Price of liquid nitrogen depends on continued production of oxygen for steel & space prog.

Price of liquid nitrogen depends on continued production of oxygen for steel & space prog.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

June 8th, 2004, 12:21 pm #1

I've been thinking about the price of liquid nitrogen. CI, ALcor, and TT use Ln2 in fairly large quantities to keep cryonauts preserved. The price of Ln2 is relatively cheap right now, according to the internet sources I visited using Google and keyword "price of liquid nitrogen", because Ln2 is byproduct of liquid oxygen production. And LO2 is used in the manufacture of steel and in rockets to get into space. Since LN2 is 4/5 of the atmosphere, any LO2 production creates 4X as much LN2.

But what if, in the future, we were able to get into space without LO2 rockets? And what if we were able to get high temps needs for steel production without LO2 as well? That would lead to price increases in LN2. Since we need to bathe in LN2 for perhaps hundreds of years, as cryonauts, the problem of LN2 pricing is not without possible consequence. This is one reason why Alcor's pricing is perhaps more reasonable than CI's. It's concievable that CI would eventually be unable to sustain LN2 support of cryonauts due to the marginal difference in LN2 cost and income derived from investmenting the funds provided by the cryonaut before deanimation. Of course, the same holds true for Alcor but the margin for error is much greater at Alcor.

No cryonics firm today liquifies its own nitrogen because there is essentially no need for any cryonics firm to liquify oxygen. However, in the future, it might be wise for cryonicists to participate in the LO2 industry so that we have a handle on the situation from the inside. One way to sustain a low LN2 price is to help promote and develop new uses for LO2, such as more steel production, especially within the US. The uses to which steel can be put are practically unlimited but my favorite is a world wide system of maglev rails.

The price of liquid nitrogen and the manufacturing methods and big picture view of what we're due to rest in for a few centuries has been scantily reported on in the cryonics journals and magazines over the years, yet it's a very interesting area that, if covered in greater detail-- including the areas of controversy-- would draw interest from physics majors and others involved in engineering. Cryonics lies at the intersection of many areas of science and philosophy. Cryonicists who would like to see more people join the movement would be well advised to investigate areas like liquid nitrogen physics and economics in much more depth so that new prospects may find their particular fascination with cryonics more easily, apart from the obvious idea of having a crack at physical immortality.

Futurenaut is a forum that deals with radical pro-longevity, pro-cryonics, pro-population, pro-nuclear, pro-fusion, pro-progress, pro-maglev rail, non-transhumanist philosophy, politics, economics and daily living issues. [+]
Last edited by recreation on October 31st, 2004, 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 18th, 2004, 2:35 pm #2

By engaging in a maglev rail project, we would maintain cheap LN2 and make cryonics increasingly viable for millions.


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Rick
Rick

October 31st, 2004, 1:44 pm #3

I've been thinking about the price of liquid nitrogen. CI, ALcor, and TT use Ln2 in fairly large quantities to keep cryonauts preserved. The price of Ln2 is relatively cheap right now, according to the internet sources I visited using Google and keyword "price of liquid nitrogen", because Ln2 is byproduct of liquid oxygen production. And LO2 is used in the manufacture of steel and in rockets to get into space. Since LN2 is 4/5 of the atmosphere, any LO2 production creates 4X as much LN2.

But what if, in the future, we were able to get into space without LO2 rockets? And what if we were able to get high temps needs for steel production without LO2 as well? That would lead to price increases in LN2. Since we need to bathe in LN2 for perhaps hundreds of years, as cryonauts, the problem of LN2 pricing is not without possible consequence. This is one reason why Alcor's pricing is perhaps more reasonable than CI's. It's concievable that CI would eventually be unable to sustain LN2 support of cryonauts due to the marginal difference in LN2 cost and income derived from investmenting the funds provided by the cryonaut before deanimation. Of course, the same holds true for Alcor but the margin for error is much greater at Alcor.

No cryonics firm today liquifies its own nitrogen because there is essentially no need for any cryonics firm to liquify oxygen. However, in the future, it might be wise for cryonicists to participate in the LO2 industry so that we have a handle on the situation from the inside. One way to sustain a low LN2 price is to help promote and develop new uses for LO2, such as more steel production, especially within the US. The uses to which steel can be put are practically unlimited but my favorite is a world wide system of maglev rails.

The price of liquid nitrogen and the manufacturing methods and big picture view of what we're due to rest in for a few centuries has been scantily reported on in the cryonics journals and magazines over the years, yet it's a very interesting area that, if covered in greater detail-- including the areas of controversy-- would draw interest from physics majors and others involved in engineering. Cryonics lies at the intersection of many areas of science and philosophy. Cryonicists who would like to see more people join the movement would be well advised to investigate areas like liquid nitrogen physics and economics in much more depth so that new prospects may find their particular fascination with cryonics more easily, apart from the obvious idea of having a crack at physical immortality.

