2018 ConIFA World Football Cup

Please post any news or comments about alternative representative football here.
Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 12th, 2018, 3:24 pm #351

Interesting.   Actual maths ability in a pure sense is, nowadays, considered less important than ability to do well in exams.   For which a good memory and ability to work at high speed and to "follow recipes" and jump through hoops, are needed. Problem-solving capacity is very much neglected.  Which is sad, because this is really the only thing worthwhile.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 12th, 2018, 3:32 pm #352

Yeah, always hated exams, the older I got the more they seemed to be about learning for the test rather than for the future (combined naturally with added pressure), it's one of those short-term gain long-term loss type things.

Got through most of them well enough but still the odd slip-up, even when you remembered pretty much all the information in the study guides you'd still lose marks for not answering the question like the examiner wanted you to... which in itself throws you off a bit on really easy questions/tests because you start quadruple-guessing if the simple question has any hidden meaning.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 12th, 2018, 4:25 pm #353

I used to get asked to perform multiplications while in the street at the back of my house. Those were the days.  In general, where I grew up was quite rough, and there weren't many clever people around.  Also, I could have just said any answer, as the people asking didn't have a calculator, so had no way of checking my answers were correct...  

I can still do a calculation in the form "double digit number X double digit number" in 5-10 seconds, but nobody asks me any more.  These skills are sadly being left behind and people now prefer it if you can balance 27 knives on your elbow while juggling 10 singing dogs.
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Joined: April 5th, 2012, 10:54 am

January 12th, 2018, 4:44 pm #354

TheRoonBa wrote:I can still do a calculation in the form "double digit number X double digit number" in 5-10 seconds, but nobody asks me any more.  These skills are sadly being left behind and people now prefer it if you can balance 27 knives on your elbow while juggling 10 singing dogs.
That may be true but there's still hope.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 12th, 2018, 4:59 pm #355

Kaizeler wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:I can still do a calculation in the form "double digit number X double digit number" in 5-10 seconds, but nobody asks me any more.  These skills are sadly being left behind and people now prefer it if you can balance 27 knives on your elbow while juggling 10 singing dogs.
That may be true but there's still hope.
I often find that with mathematics, and computing and other such technical fields, ability tends to rise on an exponential scale.

I think of myself as being "better than average" at arithmetic, simply because many people can't do arithmetic at all.  It's not hard (in this country at least) to be better than average. But then these kids are about 20,000 times better than what I would consider good.  They have gotten to the stage where it seems like they don't actually need to think.

With more physical tasks, at least the scale is within reach.  For example, doing the 100m in 10 seconds is considered phenomenal, but probably most averagely fit people under 40 could do it in 20 seconds.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 12th, 2018, 5:28 pm #356

Kaizeler wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:I can still do a calculation in the form "double digit number X double digit number" in 5-10 seconds, but nobody asks me any more.  These skills are sadly being left behind and people now prefer it if you can balance 27 knives on your elbow while juggling 10 singing dogs.
That may be true but there's still hope.
Nice stereotypes of both cultures there.  Far East child-pressuring, American brainless food wasting :-)

Britain is, of course, more dignified when it comes to arithmetic.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 12th, 2018, 9:31 pm #357

Back to the CONIFA World Cup:

Kiribati has estimated that the costs to get them to the World Cup (minus accommodation and food, which the organisers will cover) will be £50,000 (about 56,000 Euros or 68,000 US Dollars). At least half of this will be for the return airfares.  For a group of 20 players/officials, this would amount to 3,400 US dollars for each person, which would be impossible for them to pay themselves, as this would be several months' wages for some people.  Sponsorship needs to be found quite quickly.
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

January 13th, 2018, 1:40 pm #358

any warm-up games planned? so far only Barawa and Ellan Vannin......
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 13th, 2018, 2:28 pm #359

There is "Yorkshire" vs Ellan Vannin this month, and "Surrey" vs Barawa in May.  And a small tournament with "Yorkshire" is planned in May but details haven't been released.   As well as fixtures vs club teams etc.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 13th, 2018, 2:32 pm #360

TheRoonBa wrote:I often find that with mathematics, and computing and other such technical fields, ability tends to rise on an exponential scale.
...
With more physical tasks, at least the scale is within reach.  For example, doing the 100m in 10 seconds is considered phenomenal, but probably most averagely fit people under 40 could do it in 20 seconds.
What is the sport or game where the range is narrowest?   I.e. in what sport are the world elite players only marginally better than total amateurs?

