I just got my latest issue and will review it here very soon.

I just got my latest issue and will review it here very soon.

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 20th, 2004, 7:19 pm #1

I'm busy reading for now.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 20th, 2004, 8:40 pm #2

I would rather have seen up to date interviews with Quaife and Nelson. The most updated idea was Grigg's article on Bedfore. The Nelson reprint took over half of the issue, but Shumaker's report was one column and the Stump update was 12 lines. I don't know-- something isn't going to fly here. You can't run a publication on reprints and ignore current reality. Historical events should always be written about from today's point of view.
Last edited by recreation on April 20th, 2004, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 21st, 2004, 1:21 am #3

I'm busy reading for now.
P. 30, the final page of the issue-- Turn to it. Read what I presume is Perry's article.

"Physical immortality" he says "refers (mainly) to a condition in which there is no progressive weakening of the body..." and "this does not mean that death is impossible". Well, I don't know who hired Mike Perry as a dictionary or encyclopedia consultant, but I think this type of compromising statement is going to be a problem. You can't say that you want physical immortality and then hedge your statment with "well, it doesn't really mean this or that, or mainly this or that, or whatever". Perry should get tap dance shoes, a tophead and a cane. He can tapdance in Alcor's parking lot and sing "Razzle Dazzle" like Richard Gere in Chicago. I'll bring the videocamera so we can all watch.

Physical immortality means what it says. That's it. There is no tapdance that will entertain me enough to redirect my attention. The Extropians in the early 90's were more on target in this sense than the editors of PI magazine. In the early 90's the Extropians wanted to transcend even the laws of nature itself to dominate the system that is nature, in order to prevent personal death and prevent any limitation. THAT was more consistent with "physical immortality" than what Mike's watered down version is.

Whoever wrote this editorial, (presumably Mike) makes so many twists and turns in this piece that it's more impressive than a Toyota commercial. In the end, he does a 180, for example, and says that the "physical elimination of death" is a consideration that should be made and writes that "attaining eternal life through science" is the concern of Venturists.

I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't promote physical immortality and then water it down, at the same time referring to physical immortality in other words like "physical elimination of death" and "eternal life through science". Conquering death, and becoming immortal, means just what it says. No compromise should be made.

Of course, this is a problem for a cryonicist because Alcor itself does not subscribe to physical immortality. We're caught in a knot of conceptual problems. The Venturist idea was good at one time but due to inconsistencies with Alcor and internal inconsistencies as noted above, I might have to pump up the Cryonics Church which make ONE central claim-- that human memory and personality are embedded in preservable and reanimatable brain and CNS structure. We had better hurry up on the religious defense of cryonics because Stump may come at us again in 2005 and we'll need this defense I think, in addition to the scientific ones. The Venturist position on physical immortality may not help cryonics, given its problematic assertions and variance with Alcor policy.

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 21st, 2004, 1:39 am #4

I'm busy reading for now.
I liked Tom Donaldson's selection for a book review and the review itself. I think the editors of PI did a good job on selecting this article for publication. I just wish Donaldson would have commented on how it relates to cryonics, in the final paragraph by saying something like "Figuring out how consiousness works isn't neccessary for cryonics to "work". However it happens, we're committed, as cryonicts, to saving all the bits and pieces so that future reanimation specialists can kick us into gear again". Every article in PI should have a statement that delivers the context of the article. Every author ought to be identified as a cryonicist with a particular group. After all, that's what we're promoting here isn't it?
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Jonathan
Jonathan

April 21st, 2004, 11:16 pm #5


Why should the whole kit and kaboodle revolve around low-temp preservation? If some other method of metabolic suspension via chemistry or nanotech comes along, the importance of brain structure or identity storage remains. There's no need to exalt a single strategy, is there?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 23rd, 2004, 4:57 pm #6

I'm busy reading for now.
Is he still active in cryonics and/ or a member?
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Rick
Rick