Futurenaut is a forum that deals with radical pro-longevity, pro-cryonics, pro-population, pro-nuclear, pro-fusion, pro-progress, pro-maglev rail, non-transhumanist philosophy, politics, economics and daily living issues. [+]
I'll look into this.
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Rick
Rick

October 31st, 2004, 1:50 pm #4

I've been thinking about the price of liquid nitrogen. CI, ALcor, and TT use Ln2 in fairly large quantities to keep cryonauts preserved. The price of Ln2 is relatively cheap right now, according to the internet sources I visited using Google and keyword "price of liquid nitrogen", because Ln2 is byproduct of liquid oxygen production. And LO2 is used in the manufacture of steel and in rockets to get into space. Since LN2 is 4/5 of the atmosphere, any LO2 production creates 4X as much LN2.

But what if, in the future, we were able to get into space without LO2 rockets? And what if we were able to get high temps needs for steel production without LO2 as well? That would lead to price increases in LN2. Since we need to bathe in LN2 for perhaps hundreds of years, as cryonauts, the problem of LN2 pricing is not without possible consequence. This is one reason why Alcor's pricing is perhaps more reasonable than CI's. It's concievable that CI would eventually be unable to sustain LN2 support of cryonauts due to the marginal difference in LN2 cost and income derived from investmenting the funds provided by the cryonaut before deanimation. Of course, the same holds true for Alcor but the margin for error is much greater at Alcor.

No cryonics firm today liquifies its own nitrogen because there is essentially no need for any cryonics firm to liquify oxygen. However, in the future, it might be wise for cryonicists to participate in the LO2 industry so that we have a handle on the situation from the inside. One way to sustain a low LN2 price is to help promote and develop new uses for LO2, such as more steel production, especially within the US. The uses to which steel can be put are practically unlimited but my favorite is a world wide system of maglev rails.

The price of liquid nitrogen and the manufacturing methods and big picture view of what we're due to rest in for a few centuries has been scantily reported on in the cryonics journals and magazines over the years, yet it's a very interesting area that, if covered in greater detail-- including the areas of controversy-- would draw interest from physics majors and others involved in engineering. Cryonics lies at the intersection of many areas of science and philosophy. Cryonicists who would like to see more people join the movement would be well advised to investigate areas like liquid nitrogen physics and economics in much more depth so that new prospects may find their particular fascination with cryonics more easily, apart from the obvious idea of having a crack at physical immortality.

Futurenaut is a forum that deals with radical pro-longevity, pro-cryonics, pro-population, pro-nuclear, pro-fusion, pro-progress, pro-maglev rail, non-transhumanist philosophy, politics, economics and daily living issues. [+]
Theoretically, James Dewar (and Lennox and Heath) first made LN2 in 1898. Ben Franklin was around in 1776 so Franklin missed LN2 by 100 years. Franklin would have seen LN2 as a way for him to get to the future, although it is interesting that he Franklin did not actually have himself stored in a cask of wine. He could have-- however-- even as a protest against death. James Dewar himself could have had himself preserved in LN2, although the containers called dewars were not likely available in his time. Even Ed Hope didn't have a perfected dewar in 1967, almost a 100 years after the invention of LN2.
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Rick
Rick

October 31st, 2004, 2:24 pm #5

I guess photography was good enough in 1898 to capture Dewar on film! [+].
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Rick
Rick

October 31st, 2004, 2:26 pm #6

I've been thinking about the price of liquid nitrogen. CI, ALcor, and TT use Ln2 in fairly large quantities to keep cryonauts preserved. The price of Ln2 is relatively cheap right now, according to the internet sources I visited using Google and keyword "price of liquid nitrogen", because Ln2 is byproduct of liquid oxygen production. And LO2 is used in the manufacture of steel and in rockets to get into space. Since LN2 is 4/5 of the atmosphere, any LO2 production creates 4X as much LN2.

But what if, in the future, we were able to get into space without LO2 rockets? And what if we were able to get high temps needs for steel production without LO2 as well? That would lead to price increases in LN2. Since we need to bathe in LN2 for perhaps hundreds of years, as cryonauts, the problem of LN2 pricing is not without possible consequence. This is one reason why Alcor's pricing is perhaps more reasonable than CI's. It's concievable that CI would eventually be unable to sustain LN2 support of cryonauts due to the marginal difference in LN2 cost and income derived from investmenting the funds provided by the cryonaut before deanimation. Of course, the same holds true for Alcor but the margin for error is much greater at Alcor.