Stone paper scissors?  Guessing how many pennies are in a jar?
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

January 13th, 2018, 3:32 pm #361

do not underestimate stone paper scissors.....
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 13th, 2018, 5:02 pm #362

Good advice.  It should be taught in schools, it's better than Xbox.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 13th, 2018, 6:57 pm #363

nfm24 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:I often find that with mathematics, and computing and other such technical fields, ability tends to rise on an exponential scale.
...
With more physical tasks, at least the scale is within reach.  For example, doing the 100m in 10 seconds is considered phenomenal, but probably most averagely fit people under 40 could do it in 20 seconds.
What is the sport or game where the range is narrowest?   I.e. in what sport are the world elite players only marginally better than total amateurs?

Stone paper scissors?  Guessing how many pennies are in a jar?
I guess with some newly created sports the range may be narrow.  In rollball, which was invented only in 2005, India is seen as the "elite", as it is played in schools there and they have played it the longest, and indeed invented it.  However, in the first World Cup in 2011, India, with 6 years of practice, were beaten in the final by Denmark, who were not even a member of the Rollball Federation, and who only got together for the tournament, being drawn from a skater hockey club (skater hockey itself has only around 10 active countries).  The club had won 2nd place in the 2010 European Skater Hockey Championship for clubs.

Belarus also formed a team for the tournament in a similar fashion (drawn from other sports), and reached the semi-final, losing to Denmark.  In general, Belarus and Denmark thrashed all of their opponents despite not having 'real' rollball players (Belarus won all their games by between 5 and 14 goals, except the loss to Denmark, while Denmark won all their games by between 4 and 18 goals, except for the final in which they beat India 3-2).  Some of the teams they beat (Bangladesh, Nepal) had a similar length of playing experience to India, but that doesn't seem to have made any difference at all.

The sport of rollball is a combination of handball/basketball on roller skates, and it seems that skating ability is very important, despite the method of scoring goals being more reliant on shooting ability, as demonstrated by a team of proficient skaters with no background in handball or basketball winning the World Cup.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 13th, 2018, 8:08 pm #364

There must be other sports where people who have never played before, but have highly transferable skills from other sports, can match the "specialists."

So it should be a fairly rudimentary but obscure sport, and thus the "specialists" will not be professional athletes in any sense, and could be beaten by fast/strong ringers having a go.

Maybe jukskei ?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 14th, 2018, 6:02 pm #365

I thought of tiddlywinks also. 

I guess if "betting" were classed as a sport, this could also be the case.  It's possible to win a bet on your first bet without knowing anything about the sport you are betting on, while "professional" gamblers may rely too much on their "proven strategy", which may only work 80% of the time, and may fail while the novice gets lucky.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 15th, 2018, 1:02 pm #366

Then it's a matter of whether the rules of the sport are in favour of "experienced expert" or "beginner's luck."

E.g. stone paper scissors with just one round, or best of 3, or best of 101 ?
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Joined: November 3rd, 2006, 11:49 am

January 15th, 2018, 1:36 pm #367

nfm24 wrote: Then it's a matter of whether the rules of the sport are in favour of "experienced expert" or "beginner's luck."

E.g. stone paper scissors with just one round, or best of 3, or best of 101 ?
do you mean stone paper scissors is just a matter of luck?
computers will Always win against humans (I read)
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 15th, 2018, 5:07 pm #368

I mean it is not *just* luck, but a lot of matches are needed for any non-luck tactics (human or computer) to prevail.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 18th, 2018, 7:56 pm #369

nfm24 wrote:While on the subject of the eligibility criteria, why aren't they available on the ConIFA website?   As you know, the constitution requires it:
"The Constitution, the Internal Regulations, the decisions and announcements of CONIFA shall be published on the official website in the official language."
Happy to report that the Internal Regulations (at least, those dealing with member eligibility) are finally on ConIFA's website.  There may be other more mundane internal regulations yet to be put online though.  Also the calendar section has finally been updated for the first time in about 2 years, so I won't be nagging about that for a while.

