2019 Copa America

Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

3:09 PM - Apr 27, 2017 #1

So international tournaments are getting a bit like an Oprah audience... You get an expansion! You get an expansion! You get an expansion!
This one seems a bit much even for me, 2016's Centenario was supposed to be a one-off. I'm guessing unless they want to complicate things that the extra 4 spots will take it up to 6 invited teams, there are of course the usual suspects from North America that they can fall back on but also rumours that they might look to Europe for some of the old colonial masters etc to take part.
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Joined: 2:58 PM - Feb 09, 2011

5:36 AM - Apr 28, 2017 #2

mattsanger92 wrote:
but also rumours that they might look to Europe for some of the old colonial masters etc to take part.
Seconding the "back to the origins" proposal, then they could invite also the main African territories the Afro-Brazilians come from (Angola and Congo, for example). It would be a way of not forgetting the past and highlighting the strong links between Africa and Brazil.
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

11:15 AM - Apr 29, 2017 #3

I think with the whole invitees concept they have precedent to invite pretty much anyone at this point - they had to decline but I'm not sure what ties China have to South America. Of course there are ones who make more sense than others (North America, Latin European nations, Africa, etc.) but it's clear that their primary motivator in this situation is $/€/¥/£ (on a football history basis England and Scotland could be plausible guests for their role in the early days)...
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

1:39 PM - Apr 29, 2017 #4

Hmm, I see you are envisioning it being something like the Brazil anniversary tournament in 1972.

As it is entirely about making money, they will only invite teams which add to the marketability.
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Joined: 5:16 PM - Oct 31, 2006

8:52 AM - May 04, 2017 #5

I was hoping for Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana, Easter Island, Falkland Islands and South Georgia.
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

9:10 AM - May 04, 2017 #6

or to take the opportunity to play every 4 years a real America cup in stead of two expanded separate competitions.....(or every two years if they think it is not enough...) the lowest ranked S.American teams can play qualifiyng matches with CONCACAF...  
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Joined: 2:58 PM - Feb 09, 2011

3:48 AM - May 05, 2017 #7

TheRoonBa wrote:
I was hoping for Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana, Easter Island, Falkland Islands and South Georgia.
Considering that Panama is cut by the Canal, also the Panamanians born in the South American zone might form a national team and get a wild card...
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

5:43 AM - Mar 10, 2018 #8

they will invite UEFA, CAF and CONCACAF teams to make the number (16)
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Joined: 8:43 AM - Nov 13, 2017

12:28 PM - Mar 10, 2018 #9

pieter wrote:they will invite UEFA, CAF and CONCACAF teams to make the number (16)
Really hope they invite the USA to this. We really really need some meaningful games against top competition since we missed out on the World Cup


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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

2:40 PM - Mar 10, 2018 #10

USA plays too many games.  Marathon qualification campaigns, and dull friendlies vs uninspiring European teams which often send a second-string lineup.   Some sort of quality control might be better. 

Also there are still relatively few Americans in the top-level Euroleagues, at big clubs.   Addressing that must be a real priority, if they want to step up a level.

Most of that applies to Mexico too.
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Joined: 8:43 AM - Nov 13, 2017

3:18 PM - Mar 10, 2018 #11

nfm24 wrote:USA plays too many games.  Marathon qualification campaigns, and dull friendlies vs uninspiring European teams which often send a second-string lineup.   Some sort of quality control might be better. 

Also there are still relatively few Americans in the top-level Euroleagues, at big clubs.   Addressing that must be a real priority, if they want to step up a level.

Most of that applies to Mexico too.
I️ totally agree with you. It doesn’t help playing Bosnia and Ireland with our B teams that mostly has older players. We don’t have a lot of older guys in the top European leagues but the next generation are getting top league contracts by the boat load.

We really need to start using and incorporating our youth to build for the future.

We don’t have any meaningful games until the 2019 Gold Cup, so to be able to play against South American teams would definitely be nice.


