Guilty until proven innocent?

Guilty until proven innocent?

Joined: December 8th, 2002, 1:49 pm

December 8th, 2002, 1:49 pm #1

Most of the reports I've read from people suggest that the product improves their engine performance and doesn't cause any harm, although the complaints are about it not meeting it's claims. That doesn't make it a bad product.

I'll wait for the results of the suit before I pass judgement, thanks.

There also seems to be a lot of unfounded bashing going on here. People who have absolutely no experience with the product are just jumping on the band wagon and bashing the product. I think I'd rather test it, talk to people who have tested it, and wait for the results of the FTC suit before I pass any judgement.

John Smoot may be a smartass, but at least he has tested the product. The only other post where I saw someone accuse zMAX of actually damaging his vehicle, was one where the carbon build-up that zMAX freed up, clogged his oil intake and caused dammage. zMAX didn't cause the carbon build up, it loosened it up and cleaned it off the internal engine parts like it claims it will. That moron is trying to sue the company for that. He should sue whoever is responsible for causing the carbon buildup on his engine in the first place, but I guess he can't sue himself.
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John Smoot
John Smoot

December 8th, 2002, 7:54 pm #2

Jim,
Yes, I can be a smartass...kinda fun when dealing with a certain class of morons...the kind who really believe they're smart. I've met lots of them on stock chat forums. Most are pushing their own agenda and don't have the intellect to hide that fact. Alot of the know-it-alls on this forum haven't even tried the stuff! Go figure. And as far as the FTC (goverment) suing...who gives a crap! The same entity also sued Microsoft, i.e. Bill Gates. The same man who has literally given millions and millions to charities of all kinds! Yet the goverment wants to get him. For what? For simply being smarter than most, being sucessful, and helping mankind in the process? I simply do not trust the goverment. In my business, I deal with alot of their associates, and I am not impressed. Oh, zMAX: It does work. In some cars better or worse than others. It seems expensive. I'm trying my best to get ahold of some Motorkote 100. It sounds almost too good to be true, but I can't seem to get a response from a Dr. Dave Persells so I can buy it from him. And, so far, zMAX is the only product I've tried that actually provides a measurable improvement. None of the others have. And I've tried most.
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Joined: December 8th, 2002, 1:49 pm

December 9th, 2002, 1:31 am #3

Well, you won't earn any brownie points using MS as an example with me. I'm certain that there would be much better innovation and competition in the computer industry if not for Billy boy. The world would be better off without him, But that's a discussion for another forum.

I agree about the government, though. They made Pot illegal and alcohol legal. They declare a war on drugs instead of a war on crimes against people, like rape, assault, robbery and murder. They don't have a clue about what a computer crime is or isn't. And they certainly don't know what's good or harmful when it comes to our health. Most of those things shouldn't be a decision for the government to make anyway. In fact no decision should be made by the government. They are supposed to be working for us.

As for the topic at hand, it's like I said. The only complaints I've heard have led me to believe that the product may not meet some of the claims made about it, but it is definitely a benefit. I'll use it if the price goes down. Then it would be a decent product. Maybe 2.50 a bottle would be about right, not 30.
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John Smoot
John Smoot

December 9th, 2002, 2:15 pm #4

Jim,
Yes it is expensive. In another post I wrote how I'd talked with a zMAX employee on the phone. What he said was that if you buy the $39.99 kit, it comes with about 4 different bottle of the stuff...motor, trans, fuel, small engine. It's the same stuff with different color in it. He suggested you could use all of it in the crankcase, which is where most of the benefit is to be realized. If a person follows this advice, it seems cheaper, at least on a per application case. Yeah MS may not be the best example...the government simply picks on those it knows it can, and does so routinely. This is yet another example.
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QHL
QHL

December 12th, 2002, 9:57 am #5

Most of the reports I've read from people suggest that the product improves their engine performance and doesn't cause any harm, although the complaints are about it not meeting it's claims. That doesn't make it a bad product.

I'll wait for the results of the suit before I pass judgement, thanks.

There also seems to be a lot of unfounded bashing going on here. People who have absolutely no experience with the product are just jumping on the band wagon and bashing the product. I think I'd rather test it, talk to people who have tested it, and wait for the results of the FTC suit before I pass any judgement.

John Smoot may be a smartass, but at least he has tested the product. The only other post where I saw someone accuse zMAX of actually damaging his vehicle, was one where the carbon build-up that zMAX freed up, clogged his oil intake and caused dammage. zMAX didn't cause the carbon build up, it loosened it up and cleaned it off the internal engine parts like it claims it will. That moron is trying to sue the company for that. He should sue whoever is responsible for causing the carbon buildup on his engine in the first place, but I guess he can't sue himself.
Well, I was watching the corny commercial and a few things bug me. First off, the endorsment by the racing guys? Well, the company that owns zMax also has some stake in the racing biz. It wouldn't exactly be difficult to have someone say something good about their product.