Less happy to report that the website now lists "Yorkshire" as a member.  Their member page does at least mention Old Norse, but does not explain why it is important to mention that in the context of membership. 

I was looking for the minutes of the recent AGM, but can't see them online yet - may revisit that later.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 19th, 2018, 5:44 pm #370

nfm24 wrote:Happy to report that the Internal Regulations (at least, those dealing with member eligibility) are finally on ConIFA's website.  There may be other more mundane internal regulations yet to be put online though.  Also the calendar section has finally been updated for the first time in about 2 years, so I won't be nagging about that for a while.

Less happy to report that the website now lists "Yorkshire" as a member.  Their member page does at least mention Old Norse, but does not explain why it is important to mention that in the context of membership. 

I was looking for the minutes of the recent AGM, but can't see them online yet - may revisit that later.
You're basically the ConIFA Content Cop, aren't you?
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 20th, 2018, 4:42 pm #371

More of a community support officer.   I just wanted to read the minutes of the AGM.  In looking for them, I noticed the adjustments mentioned, so I looked to see what else had changed.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 21st, 2018, 11:28 am #372

When is the match schedule being announced?  This is usually just after the draw (based on a "teamless" schedule that had been prepared previously with teams such as A2 and B4).  Haven't seen it anywhere or any news of when it is supposed to be announced.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 21st, 2018, 11:31 am #373

Also:

I disapprove of the use of the word "nations" here:

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 21st, 2018, 3:13 pm #374

Yeah I would prefer "teams" there.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 22nd, 2018, 4:51 pm #375

Not sure about the 1 billion global reach.  What does that mean?  Not viewing figures clearly.  1 billion people will hear/read about it?  That suggests 13% of all people will hear about the tournament.  I very much doubt even 13% of the people in London will hear/know about it, never mind the rest of the world.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 22nd, 2018, 5:15 pm #376

It's the sort of thing that sounds good to potential sponsors I suppose.   ConIFA did get a mention on the "World Football Phone-In" at the weekend.   They're certainly doing far better than NFB at outreach. 
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 22nd, 2018, 6:30 pm #377

TheRoonBa wrote: Not sure about the 1 billion global reach.  What does that mean?  Not viewing figures clearly.  1 billion people will hear/read about it?  That suggests 13% of all people will hear about the tournament.  I very much doubt even 13% of the people in London will hear/know about it, never mind the rest of the world.
Think they've said before that those figures cover the populations of the peoples/places being represented, so a couple hundred million of that figure accounts for the global Punjabi population alone. UKoJ, Padania, and Cascadia, I'd imagine all also represent fairly large chunks out of the tournament teams but still probably falls short.

If they expand it to all ConIFA members (Yorkshire alone accounts for another 6 million ) it gets a fair bit closer but 1B's probably still a tad optimistic... although I might count as Romani if you go more than a few generations back so who knows...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 22nd, 2018, 6:45 pm #378

mattsanger92 wrote:Think they've said before that those figures cover the populations of the peoples/places being represented, so a couple hundred million of that figure accounts for the global Punjabi population alone. UKoJ, Padania, and Cascadia, I'd imagine all also represent fairly large chunks out of the tournament teams but still probably falls short.
That would assume that all the member FAs have the full control of their territories.  Which is true in some cases, but in others, the FA is little more than an anomlaous  offshoot.  Either way, some pretty shady creative accounting, hopefully that isn't a general ConIFA policy. 


