doping

Intercontinental news and information
Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

26 Sep 2013, 12:37 #51

Just to add a note : he didn't actually play in the match, but he was in the squad.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

14 Nov 2013, 09:37 #52

In his book Voetbalmisteries opgelost (Football mysteries resolved) Guido Derksen reveals from the 1950s up to the 1980s a lot of Dutch players used doping almost weekly. The newsarticle in De Volkskrant does not mention many players did not know their team doctor provided them doping. If you still have questions after using Google translator I can help you.
In this article former Dutch star Johnny Rep admits he used amphetamine sometimes.
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 14 Nov 2013, 09:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

14 Nov 2013, 14:53 #53

It's more amazing that FIFA will send the doping test samples from Brazil to Switzerland, during the World Cup.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

15 Nov 2013, 09:59 #54

As a "Total Football" admirer, I'd be a bit sad if these suspicions were true, but at this point we can expect anything, unfortunately.After reading a lot of stuff from that period (the 1970s), I can remember that every time the Italian clubs faced the English, German and Dutch teams in the European Cups, they always noticed an impressive athletic and agonistic gap. Obviously I don't want to say that all the English, German and Dutch teams were doped, but, after all the revelations that have been coming to light, it's evident that, in many cases, the merits of such great athletic and agonistic performances were not only of "Mother Nature"... 
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

15 Nov 2013, 12:29 #55

Well Luca, Johnny Rep admitted he used amphetamine sometimes but he continued he was not the only one. At post #51 tgere is a link about. If Google translator does not clearify your answers you can ask me which parts I have to translate. In another interview he told when he played with Saint-Etienne against PSV (6-0 win) the entire team took something. Michel Platini was his team mate at the time.

Always other likes of Dutch soccer at least never denied they used something, but some of them even were not aware. Especially not in the 1950s and 1960s. I can tell you the doping story is not a big (unpleasant) surprise in Holland. More countries have been mentioned so it lookst to me we rather can ask in which countries the likes have been all clean.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

12 Dec 2013, 11:11 #56

another article about doping in Dutch football.
Very remarkable part: Rolink zei tegen me: “De directeur van Philips geef ik ook een pilletje
als hij zes uur moet vergaderen of een paar uur moet staan bij een
lezing. Ik geef hem dat als patiënt, dus waarom zou ik voetballers dan
géén pil geven? Als Neeskens bij me komt en hij voelt zich niet helemaal
lekker, dan krijgt-ie hetzelfde pilletje als die Philips-directeur.”’
In English: Rolink told me: "I give the Philips General Manager a pill if he has a 6 hours meeting or has to stand up for a couple of hours at a lecture. I give it to him as a patient, so why I won't give footballers a pill? If Neeskens come to me and he does not feel okay he will get the same pill as the Philips General Manager."
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 13 Dec 2013, 12:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

13 Dec 2013, 09:50 #57

Wow, now I understand why Helenio Herrera once defined Wim Suurbier as a locomotive...
Source: Guerin Sportivo number 1/2 from 1998, page 70.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

10 Apr 2014, 08:30 #58

Hmmm... my suspicions keep on increasing...
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

10 Apr 2014, 09:47 #59

Tell me more Luca
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

11 Apr 2014, 08:45 #60

I'm seeing many things I don't like. Some clubs' agonistic performances are impressive, considering that the long and wearing European season is at the end. I wouldn't want that some exploits aren't due only to human potentialities. I have strong suspicions about a couple of clubs, but I prefer not to mention any name. Football organizations should be more careful with doping tests: the best solution would be if an external agency (WADA, for example) took care of the subject.
I don't know, but... every time a foreign footballer comes to play for an Italian club, he always declares: "In Italy the training sessions are very tough; I've never worked so hard before; physical preparation is the most important aspect in the Italian football" and so on.But then, astonishingly, when you compare the rhytms of play in the Italian league to the rhytms of play in the most important European leagues, you can see that in Italy players just "walk", while in the other leagues, players "fly".
Shouldn't it be the opposite...?
 
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

01 May 2014, 09:17 #61

Hmmm...
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

09 Aug 2014, 08:47 #62

In this article one can read two players of Dutch top amateur team Spakenburg told in an interview with NRC Handelsblad 'a majority' of the players took methylhexanamine in the 2011-12 season when Spakenburg won the Dutch amateur title. KNVB is waiting for the results of Dutch doping authority.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

26 Aug 2014, 16:53 #63

Here an interesting article in Dutch about many cases. You can use google translator.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

27 Aug 2014, 09:41 #64

Interesting. I confess the presence of Feyenoord in the article doesn't surprise me too much. I often take a look at the videos regarding the epic match of the 1969/70 European Cup, when they gave a football lesson to AC Milan. Well, I'm more and more convinced their athletic performance was impressive. Look at their rhythm: they probably took some "candy" before the game.And I remember also in the post match interviews, some AC Milan's elements covertly expressed some doubts...
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

27 Aug 2014, 12:26 #65

The example was Feyenoord at the 1980 Dutch Cup final. However Feyenoord star Wim van Hanegem never denied he got some "vitamine" injections. He always said these injections made him run faster.