Next, the FTC claims can't exactly be taken lightly.

What I'm curious about is this: rather than putting additives in your engine, wouldn't it be advisable to up the viscosity of the motor oil one uses? Such as going to partially synthetic oil or to full synthetics? I'd really like to know, because my '98 Sunfire is up to about 78,000 miles, and I need it to last. Any imput would be appreciated, thanks.
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John Smoot
John Smoot

December 13th, 2002, 1:42 am #6

Your Sunfire does not have that many miles on it. Keep the oil changed about every 5000. The manual probably calls for 5W-30 or 10W-30. I'd use the 10W unless I lived in Alaska. If a car gets older with many (150000+) miles on it, AND starts to burn some oil, then go to a heavier weight, say 20W-40 or 20W-50. As a last resort, and in warm areas, go to straight 30W. Cars' engines will last a very long time, if serviced regularly. If you've got an automatic transmission, that usually the first thing to worry about...at least on the expensive list. Change that fluid every year or 30K miles. The Sunfire will probably make it to 250K.
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QHL
QHL

December 13th, 2002, 9:44 am #7

Just wanted to say thanks for the advice! Much appreciated.
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Bob Weaver
Bob Weaver

December 14th, 2002, 1:40 am #8

Well, I was watching the corny commercial and a few things bug me. First off, the endorsment by the racing guys? Well, the company that owns zMax also has some stake in the racing biz. It wouldn't exactly be difficult to have someone say something good about their product.

Next, the FTC claims can't exactly be taken lightly.

What I'm curious about is this: rather than putting additives in your engine, wouldn't it be advisable to up the viscosity of the motor oil one uses? Such as going to partially synthetic oil or to full synthetics? I'd really like to know, because my '98 Sunfire is up to about 78,000 miles, and I need it to last. Any imput would be appreciated, thanks.
A 10w30 or 10w40 from one of the major oil companies should provide more wear protection (but worse fuel economy) than a 5w30 or 5w20 from the same company. Higher viscosity oils theoretically provide more protection against wear than lower viscosity oils, assuming that the chemical package added to the base stock is the same. The auto manufacturers have been the driving force toward the use of lower viscosity, energy conserving oils because they must meet EPA CAFE fuel economy requirements for their fleet or pay penalties to the government. They use the low viscosity oils as factory fill, specify them in the manual, and ensure their commercial availability. They can then compute fuel economy numbers for their cars off of these lower viscosity oils. The major oil companies will use the same chemical packages in all of their mainstream oils, regardless of the viscosity, so you can up your wear protection by going to higher viscosity oils, although you will be sacrificing a small % of your gas mileage. There is no problem going to a higher viscosity than the manual recommends. You can run into problems going to a lower viscosity than the manual recommends, however, because the metallurgy and engine design must be optimized by the auto manufacturer in order to use the lower viscosity oils without running into wear issues.
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alexus
alexus

October 6th, 2005, 12:13 am #9

how does viscosity work?
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AC James
AC James

October 23rd, 2005, 6:15 pm #10

A 10w30 or 10w40 from one of the major oil companies should provide more wear protection (but worse fuel economy) than a 5w30 or 5w20 from the same company. Higher viscosity oils theoretically provide more protection against wear than lower viscosity oils, assuming that the chemical package added to the base stock is the same. The auto manufacturers have been the driving force toward the use of lower viscosity, energy conserving oils because they must meet EPA CAFE fuel economy requirements for their fleet or pay penalties to the government. They use the low viscosity oils as factory fill, specify them in the manual, and ensure their commercial availability. They can then compute fuel economy numbers for their cars off of these lower viscosity oils. The major oil companies will use the same chemical packages in all of their mainstream oils, regardless of the viscosity, so you can up your wear protection by going to higher viscosity oils, although you will be sacrificing a small % of your gas mileage. There is no problem going to a higher viscosity than the manual recommends. You can run into problems going to a lower viscosity than the manual recommends, however, because the metallurgy and engine design must be optimized by the auto manufacturer in order to use the lower viscosity oils without running into wear issues.
Please, get the facts. A thicker oil DOES NOT protect a engine better than a thinner weight oil. That is a old school myth. The FACT is some thinner oils like OW-30 or 5W-20 have better protection packages than 15W-40 or 20W-50 oil. Plus low weight oils dissipate heat faster than higher weight oils, plus they flow to upper engine parts faster.
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