If they expand it to all ConIFA members (Yorkshire alone accounts for another 6 million )
Nah, there are only 300 Old Norse speakers, according to YIFA itself.   Or even less, according to anyone else.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 22nd, 2018, 7:14 pm #379

nfm24 wrote:That would assume that all the member FAs have the full control of their territories.  Which is true in some cases, but in others, the FA is little more than an anomlaous  offshoot.  Either way, some pretty shady creative accounting, hopefully that isn't a general ConIFA policy. 
I don't think it's meant to require 'full control', just supposed to be the scope of people who might be able to identify with [member], which would naturally be a population figure.

Occitania I presume they count as the 16m 'regional' figure when the population of 'speakers' is under 1m, highly unlikely that all of the former knows and/or cares about being Occitan but maybe they're going with the idea some non-speakers in the region will recognise and identify with that flag (and of course stretching that to it's fullest extent by claiming all 16m could do that, technically possible but realistically a bit of a plumbing fantasy).

And of course the ConIFA areas it overlaps with (Monaco, County of Nice, Padania), mean there's a possibility of double-counting if someone wanted to go that route, I'd give the benefit of the doubt in this instance though that that's not the case, the numbers involved are negligible in the concept of a billion anyway.

I'd assume it is mainly a line for marketing reasons (nothing wrong with advertising the 'potential' after all, it only says it can reach 1 billion), but they did use it a bit in the AGM I saw, IIRC it was along the lines of telling the members of the 'potential' and to 'spread the message' of [whatever the figure was then] in interviews and such.

And I was joking a bit before about Romani, but to a lesser extent that could also be a way to boost the numbers, by Vinnie Jones-ing some additional 'eligible population', it's concievable that someone with a Punjabi grandparent might start following the Panjab team under the cultural heritage route.

All creative accounting like you said but it depends on the purpose, it's not painting the full picture but it can just be dismissed as optimism/hyperbole (the Super Bowl advertise as reaching a billion people round the world when that's not the case). It's a higher standard than much of the British newspaper industry if nothing else...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 22nd, 2018, 9:13 pm #380

mattsanger92 wrote:I don't think it's meant to require 'full control', just supposed to be the scope of people who might be able to identify with [member], which would naturally be a population figure.
Each member FA is supposed to be representative of the football public of a specific territory or minority, so the populations of those would be the natural estimates (regardless of who actually identifies with the cause, or has even heard of the team).  For some members, the actual "reach" of the FA is only a small subset of that population, either because the FA is a niche concept not well known in its own territory (e.g. Cascadia) or because the population is dispersed (e.g. Roma, Punjabis).  On the other hand, for some members, the actual reach of the FA might be larger than the population of its own "territory" (e.g. Sápmi).

Also the "global reach" would include people who don't necessarily identify with any member but are just interested neutrals, e.g. most of the people on this forum.  These are harder to account for.  One could argue that anybody who reads a website/magazine where there is a ConIFA article or advert is part of the global reach, even if there is no indication whether they actually read that article.

I suppose the TV equivalent would be to give the viewing figures as "everybody who has access to a TV," instead of a genuine estimate of the number of people who watched that particular programme at that particular time.
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Joined: January 23rd, 2018, 9:34 am

January 23rd, 2018, 9:36 am #381

nfm24 wrote:
mattsanger92 wrote:I don't think it's meant to require 'full control', just supposed to be the scope of people who might be able to identify with [member], which would naturally be a population figure.
Each member FA is supposed to be representative of the football public of a specific territory or minority, so the populations of those would be the natural estimates (regardless of who actually identifies with the cause, or has even heard of the team).  For some members, the actual "reach" of the FA is only a small subset of that population, either because the FA is a niche concept not well known in its own territory (e.g. Cascadia) or because the population is dispersed (e.g. Roma, Punjabis).  On the other hand, for some members, the actual reach of the FA might be larger than the population of its own "territory" (e.g. Sápmi).

Also the "global reach" would include people who don't necessarily identify with any member but are just interested neutrals, e.g. most of the people on this forum.  These are harder to account for.  One could argue that anybody who reads a website/magazine where there is a ConIFA article or advert is part of the global reach, even if there is no indication whether they actually read that article.

