committee organizing the tournament in Aden, said there were upward of 30,000 troops protecting the teams and that a joint American-British security team checked all the stadiums to ensure they were safe."
Reply
Like

Joined: 02 Nov 2006, 22:03

22 Nov 2010, 07:36 #4

BAHRAIN's national soccer team conducted their first training session in Sana'a, Yemen, as the 20th Gulf Cup gets underway today at the 22 May Stadium in the Southern Port Town of Aden.
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDeta ... yid=292290
Reply
Like

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

27 Nov 2017, 17:30 #5

S.Arabia and friends not travelling to Qatar for the Gulf cup.....is this a political inspired choice? seems we will have a restricted tournament
Reply
Like

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

27 Nov 2017, 18:39 #6

pieter wrote: S.Arabia and friends not travelling to Qatar for the Gulf cup.....is this a political inspired choice? seems we will have a restricted tournament
if the suspension of Kuwait is lifted before 30.11, they will participate, otherwise the Gulf Cup will be postponed... 
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

27 Nov 2017, 20:01 #7

Surely they could rejig the format to run with 4 teams? Have them play a Group Stage then a '1 v 4' & '2 v 3' knockout bracket, each team gets 5 matches.
Reply
Like

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

10 Dec 2017, 08:39 #8

mattsanger92 wrote: Surely they could rejig the format to run with 4 teams? Have them play a Group Stage then a '1 v 4' & '2 v 3' knockout bracket, each team gets 5 matches.
seems Kuwait can play.....and they are a neutral venue, so everybody will participate or aù I wrong?
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

10 Dec 2017, 11:56 #9

pieter wrote:seems Kuwait can play.....and they are a neutral venue, so everybody will participate or aù I wrong?
Apparently Kuwait had hosting rights before their suspension, and after it was lifted Qatar have given it back to them, everyone now plays (not that their approach for 7 teams is exactly a neat format).
Reply
Like

SDb
Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 10:10

15 Dec 2017, 01:40 #10

Apparently Saudi Arabia is sending a B team. 
Qatar also had some "fun" today when they lost to Liechtenstein in the final preparation for the Gulf Cup.
www.soccer-db.info - football internationals
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

15 Dec 2017, 12:36 #11

SDb wrote:Qatar also had some "fun" today when they lost to Liechtenstein in the final preparation for the Gulf Cup.
Watch them go and win the World Cup in 2022 after all this...
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

16 Dec 2017, 01:54 #12

I hope they didn't choose Liechtenstein to get a goalscoring boost before the tournament (à la Germany).  There aren't really any "real" minnows in Europe (in world terms).
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

16 Dec 2017, 17:25 #13

Saudi Arabia could give as many 14 players their international début - they are also sending the "talent team" coach (the talent team is a "national team in waiting" for 18-22 year olds, who should ultimately progress to the senior national team).

Hard to decide whether to count Saudi Arabia's matches...  I am going with Saudi Arabia 'B' at the moment, although of course the Saudi FA deny that they are not respecting the other teams in the tournament...
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

16 Dec 2017, 18:19 #14

TheRoonBa wrote:I hope they didn't choose Liechtenstein to get a goalscoring boost before the tournament (à la Germany).  There aren't really any "real" minnows in Europe (in world terms).
Made me look up Germany's pre-tournament friendlies out of interest... looks like with the odd exception they did actually try that every time since becoming Germany, but it tailed off arguably from 2008 or 2012 onwards.

An interesting thing I noticed was that between 2000 and 2006, all of their pre-World Cup or Euro intended "Longest Yard" matches were played in Freiburg... and those matches are all the stadium's ever been used for regarding the men's national team.

As for 🇶🇦 v 🇱🇮, just to make the result even more eye-opening than it currently is, the visitors seemed to be lacking a number of their biggest names (Jehle, Burgmeier, Hasler, Marcel Buchel, Y. Frick), while Qatar hadn't really dropped many players since their last fixtures. Also Liechtenstein went down to 10 men before scoring the winner.
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

19 Dec 2017, 12:11 #15

mattsanger92 wrote:
SDb wrote:Qatar also had some "fun" today when they lost to Liechtenstein in the final preparation for the Gulf Cup.
Watch them go and win the World Cup in 2022 after all this...
Liechtenstein or Qatar?
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

19 Dec 2017, 19:29 #16

nfm24 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:
SDb wrote:Qatar also had some "fun" today when they lost to Liechtenstein in the final preparation for the Gulf Cup.
Watch them go and win the World Cup in 2022 after all this...
Liechtenstein or Qatar?
Changing my answer to 🇱🇮, then changing it again to 'both'.