No cryonics firm today liquifies its own nitrogen because there is essentially no need for any cryonics firm to liquify oxygen. However, in the future, it might be wise for cryonicists to participate in the LO2 industry so that we have a handle on the situation from the inside. One way to sustain a low LN2 price is to help promote and develop new uses for LO2, such as more steel production, especially within the US. The uses to which steel can be put are practically unlimited but my favorite is a world wide system of maglev rails.

The price of liquid nitrogen and the manufacturing methods and big picture view of what we're due to rest in for a few centuries has been scantily reported on in the cryonics journals and magazines over the years, yet it's a very interesting area that, if covered in greater detail-- including the areas of controversy-- would draw interest from physics majors and others involved in engineering. Cryonics lies at the intersection of many areas of science and philosophy. Cryonicists who would like to see more people join the movement would be well advised to investigate areas like liquid nitrogen physics and economics in much more depth so that new prospects may find their particular fascination with cryonics more easily, apart from the obvious idea of having a crack at physical immortality.

Futurenaut is a forum that deals with radical pro-longevity, pro-cryonics, pro-population, pro-nuclear, pro-fusion, pro-progress, pro-maglev rail, non-transhumanist philosophy, politics, economics and daily living issues. [+]
Here's a neat chart showing the history of the liquification of gases. [+]
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Joined: October 8th, 2004, 4:23 pm

October 31st, 2004, 4:17 pm #7

I guess photography was good enough in 1898 to capture Dewar on film! [+].
was invented around the turn of the century, certainly in full swing by the civil war and probably quite perfected by 1898.
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Rick
Rick

October 31st, 2004, 5:39 pm #8

?
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Mark Plus
Mark Plus

November 1st, 2004, 4:05 am #9

I've been thinking about the price of liquid nitrogen. CI, ALcor, and TT use Ln2 in fairly large quantities to keep cryonauts preserved. The price of Ln2 is relatively cheap right now, according to the internet sources I visited using Google and keyword "price of liquid nitrogen", because Ln2 is byproduct of liquid oxygen production. And LO2 is used in the manufacture of steel and in rockets to get into space. Since LN2 is 4/5 of the atmosphere, any LO2 production creates 4X as much LN2.

But what if, in the future, we were able to get into space without LO2 rockets? And what if we were able to get high temps needs for steel production without LO2 as well? That would lead to price increases in LN2. Since we need to bathe in LN2 for perhaps hundreds of years, as cryonauts, the problem of LN2 pricing is not without possible consequence. This is one reason why Alcor's pricing is perhaps more reasonable than CI's. It's concievable that CI would eventually be unable to sustain LN2 support of cryonauts due to the marginal difference in LN2 cost and income derived from investmenting the funds provided by the cryonaut before deanimation. Of course, the same holds true for Alcor but the margin for error is much greater at Alcor.

No cryonics firm today liquifies its own nitrogen because there is essentially no need for any cryonics firm to liquify oxygen. However, in the future, it might be wise for cryonicists to participate in the LO2 industry so that we have a handle on the situation from the inside. One way to sustain a low LN2 price is to help promote and develop new uses for LO2, such as more steel production, especially within the US. The uses to which steel can be put are practically unlimited but my favorite is a world wide system of maglev rails.

The price of liquid nitrogen and the manufacturing methods and big picture view of what we're due to rest in for a few centuries has been scantily reported on in the cryonics journals and magazines over the years, yet it's a very interesting area that, if covered in greater detail-- including the areas of controversy-- would draw interest from physics majors and others involved in engineering. Cryonics lies at the intersection of many areas of science and philosophy. Cryonicists who would like to see more people join the movement would be well advised to investigate areas like liquid nitrogen physics and economics in much more depth so that new prospects may find their particular fascination with cryonics more easily, apart from the obvious idea of having a crack at physical immortality.

Futurenaut is a forum that deals with radical pro-longevity, pro-cryonics, pro-population, pro-nuclear, pro-fusion, pro-progress, pro-maglev rail, non-transhumanist philosophy, politics, economics and daily living issues. [+]
If we're near Peak Oil, I suspect all current cryonic suspensions will be terminated by 2020 at the latest because liquid nitrogen -- a very energy intensive commodity -- will no longer be manufactured, much as our civilization has relinquished commercial supersonic transport (the Concorde) for reasons of declining net energy supplies.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

November 1st, 2004, 3:18 pm #10

...and work on low-energy survival methods for the coming Dark Age since cryonics obviously won't survive? Your only logical move at this point is to quit your Alcor membership and use all available funds to create a survival-community isn't it?
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