Robin's grave

A free forum to discuss Robin Hood and ask questions.

Robin's grave

howard hill
Joined: 09 Nov 2015, 02:21

09 Nov 2015, 02:27 #1

With today's technology would it not be possible or at least plausible to open the tomb or grave , exhume the remains [if any] and do a DNA test?
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 01:34

10 Nov 2015, 00:40 #2

A geographical scan has been done at the gravesite recently by an American company which unfortunately has revealed that the ground in and around the grave enclosure has not been disturbed. The conclusion is that there is no burial there. However, there is some belief that the grave location has moved several times. Stone crosses have been found on the high area in the vicinity of the grave site, and it is though there may have been several burials in the area. A thorough geological survey of the whole high ground really needs to be done.

regards

Robert Fortunaso
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howard hill
Joined: 09 Nov 2015, 02:21

12 Nov 2015, 01:18 #3

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it.

If this Robin Hood fellow was indeed one individual and not a composite of different "outlaws" and was active during the reign Richard I and was a soldier
under Richard during the third crusade shouldn't there be mention of Robert of Locksley or someone from Nottingham or Barnsdale area on the role perhaps under another name?
Someone that returned to England after the death of Richard in 1199? Or if Richard did indeed return to England between the end of the 3d crusade and 1199 some one that could have returned shortly before the king and finding England in disarray attempted to do something about straightening things up before Richard returned?
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 01:34

12 Nov 2015, 12:01 #4

The only king mentioned in the earliest surviving tales was Edward. These tales are generally agreed to be around mid fifteenth century. The first person to place Robin in the reign of Richard I was the Scotsman John Mair or Major, in his History of Greater Britain published in 1521. He offers no evidence or proof, yet this idea has persisted ever since.

The earliest historians to mention Robin were also Scots: Andrew of Wyntoun finished his chronicle by 1420, his date for Robin is around 1285. The next historian was Walter Bower, writing in the 1440s, he places Robin around the time of the second Baron's Wars, around 1264.

An English historian John Rous, writing in the 1480s, places him around the time of Edward II.

Many more dates and theories have been put forward, the list would fill a small book.

There is a lot of info and many books, and also a lot of private research going on.

regards

Robert Fortunaso
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howard hill
Joined: 09 Nov 2015, 02:21

16 Nov 2015, 13:19 #5

So, the most prevalent theory place "Robin Hood" approximately seventy-five plus years after Richard I. That would put him in historical time, after King John and the Magna Charter would it not,closer to the time if William Wallace and Edward I?
And would, at least to my way of thinking, reduce the man to a mere wolf's head with little if any redeeming qualities.
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 01:34

17 Nov 2015, 10:40 #6

Hello again Howard, thank you for your comments. It is difficult to place Robin in any particular time frame. Nearly all we know about the medieval legend is contained in five of the earliest surviving ballads, part of a play, and the mentions by the early historians.

The earliest certain mention of him is found in the B text of William Langland's Piers Plowman which is generally agreed to have been written or completed in about 1377. This text mentions 'rymes of Robyn Hood', so we know that tales in the form of rhymes existed at this time. The earliest surviving tales of Robin are generally agreed to be 15th century, but may contain material from earlier tales.

1. We do not know the content of the original (or earlier) rhymes or tales, and therefore have no way of knowing what the 'original' legend was about.

2. We do not know what information the early historians had; was it purely from the tales of their time, or did they have some form of historical record in their possession? If their info was gleaned from the tales they knew, can it be relied on?

What I can say for certain is that the legend was not static in the 15th century, and the story has changed a lot in the following centuries.

Robin of Loxley was first discovered in the Sloan Manuscript in the Sloan collection in the British Library. It was used by Joseph Ritson in his Robin Hood of 1795. The manuscript is usually dated to around 1600 but recent research suggests a bit earlier. It is agreed that the anonymous author of the Sloan Manuscript has used the dating of John Major, placing Robin in the time of Richard I. He is the first to mention Robin of Loxley or 'Lockesley' which he probably derived from a now lost 16th century rhyme or ballad. Loxley is not mentioned in any of the early tales or by any of the early historians.

In the early tales Robin is described as a Yeoman, basically a cut above peasant but below the status of a knight, and he is more often associated with Barnsdale in West Yorkshire, rather than Sherwood.

regards

Robert Fortunaso
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howard hill
Joined: 09 Nov 2015, 02:21

17 Nov 2015, 17:19 #7

If, as stated Robin of Loxley is the presumed "real" Robin Hood and was indeed active around the time of Richard I. Even if he took no part in Richard's Crusade, the third one. And if he was more in the vicinity of Barnsdale & West York Shire than Sherwood shouldn't there be mention of him in the historical records of those places & times under a name similar to "Robin Hood?"
I realize that I am chasing a "phantom" with these questions and suppositions.
However ever since I was ten years of age and read my first book on the Robin Hood legends I have wanted this "phantom" to be real and seeing the Errol Flynn movie "The Adventures of Robin Hood" around the same age has only strengthened that desire.
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 01:34

18 Nov 2015, 11:57 #8

The search for the 'real' Robin Hood has been going on for centuries. I have been searching myself for more than 20 years. The name Robert Hod, Hode, Hood, Odo ect. appears in the medieval records of England, in fact Robert Hod or Hode, or sometimes Hood is a common name.

More than 60 have been found so far, here is quite a few of them, this will give you an idea of what we are up against:

http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/the-many-robin-hoods/
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howard hill
Joined: 09 Nov 2015, 02:21

21 Nov 2015, 16:41 #9

You have been very helpful Mr. Fortunaso and I thank you for your help and expertise.
I am sure that I will be visiting here from time to time and as new questions or information pops up or becomes available.
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 01:34

22 Nov 2015, 02:59 #10

No problems Howard, if you have any more questions just let me know.

regards

Robert Fortunaso
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