April 23rd, 2004, 5:23 pm #7

I forget what the event was, but Quaife visited Ventureville about 6 months ago and pictures were posted. He's looking less heavy but okay, I guess. I don't think he's written anything for years though. I'd like to see an up to date piece by him. I don't know if he's signed up with Alcor or not. John Grigg and Dave Pizer would know. Quaife also had developed an investment computer program that was very successful (before the crash) that he wouldn't tell me more about when I emailed him and asked him. If it actually worked like he said it did, he should be very wealthy by now if he didn't lose it all in the crash. I think he may have had some BioTime stock-- can't be sure though-- as well as Mark Voelker and others. BioTime has since tanked and a lot of the cryonics people who had shares didn't know when to get out. Paul Segall himself got out too late and, by my analysis, lost a lot of money before he had that ballooned artery. By the way, the exact balooning of an artery that Paul had is now easily fixed at AZ Heart Institute. I wonder if he had had that diagnosed and fixed here, would he still be alive now? I haven't seen anyone analyze Paul's situation. Quaife might know more. Someone should interview Quaife. The reprinted article and old pic in the PI mag disappointed me because it's not up to date. It takes more than reprints to make a magazine. I wonder how long PI will survive. I suppose it could be financed in an ongoing fashion for as long as Dave Pizer backs it as a vanity project. A real magazine wouldn't survive under that editorial policy though.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 23rd, 2004, 5:28 pm #8

Thanks for the update.
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John Grigg
John Grigg

April 25th, 2004, 7:53 am #9

I forget what the event was, but Quaife visited Ventureville about 6 months ago and pictures were posted. He's looking less heavy but okay, I guess. I don't think he's written anything for years though. I'd like to see an up to date piece by him. I don't know if he's signed up with Alcor or not. John Grigg and Dave Pizer would know. Quaife also had developed an investment computer program that was very successful (before the crash) that he wouldn't tell me more about when I emailed him and asked him. If it actually worked like he said it did, he should be very wealthy by now if he didn't lose it all in the crash. I think he may have had some BioTime stock-- can't be sure though-- as well as Mark Voelker and others. BioTime has since tanked and a lot of the cryonics people who had shares didn't know when to get out. Paul Segall himself got out too late and, by my analysis, lost a lot of money before he had that ballooned artery. By the way, the exact balooning of an artery that Paul had is now easily fixed at AZ Heart Institute. I wonder if he had had that diagnosed and fixed here, would he still be alive now? I haven't seen anyone analyze Paul's situation. Quaife might know more. Someone should interview Quaife. The reprinted article and old pic in the PI mag disappointed me because it's not up to date. It takes more than reprints to make a magazine. I wonder how long PI will survive. I suppose it could be financed in an ongoing fashion for as long as Dave Pizer backs it as a vanity project. A real magazine wouldn't survive under that editorial policy though.
Rick Potvin wrote:
The reprinted article and old pic in the PI mag disappointed me because it's not up to date. It takes more than reprints to make a magazine. I wonder how long PI will survive. I suppose it could be financed in an ongoing fashion for as long as Dave Pizer backs it as a vanity project. A real magazine wouldn't survive under that editorial policy though.
(end)

Rick,

Please realize that both David Pizer and Mike Perry are in love with cryonics history, even though many others feel it is a dull subject which should be glossed over so more attention can be given to the present and future. I have tried explaining this to them! lol It frustrates the hell out of me when I see other transhumanist/immortalist groups getting lots of articles out of people, and yet we don't.

You are exactly right in saying the magazine could exist for however long David wants it to, due to his personal wealth. But our subscriber list is slowly but steadily growing, and I hope to get a deal going with Mr. Larry Flynt (but no, there will not be a PI centerfold girl! Or will there be?? ; )).

David is looking at the LONGTERM. And he can afford to do so due to his money. In time we will be able to actually pay authors and also in a general way upgrade the various present weaknesses of the magazine.

One day I would like to see PI rival Omni or Wired. We are a long way from that but I believe that we are picking up speed toward our longterm goal.

John Grigg
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Joined: April 24th, 2004, 11:47 pm

April 25th, 2004, 11:15 pm #10

But our subscriber list is slowly but steadily growing, and I hope to get a deal going with Mr. Larry Flynt (but no, there will not be a PI centerfold girl! Or will there be?? ; )).
-

Is Flynt a cryonicist? I read somewhere that he tried to get his wife preserved, but she was autopsied and the pathologists wouldn't release her remains.
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