It's possible to rent the country of Liechtenstein for $70k/day (Snoop Dogg once tried but was turned down for time constraints). Privileges for that price are fairly harmless fun-type things as the article describes, but I'm sure if Qatar bid a little extra (very affordable for them) they could say that the Qatari Exclave of Liechtenstien won the World Cup...
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

22 Dec 2017, 17:58 #17

Saudi Arabia squad:
15 with no caps
4 with 2 or 3 caps
2 with 8 or 9 caps
3 with over 10 caps (18, 32, 34).
Reply
Like

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

05 Jan 2018, 15:49 #18

will UAE win the cup with just 1 goal scored? 3x 0-0 and still 0-0 in the final at half time....I hope they do not get this record....hope that Oman will score...
Reply
Like

Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 16:49

05 Jan 2018, 17:17 #19

pieter wrote: will UAE win the cup with just 1 goal scored? 3x 0-0 and still 0-0 in the final at half time....I hope they do not get this record....hope that Oman will score...
final result: 0-0 and yes UAE missed a penalty in the 89 min....
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

05 Jan 2018, 23:43 #20

The highlights reel of this tournament will be shorter than the advert break.
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

05 Jan 2018, 23:56 #21

On that note, and in the earlier spirit of sharing videos from probably-unofficial sources, if anyone wants to kill 4 hours watching a 0-0 draw preceded by over an hour of build-up in Arabic, have at it:

Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

17 Jan 2018, 22:21 #22

Incidentally, Oman's and UAE's reward for reaching the final of the Gulf Cup?  Oman lose 25 FIFA ranking points, and UAE lose 48.  Meanwhile Kuwait gain 33 points, despite drawing 1 and losing 2 of their 3 games.
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

17 Jan 2018, 23:53 #23

Without being arsed to look in to it, I assume this is just the additional games for the finalists reducing their average points per game, with the actual results of those extra games basically irrelevant.
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

18 Jan 2018, 10:43 #24

That seems to be the gist of it - and Kuwait gained all those points (48 actually, not 33 as I mentioned) because they had been suspended and hadn't been playing (all the points they gained came from a single goalless draw with UAE).  The whole tournament was largely irrelevant.  Every team apart from Kuwait lost points for playing in it.
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

18 Jan 2018, 20:26 #25

Really doesn't make sense why the system punishes teams that play more.

Admittedly a team that wins 1 match out of 2 played should generally be ranked higher than a team that wins 2 out of 10, but there's got to be some kind of balance between gaining points cumulatively and an 'average' that doesn't make you lose out because your wins are worth less than previous results.

To be fair you'd need to be some kind of maths prodigy to figure out an accomodating formula though...
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

19 Jan 2018, 00:05 #26

Well obviously any system which can't handle the massive variation in the fixture lists of different countries is certainly inadequate. 
Reply
Like

Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

19 Jan 2018, 22:10 #27

The reason FIFA's ranking fails here is relatively simple, and requires only modest mathematical skills.

Imagine the following 4 matches played by "Fifastan", with multipliers of 3 (competitive matches ) and 1 (friendly match) for reasons of simplicity.
Their rankings points gained in these 4 matches were as follows:

2 Competitive matches
1-1 draw v Poorland (50 points x 3 = 150 points)
1-1 draw v Megalonia (100 points x 3 = 300 points)

2 Friendly matches
0-0 draw v Megalonia (100 points x 1 = 100 points)
2-0 win v Poorland (100 points x 1 = 100 points)

Total points = 650 / 4 = 162.5

In reality, the results in the 2 friendly matches are better than the results in the 2 competitive matches when taken collectively, but in effect, they bring Fifastan's ranking down.  Without these 2 friendly matches, they would have (150+300) / 2 = 225

However, if we simply nullify the multipliers when calculating the total ranking points, better results are achieved.

The resultant ranking would be 650 / 8 = 81.25 which would make more sense - as the team has scored between 50 and 100 points in all 4 of its games.  Without the friendly matches, the total would be 450 / 6 = 75.  So the inclusion of the friendly matches actually improves the overall ranking (which makes sense, as the results are better, regardless of the competition the matches were played in).

With the current system of dividing points by games played, the only way for friendlies not to negatively influence a team's ranking is for them to be afforded the same multiplier as competitive matches (i.e. remove the multiplier altogether and give all games the same weight).
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

20 Jan 2018, 21:38 #28

Or make the multiplier zero.

Perhaps FIFA is actually making a deliberate point about friendlies - in effect their system is saying that if you need to play a lot of friendlies at all, then you are clearly undercooked and deserve to have a lower ranking, regardless of the result of those friendlies.  Or something.

Nope, I tried, but I couldn't defend their stupid ranking system.
Reply
Like

Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 10:46

18 Feb 2018, 21:04 #29

Maybe a better compromise is to split the two calculations - so the competitive matches get their average score as normal, but results from friendlies etc. are essentially given as smaller-scale 'bonus points' (probably on a more cumulative basis with a lower multiplier given to friendlies outside the international break).

Encourages the playing of friendly matches but not to the point that they take on massive importance.

One issue would be where the split occurs (how for example, the UEFA Nations League is classified) but maybe the 'average' part of the rankings could be divided further and rejoined when calculating the total (so a total 'average' is reached by adding the 'World Cup / Continental Tournament' average to the lower-scale 'Secondary/Tertiary Tournament' average, then the bonus points for friendlies are added), just to add some more confusion to the system. Or something.
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

19 Feb 2018, 16:06 #30

That looks a lot like the small print on the back of my electricity bill.
Reply
Like