Ettinger's use of "stolen goods"

Ettinger's use of "stolen goods"

Late 21st Century Man
Late 21st Century Man

April 24th, 2004, 4:25 pm #1

Ettinger in a recent Cryonet post indicated that he recently received healthcare costing the equivalent of several months' income for most Americans, paid for by the taxpayers.

Will certain libertarian cryonicists now denounce him for knowingly receiving "stolen goods"?
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Texas Cryo
Texas Cryo

April 24th, 2004, 5:04 pm #2

yet any libertarian political rants have been welcome for years on cryonet, but if any poster posts about Democratic party politics, oh, well, then that is SPAM, dontcha know....
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 24th, 2004, 5:58 pm #3

Ettinger in a recent Cryonet post indicated that he recently received healthcare costing the equivalent of several months' income for most Americans, paid for by the taxpayers.

Will certain libertarian cryonicists now denounce him for knowingly receiving "stolen goods"?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 24th, 2004, 6:06 pm #4

Libertarians should take as much money from the government as possible and use it against the (welfare) state again. Just like liberals take a lot of money from billionaire socialists and big corporations and use it against capitalism.
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Rick
Rick

April 24th, 2004, 6:42 pm #5

I won't get into it here right now but the idea that it's Pure Unfettered Capitalists v.s. Thieving Socialists is a false dichotomy. As long as the terms of the debate are polarized into those camps, we'll go nowhere. The positions have to be deconstructed and redescribed. The way Anonymous puts it, you'd think there was a war between these to positions. Step back from that conflict for minute, Anonymous.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 24th, 2004, 8:22 pm #6

Interesting but besides the point. My point was that libertarians should try to get as much money as possible from the state. Not only to get their taxes back but also to use it against authoritarians again. It's naive to think that the state will return the money libertarians refuse to the exploited taxpayers. That's the realistic, or as you wish, hobbesian approach to libertarianism: http://www.againstpolitics.com/contract ... index.html

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Ludwig von Mises
Ludwig von Mises

April 24th, 2004, 8:24 pm #7

I won't get into it here right now but the idea that it's Pure Unfettered Capitalists v.s. Thieving Socialists is a false dichotomy. As long as the terms of the debate are polarized into those camps, we'll go nowhere. The positions have to be deconstructed and redescribed. The way Anonymous puts it, you'd think there was a war between these to positions. Step back from that conflict for minute, Anonymous.
The dynamics of interventionism:
http://www.mises.org/midroad.asp

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Rick
Rick

April 24th, 2004, 9:31 pm #8

...that the solution to the dichotomy is middle of the road and then to say that middle falls one way or the other. The principles involved in statecraft that regulates capitalism is not, itself, capitalist nor socialist-- but rather a unique way of harnessing capitalist powers within a political economy that seeks, as the highest aim, the General Welfare. This principle is something that needs to be examined before looking at how it's done. But I don't want to get into it right now. Suffice it to say that the Von Mises article is a fallacy in my view. I'm not proposing a "middle" system but rather a principled system.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 24th, 2004, 9:36 pm #9

Me neither. There's already too much political b*llsh*t on cryonics forums! Let's get back to "freezing the dead"
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Individualist
Individualist

April 24th, 2004, 9:49 pm #10

...that the solution to the dichotomy is middle of the road and then to say that middle falls one way or the other. The principles involved in statecraft that regulates capitalism is not, itself, capitalist nor socialist-- but rather a unique way of harnessing capitalist powers within a political economy that seeks, as the highest aim, the General Welfare. This principle is something that needs to be examined before looking at how it's done. But I don't want to get into it right now. Suffice it to say that the Von Mises article is a fallacy in my view. I'm not proposing a "middle" system but rather a principled system.
The "general welfare" is hogwash. There are only individuals and what you're saying is that we should be willing to "utilize" (is sacrifice) the few (the rich, the non-risk-averse, the gifted etc.) for the welfare of the many. This is the morality of the caveman (and unfortunately the sort of authoritarian ethics promoted on transhumanist sites like betterhumans).

Some cryonicist hold moral and political views that would justify thawing all cryonics patients and sending all the money to the third world. Charles Platt is right. Cryonicists cannot have it both ways, self determination as far as cryonics is concerned and paternalism on other issues.

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