OK, question for the believers

OK, question for the believers

TWrelated
TWrelated

March 16th, 2004, 3:50 am #1

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
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Rick
Rick

March 16th, 2004, 4:04 am #2

I think you'll find a diversity of answers to your question within the exciting and futuristic cryonics community. My own answer revolves around the idea of agape. But rather than get into that now, I'll let it hang a bit, just for the suspense(ion). I wonder what 21cman, Moose, Ray and Tex and Maniac's answers will be to your question. We're certainly not of one mind on this by any measure. Saul Kent's and Bill Faloon's answer is a Swiss bank account, and something called Reanimation Foundation-- if that helps you to understand some of the thinking on that.
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Texas Cryo
Texas Cryo

March 16th, 2004, 4:09 am #3

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
Suppose I go buy a $5 digital watch, and if I were able to travel back in time 100 years. how much gold could I get for that watch 100 years ago?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

March 16th, 2004, 4:11 am #4

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
"The problems of victory are more agreeable than those of defeat, but they are no less difficult."
- Winston Churchill

<< Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? >>

No answer is provided in the paperwork that Alcor has you sign. I wish something were. Maybe it might be a good idea for cryonicists to write and sign their own contracts? Something along the lines of "I agree to pay X amount of money upon my revival, adjusted at the inflation rate of X% per year, to whichever individual or entity pays for reviving me". If someone with legal knowledge could draw up a document like this and put it on the web, I'd print it, sign it, get it notarized, and make it public knowledge that I had signed it.

<< How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone? >>

This is the problem of life itself, coming into the world with nothing. Most of of manage to solve it. The situation is a bit different though because most of us have parents to provide for us for many years. But I do think that to "come into the world" with the knowledge I have today but nobody to subsidize me (parents) puts me in a better position then being born with no knowledge and having parents. I see some homeless people living on the street who have not solves this central problem of how to take care of themselves, and even in that worst case scenerio, I'd rather be one of them then rotting in a coffin.

<< I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival? >>

It's a very good question and one that will have to be addressed at some point.
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Ray
Ray

March 16th, 2004, 4:22 am #5

A very good question indeed. I am afraid I do not have an answer. I have considered the Kent/Faloon solutions or maybe I will just hold on to my MicroSoft stock.
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Non E. Moose
Non E. Moose

March 16th, 2004, 4:56 am #6

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
First you take the chance that you can ever be revived at all. Then, you also take the chance that in a few decades or centuries if/when you are able to be revived, society will be sufficiently mature and advanced to -care- about you. Or, perhaps you wait a few more decades or centuries at which time the technology for revival for your particular situation is dirt cheap.

What can just as easily happen is that you will get the same respect current civilization gives to the mummified Egyptians (none). Also maybe no way will ever be found to turn near-hamburger into young, youthful muscle and tissue. Worse yet, civilization may turn totally primitive and so life-adverse that wars will prevail, bodies will be thawed, liquid nitrogen will become unavailable, etc. etc. And then there is of course the likelihood of the Singularity within this century - with a very good chance that it will not find the continuation of human existence of any value whatsoever, not even via uploading of consciousness into machines (assuming that is a favorable prospect in and of itself).

Having said that, I doubt there are very many cryonicists out there who are unaware of the negative prospects. We just like to have some hope, and to leave the possibilities open, rather than finalizing them by things like cremation and embalming/burial. And we do what we think might maximize our chances, such as improved techiques, reanimation trusts, etc.
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Maniac
Maniac

March 16th, 2004, 5:44 am #7

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
Here's my answer(s).

The patient care trust (http://alcor.org/Library/html/patientcaretrust.htm) would be used for reanimation if possible.

Also, individual cryonics members, acting on their own, can set up trusts in states/countries that allow perpetuties. If the trust were written right, the funds would be used for reanimation and then spending money after reanimation.

No one knows how much reanimation would cost, if it becomes possible at all. There are some senarios in which it would be extremly cheap. Certain the costs of technology have fallen over the decades, even as the power of technology has increase (although this doesn't appear to have translated into health care costs!)

Or cryonics reanimation may be possible with technology, but so expensive it that it is totally unfeasible in practice.

But you might consider this: If patients with TODAY's cryoperservation technics are even reanimated, it is likely that mature nanotechnology will be prefected. In such a nanotech world, money itself may be of very little importance. This is hard to imagine, even for me, since money is very important in my life today. But you might consider reading:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0 ... rintable=1

This article covers these issues very well. Reading it made me think about the difference between money and wealth.

Thanks for asking such a good question in a very positive and friendly manner.

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TWrelated
TWrelated

March 16th, 2004, 3:00 pm #8

So, you pay your money to Alcor to be preserved for sometime in the future, 100, 200 years, whatever it takes.

Then science comes to a point where they can revive you.

Where does the money for those expensive treatments come from? Who pays for the medical care to rehabilitate and get you fully functioning? How do you support yourself in this new life, without an estate, without family, with everyone who might ever have know of you long gone?

I'm not trying to be silly. This dawned on me this morning in regards to my own family, TW and JHW. How does one finance their own revival?

Is that provided for in the Alcor plan?
In my lifetime I've watched costs for things increase at least 10 fold: candy bars, comic books, gasoline, Levis, records (lps toCDs), homes, etc.

A couple years ago I had a mild heart attack. Went to the emergency room Monday evening, sat there until 2:30 in the morning when they finally took me to a room, Tueday morning had a stint put in an artery, released Wednesday morning, all the while not feeling all that bad, just funny.

Cost? $68,000.00

That means but the time my kids age and have their heart attacks in the next generation, following the 10 fold rule, its going to cost them $680,000.00 for the same treatment.

And the generation after that?

Now that proceedure was fairly standard and routine, yet quite expensive. Almost run of the mill. I can't image reanimating a human is going to be simply a matter of hooking up the jumper cables and firing them up.

As far as relying on the benevolence of science, I think it's pretty unlikely. There has been great progress in developing medications to maintain the lifes of AIDS patients, but they are not distributed without paying a high price.

Health care, like most human functions operates on one principle: profit.

The more the merrier.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 16th, 2004, 3:06 pm #9

....does not operate on profit at all. The USA, currently the record holder in the world for having the longest running constitution, actually refers to the General Welfare in the preamble. Only in a corporate-fascist junta would health care be strictly a matter of profit.
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TWrelated
TWrelated

March 16th, 2004, 3:09 pm #10

Suppose I go buy a $5 digital watch, and if I were able to travel back in time 100 years. how much gold could I get for that watch 100 years ago?
I'm willing to accept it could be possible, now I'm trying to think through to the other side of the equation.

More probable than the time machine actually.
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