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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

6:12 PM - Mar 10, 2018 #12

It would be better than space-filler friendlies designed just to sell tickets/shirts/beer.    One advantage the US and Mexico have (or should have) is more "tournament experience" than some of the teams from Europe say.   But there is a quality vs quantity aspect, so I agree, competing in/with South Americans is the best you can aim for.
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

7:14 AM - Mar 11, 2018 #13

Eagles19 wrote:
pieter wrote:they will invite UEFA, CAF and CONCACAF teams to make the number (16)
Really hope they invite the USA to this. We really really need some meaningful games against top competition since we missed out on the World Cup
Speaking of, whatever happened to the "$ore Losers Cup"? The USA's schedule for 2018 is looking decidedly un-tournamenty right now...
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

2:04 PM - Mar 11, 2018 #14

USA are planning a World Cup hosting bid, so doing anything that would piss off FIFA is probably unwise.
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

5:31 PM - Mar 16, 2018 #15

The identity of the 6 invitees taking a bit more shape - it will be 3 from North America and 3 from Asia.

Mexico and USA apparently almost certain to take 2 of those spaces, a number of candidates for the rest including (and some of you'll get a real kick out of this) Qatar... Australia also being considered because Eurovision wasn't enough horizon-expanding for them...
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

5:56 PM - Mar 16, 2018 #16

I guess the choice of invitees is based partly on trying to get votes for the 2030 World Cup being held in Uruguay (and Argentina) as CONMEBOL wants. 
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

12:04 PM - Apr 07, 2018 #17

Qatar will be one of the participating teams
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

1:07 PM - Apr 07, 2018 #18

Any chance of Morocco being invited?
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

1:50 PM - Apr 07, 2018 #19

nfm24 wrote: Any chance of Morocco being invited?
Seems there will only be Asian and CONCACAF teams....
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

3:30 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #20

pieter wrote:Seems there will only be Asian and CONCACAF teams....
Current confirmed invitees: 🇲🇽🇺🇸🇯🇵🇨🇳🇶🇦. Final participant probably from North America.

Also, Brazil apparently thinking 69 years is the right amount of time for a curse to disappear...
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Joined: 8:43 AM - Nov 13, 2017

3:33 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #21

mattsanger92 wrote:
pieter wrote:Seems there will only be Asian and CONCACAF teams....
Current confirmed invitees: 🇺🇵. Final participant probably from North America.

Also, Brazil apparently thinking 69 years is the right amount of time for a curse to disappear...
My guess would be Costa Rica or Panama. Should actually make for a pretty competitive tournament


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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

4:02 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #22

Eagles19 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:
pieter wrote:Seems there will only be Asian and CONCACAF teams....
Current confirmed invitees: 🇺🇵. Final participant probably from North America.

Also, Brazil apparently thinking 69 years is the right amount of time for a curse to disappear...
My guess would be Costa Rica or Panama. Should actually make for a pretty competitive tournament


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And some auto-reformatting job in your reply means that USA and Japan have somehow been replaced by Norway...
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Joined: 8:43 AM - Nov 13, 2017

4:11 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #23

mattsanger92 wrote:
Eagles19 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote: Current confirmed invitees: 🇺🇵. Final participant probably from North America.

Also, Brazil apparently thinking 69 years is the right amount of time for a curse to disappear...
My guess would be Costa Rica or Panama. Should actually make for a pretty competitive tournament


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And some auto-reformatting job in your reply means that USA and Japan have somehow been replaced by Norway...
Huh?


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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

4:19 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #24

This once again shows the ongoing foolishness of small flag icons instead of words.
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

4:25 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #25

Eagles19 wrote:My guess would be Costa Rica or Panama. Should actually make for a pretty competitive tournament
Panama are a bit weak.  I'd prefer Vanuatu instead of Panama.
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Joined: 10:54 AM - Apr 05, 2012

4:30 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #26

mattsanger92 wrote: And some auto-reformatting job in your reply means that USA and Japan have somehow been replaced by Norway...
You'll be happy to know that's actually the Svalbard & Jan Mayen emoji. Who I'd prefer to see over Vanuatu, incidentally.
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

4:52 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #27

Judging from recent tournaments, the football potency of Nordic teams is inversely proportional to their population, so I would expect Svalbard to beat Greenland in the next Copa América final.
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

5:10 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #28

Does Bouvet Island count as Nordic?
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