I suppose the TV equivalent would be to give the viewing figures as "everybody who has access to a TV," instead of a genuine estimate of the number of people who watched that particular programme at that particular time.
The contracted media partner has a reach of 1bn.
Reach: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reach_(advertising)

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 23rd, 2018, 11:01 am #382

Yep that sounds like my last 2 paragraphs above.

E.g. BBC has a large global reach, but not everybody knows about all the programmes.
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 25th, 2018, 3:09 pm #383

Speaking of BBC, I heard YIFA's chairman do a brief interview on Radio Five (about 4.30pm, in one of those "quirky story just before the news" type segments).  As ever it was just answering the very basic questions of the host, so for me the only interesting bit was when he said that they were "having discussions with the FA."
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 26th, 2018, 8:00 am #384

YIFA seemingly had some problems with the FA - judging by this tweet.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 26th, 2018, 8:05 am #385

Apparently, On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at will be played as the Yorkshire anthem ("On Ilkley Moor Without a Hat").
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 26th, 2018, 8:07 am #386

I fully expect a Perthshire national team next, with an anthem of "lowsan time, wey in yer luggies, merk yer dreels fir the morn".
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Joined: November 13th, 2017, 8:43 am

January 26th, 2018, 8:27 am #387

TheRoonBa wrote:I fully expect a Perthshire national team next, with an anthem of "lowsan time, wey in yer luggies, merk yer dreels fir the morn".
On a different note, I can’t find the Conifa World Cup schedule. Have they seriously still not announced it? Or am I missing something....


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Joined: January 23rd, 2018, 9:34 am

January 26th, 2018, 8:55 am #388

Eagles19 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:I fully expect a Perthshire national team next, with an anthem of "lowsan time, wey in yer luggies, merk yer dreels fir the morn".
On a different note, I can’t find the Conifa World Cup schedule. Have they seriously still not announced it? Or am I missing something....


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Not announced/publish, yet.

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 26th, 2018, 4:49 pm #389

Has it been decided?
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 26th, 2018, 4:50 pm #390

TheRoonBa wrote:Apparently, On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at will be played as the Yorkshire anthem ("On Ilkley Moor Without a Hat").
What a load of old Norse-sense.
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Joined: January 23rd, 2018, 9:34 am

January 26th, 2018, 4:57 pm #391

nfm24 wrote:Has it been decided?
Yes

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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 26th, 2018, 5:51 pm #392

Why do I feel that I am taking part in a Turing Test?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 27th, 2018, 3:22 pm #393

nfm24 wrote: Why do I feel that I am taking part in a Turing Test?
What makes you feel this way?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 27th, 2018, 3:25 pm #394

nfm24 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:Apparently, On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at will be played as the Yorkshire anthem ("On Ilkley Moor Without a Hat").
What a load of old Norse-sense.
They are just vi-king about.  I couldn't resist, Thorry.
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Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:46 am

January 27th, 2018, 4:56 pm #395

Really, on the Lo-ki you should stop making these jokes...
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Joined: April 7th, 2007, 12:28 pm

January 27th, 2018, 9:01 pm #396

Friggin' eck.
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 31st, 2018, 12:36 pm #397

Fixtures are on Wikipedia - don't know where they came from.  Didn't see a CONIFA announcement.
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Joined: January 23rd, 2018, 9:34 am

January 31st, 2018, 1:56 pm #398

TheRoonBa wrote:Fixtures are on Wikipedia - don't know where they came from.  Didn't see a CONIFA announcement.
They're made up - and wrong

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January 31st, 2018, 5:08 pm #399

Why don't ConIFA publish the actual fixtures then?
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

January 31st, 2018, 8:43 pm #400

nfm24 wrote: Why don't ConIFA publish the actual fixtures then?
I can understand the stadiums not being known yet, but the fixtures surely should be released by now.  I would have expected them to have been released on the same day as the draw (as I previously said, A1 v A2, A3 v A4 type fixtures could have been filled in with real team names once the teams had been drawn).  CONIFA may have reasons for not publishing the fixtures - but they haven't mentioned them yet.
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