Most frightening of all is the story about the 1982 Algeria World Cup selection. Some years later it turned out meanwhile six of the players became father of eight severe handicapped children.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

28 Aug 2014, 08:47 #66

Fast Midfielder, if I'm not wrong, a couple of years ago a famous Dutch doctor revealed that Feyenoord and Ajax were doped when they won the Intercontinental Cups in 1970 and in 1972. If it was true, it would be surely unpleasant, but not surprising: the so-called "total football" was extremely expensive from an energetic point of view, so it surely required some sort of medical support.
Who knows... perhaps in the next years we'll come to know that also some clubs' exploits in recent years have been conditioned by doping. And at that point I won't be surprised at all...
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

28 Aug 2014, 09:17 #67

This certainly won't be any surprise as over the past decades even many players admitted they used something. There are also a lot of examples FIFA ignored positive doping tests as mentioned. This article mentiones some cases FIFA did. Recently one of the Voetbal International reporters asked to himself in his column: we can ask ourselves: does football want to know they use doping? It appears they don't want. Reading all kind of articles about doping it looks to me that doping has been used all over the world. However, tests in cycling and athletics are much severe as it is in football.
Most recently we have Operación Puerto in Spain which also involved football. Dr. Fuentes has always told his clients were not only cyclists, but also some famous tennis players and footballers. The legal authoroties in Spain have already destroyed the blood samples, something you don't do if you have to hide something. Fuentes promised he would reveal some names by the end of last year, but he did not. Real Sociedad admitted they were client of Fuentes in the 2002-08 years.
BTW if it will turn out Spanish football used doping in recent years, I won't believe they were the only ones.
The remarks made by former Ajax doctor Rolink in this post is as clear as cristal.
Last edited by Fast Midfielder on 28 Aug 2014, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

02 Mar 2015, 18:31 #68

News from Germany, but some players of VfB Stuttgart and SC Freiburg have used anabolics around 1980.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

03 Mar 2015, 09:50 #69

The paradox is that only the East German sport has been (justly) blamed for decades. But, according to what we have discovered in the last few years, the West German sport was not cleaner...
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

03 Mar 2015, 12:00 #70

I even read some years ago that in both East and West the government was te biggest doping supplyer, because they wanted to use good sports results for propaganda.
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

03 Mar 2015, 19:31 #71

So therefore West Germans were just slow, due to their Western decadence.
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006, 22:16

04 Mar 2015, 18:28 #72

I wonder if West Berliners were intermediate in performance.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

16 Sep 2015, 18:10 #73

At the 1978 Worldchampions one of the Argentin players tested to be pregnant, which probably makes clear why the Brazilians at the time called Argentine footballers Sissy.
Scroll down to somewhere halfway and you will read: One FIFA representative was flabbergasted to discover that one of the Argentina players was pregnant.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

23 Sep 2015, 09:21 #74

I don't want to accuse anybody, but I know for sure that the wife of one of the Argentine players (a great protagonist in that World Cup) was pregnant during the tournament. Were those facts connected...?
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

31 Oct 2015, 18:52 #75

In today's Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad an interview with Thomas Kistner, investigations reporter of the Süddeutsche Zeitung who published his book SHOT. He says FIFA denies use of doping in football, but Kistner has questions about theincreasing inhuman physical performances of footballers as the extreme running performances of three teams in particular. Kistner mentions Korea in 2002, Australia in 2006 and Russia in 2008. He also hs question marks about the miraculous recovery of David Luiz and Arjen Robben (2010) from severe injuies.
Kistner says he has no evidences..... Not the website article, but the newspaper article also reports it's according Kistner about time organizations as FBI will investigate. They can watch bank accounts.
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

01 Nov 2015, 09:30 #76

I don't remember well Australia in 2006, so I can't express a thorough opinion. I remember well South Korea in 2002 and Russia in 2008 instead.
Russia really impressed me in the match versus the Netherlands, when they showed an impressive rhythm. But in the following game, the semifinal versus Spain, they just collapsed. I can't express a judgement, but I remember someone said they celebrated too much after beating the Dutch, with too much vodka...South Korea in 2002 showed an impressive physical form. I recall reading some declaration saying it was merit of injections of active principles of garlic.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

01 Nov 2015, 11:00 #77

Luca wrote:
South Korea in 2002 showed an impressive physical form.
I also remember the freak decisions made by referees. In particular when Korea played against Italy and Spain. I don't know what kind of dope they have used.
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

02 Nov 2015, 15:53 #78

It was the referees which were doped :-)
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 19:58

02 Nov 2015, 19:36 #79

Well, if I remember correctly, one of them was actually involved in drug smuggling...
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007, 16:28

03 Nov 2015, 17:50 #80

But he kept the drugs in his whistle... the plan was bound to go wrong eventually.
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008, 16:44

20 May 2017, 08:42 #81

There also may be an opposite case of doping. Before the 1934 World Cup the Dutch players got a something which lowered their sexual appetite. Some Dutch officials were very afraid the players could not resist the beautiful Italian girls. This may explain why the Dutch were lustless against Switzerland, as their likes played that match having a lower testosteron level as usual. Nevertheless, the Swiss deserve some credit as in the 1934-1954 era they always finished with the top 8.
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