5:47 PM - Apr 12, 2018 #29

Not in its own right.  As part of Norway, yes.  Although perhaps it is more suited to tournaments in the Southern hemisphere.   If they take part, then the final will be
Bouvet NaN-NaN Jan Mayen (possibly after penalties).
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Joined: 8:43 AM - Nov 13, 2017

7:52 AM - Apr 13, 2018 #30

nfm24 wrote:
Eagles19 wrote:My guess would be Costa Rica or Panama. Should actually make for a pretty competitive tournament
Panama are a bit weak.  I'd prefer Vanuatu instead of Panama.
Why not just get Easter Island too?


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Joined: 1:11 PM - Oct 05, 2014

2:42 AM - May 23, 2018 #31

It's only 2 invitees for 12 teams in total now, Qatar and Japan. Japan have a history of invites and some surprising cultural links with South America, as for Qatar it might be a trade-off so the Qataris support CONMEBOL's proposal to expand the World Cup early?
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

11:18 AM - May 23, 2018 #32

You're telling me Sebastian Soria and Emerson Sheikh aren't enough of a cultural link? 😉

While everyone else is riding off their established relationships, Qatar are busy out there making their connections...
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Joined: 12:58 PM - Jan 16, 2018

5:12 AM - May 24, 2018 #33

Not forgetting, of course, Pedro "RoRo" Correia, Fabio Cesar, Marconi Amaral, Luiz Martín and Rodigo Tabata, all fine upstanding Qatari citizens.
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Joined: 5:20 AM - Nov 21, 2013

11:46 PM - Jul 18, 2018 #34

A good opportunity for Qatar to compete against South American teams to begin preparations for the World Cup 2022. I guess, Japan will send a U23-Team in view of the Olympic Games 2020.

I hope, this will be the last Southamerican Copa America. The future is the Panamerican Copa America or Panamerican Gold Cup or Toyota North-South-America Futbol Cup or however they like to name.  
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

1:10 PM - Jul 19, 2018 #35

Phistra wrote:I hope, this will be the last Southamerican Copa America. The future is the Panamerican Copa America or Panamerican Gold Cup or Toyota North-South-America Futbol Cup or however they like to name. 
Call me an optimist but I think there's plenty of room for all 3 on the calendar, no need to get rid of anything.

Having just a "Copa Panamerica" every 4 years (presumably at 16 teams) severley reduces the opportunities the smaller North American countries get, better just to keep it around as a bonus for teams like Haiti that manage to do well enough to qualify.
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Joined: 5:20 AM - Nov 21, 2013

2:32 PM - Jul 19, 2018 #36

mattsanger92 wrote:
Phistra wrote:I hope, this will be the last Southamerican Copa America. The future is the Panamerican Copa America or Panamerican Gold Cup or Toyota North-South-America Futbol Cup or however they like to name. 
Call me an optimist but I think there's plenty of room for all 3 on the calendar, no need to get rid of anything.

Having just a "Copa Panamerica" every 4 years (presumably at 16 teams) severley reduces the opportunities the smaller North American countries get, better just to keep it around as a bonus for teams like Haiti that manage to do well enough to qualify.
Regardless of the calendar has room, i think the general interest of Gold Cup have to improve. To me it is the second-least interesting continental competition, as of 90 % the winner is USA or Mexico and the host nation is 100 % the USA. 
The Copa America is a competition of high tradition, but it is  boring to see the 324th duel of Argentina - Uruguay. 

Maybe a interconfederational qualifier would be nice, so that everyone has the a chance to qualify. 
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Joined: 1:11 PM - Oct 05, 2014

2:59 PM - Jul 26, 2018 #37

They should scrap one of the Gold Cups (two every four years is too much) as well as the Confederations Cup, and with the free summer have a 24-team Copa America in the US and/or Mexico. Invite Japan, a West African team, etc for competitive purposes.
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Joined: 5:16 PM - Oct 31, 2006

9:08 PM - Jul 26, 2018 #38

themodelcitizen wrote: They should scrap one of the Gold Cups (two every four years is too much) as well as the Confederations Cup, and with the free summer have a 24-team Copa America in the US and/or Mexico. Invite Japan, a West African team, etc for competitive purposes.
They shouldn't invite any teams from outside the region.  A true continental tournament does not need invited teams.  If there aren't enough competitive teams, reduce it to 20 instead of 24.
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Joined: 5:16 PM - Oct 31, 2006

9:15 PM - Jul 26, 2018 #39

Phistra wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:
Phistra wrote:I hope, this will be the last Southamerican Copa America. The future is the Panamerican Copa America or Panamerican Gold Cup or Toyota North-South-America Futbol Cup or however they like to name. 
Call me an optimist but I think there's plenty of room for all 3 on the calendar, no need to get rid of anything.

Having just a "Copa Panamerica" every 4 years (presumably at 16 teams) severley reduces the opportunities the smaller North American countries get, better just to keep it around as a bonus for teams like Haiti that manage to do well enough to qualify.
Regardless of the calendar has room, i think the general interest of Gold Cup have to improve. To me it is the second-least interesting continental competition, as of 90 % the winner is USA or Mexico and the host nation is 100 % the USA. 
The Copa America is a competition of high tradition, but it is  boring to see the 324th duel of Argentina - Uruguay. 

Maybe a interconfederational qualifier would be nice, so that everyone has the a chance to qualify. 
The reason for the host being USA is to maximise profits and play in good stadiums and conditions.  As for the finalists being USA and Mexico - it is up to the other teams to get better.  Panama has reached the final a few times.  It's just the way CONCACAF is - there are 2 or 3 biggish teams (Mexico, USA, Costa Rica), a few average teams (Panama, Canada, Jamaica, etc.) and then everyone else.  The best teams tend to reach the final - and it is no coincidence that the best teams often do (USA and Mexico).

If you think about it, the World Cup has had only 8 different winners in 21 editions (and only 13 different finalists).

Only 2 of the finals (2010 and 2018) have not contained one of the big 4 of Brazil, Argentina, Germany/West Germany or Italy.
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

2:34 AM - Jul 27, 2018 #40

or a 16 team tournament with qualification rounds just like in other continents....USA, Mexico, Brasil and Argentina could be free of this ...
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

11:29 AM - Jul 27, 2018 #41

TheRoonBa wrote:
Phistra wrote: the host nation is 100 % the USA.
The reason for the host being USA is to maximise profits and play in good stadiums and conditions.
For what it's worth they are opening it up a little now... a handful of matches will be held in other countries at next year's tournament, like a lopsided version of the Euro 2020 plan.
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Joined: 11:49 AM - Nov 03, 2006

12:16 PM - Jul 27, 2018 #42

so: the nations league qualifiers are also the GC qualifiers....(I hope this time I have it right)
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Joined: 6:46 AM - Jul 04, 2011

1:53 PM - Jul 27, 2018 #43

pieter wrote:so: the nations league qualifiers are also the GC qualifiers....(I hope this time I have it right)
Pretty much, yep.
  • 6 Teams Qualified Already (The 'Hex' teams from World Cup Qualifying): 🇲🇽🇨🇷🇵🇦🇭🇳🇺🇸🇹🇹
  • Other 10 Teams: Top 10 of this
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Joined: 1:11 PM - Oct 05, 2014

5:26 PM - Jul 29, 2018 #44

Generally agreed about continental competitions, but the Copa América is a special case. (Nominally at least) it represents the entire Américan continent, and if Mexico had won in 2001 it wouldn't have been considered a travesty like if, say, Colombia had won the Gold Cup in 2000.

Also the alternative of an 8 or 10-team based edition doesn't work.

My suggestion for another US-based intercalated edition would invite Japan or an east Asian team to reflect the CONMEBOL tradition of doing so, and a west African invitee would reflect the centuries of cultural interchange (being generous with my wording) between that region and the Americas.

With 24 teams we even have room for the Guianas to auto-qualify and the winner of the ABCS Tournament to reflect their unique status in and out of South America.
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Joined: 12:28 PM - Apr 07, 2007

11:13 AM - Aug 11, 2018 #45

What has the Falklands got to do to get an invite!

How about using the existing Copa (South) América as regional qualifying for the new expanded Copa (all) América.
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