When is Racism ok?

When is Racism ok?

Ozymandous
Ozymandous

August 29th, 2003, 2:28 pm #1

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
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Joined: August 2nd, 2001, 4:29 pm

August 29th, 2003, 3:37 pm #2

Not ever. Period.

Those folks are idiots, plain and simple. They have commited dastardly cowardly violent acts in the past, and are compared to the KKK for GOOD REASON. You should read some of their documentation calling for the genocide of the gringo. Kill all the white folk but spare their "oppressed brothers in arms" the Native Americans.

Can't we all just get along? Sure, I would love to see some land returned, but it aint gonna happen. So make a billion dollars, buy it back, and kick folks out if it makes you happy. Not saying this is right, it's just what many are trying to do now.

Considering my mixed mongrel ethnicity, it's hard to point a finger at anybody with out three fingers pointing back at my self.
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Ashock
Ashock

August 29th, 2003, 4:30 pm #3

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
I'll spell it out for you in very simple terms.


It's ok to be racist when you're a minority. Not a successful minority, like let's say Asians, but a minority like Mexicans or blacks. The reason it's ok for one and not for the other? Simple. Successful minorities are no longer (or never were) considered owed to by the big bad white man. OTOH, those that are not successful as a group are still owed to by the same big bad white man.

It's also not ok for a white man to be racist (even on the same level as his Mexican or black counterpart) because he has always been the oppressor, and always will be one, given the proper chance. Yes, we are evil scum.


At least that is how things work right now, in simple terms.





-A
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Occhi
Occhi

August 29th, 2003, 4:45 pm #4

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
That is why the Plugger cartoon series is OK to run in a newspaper, a blatantly stereotypical anti-Redneck cartoon series, but a companion Butt Plugger series that lampoons gays is not seen or heard from in mainstream press, not that I'd care for that strip being in my paper either. I see the drive for victim status as a whole lot of freeloaders riding on the shoulders of the Black Man, the Black Woman, and their civil rights battles of the past century.

First step to ducking affiliation with racist motivation: achieve victim status. See Hatemonger Farakan.

Second step: attack anyone seeking the real content of a public figure's character as overhype or racist in motivation. (Recall Sharpton and his successes, Twana Brawley fraud case a matter of the public record)

Third Step: If you scream it loud enough and long enough, some one may mistake it for passing as the Truth.

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Jaffa Tamarin
Jaffa Tamarin

August 29th, 2003, 5:40 pm #5

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
No, I'm serious

It's ok in the "can you get away with it" sense if it's what your audience-of-the-moment wants to hear, and nobody else finds out.

It's never ok in the moral sense. But when you're playing politics, it's usually the "can you get away with it" sense that counts.

As for the news coverage. Arnold is bigger news than Busta-man. And the Nazi party is bigger news than some obscure immigrant group that nobody's even heard of.

I actually hadn't heard about Arnold's father and the Nazis yet, so maybe the press coverage isn't quite so saturated as you might have been led to believe.
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Occhi
Occhi

August 29th, 2003, 6:08 pm #6

So his grandfather's political modes are hardly germane.

slaps forhead Sill Effing ME! When did facts ever get in the way of political discourse?
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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

August 29th, 2003, 8:02 pm #7

No, I'm serious

It's ok in the "can you get away with it" sense if it's what your audience-of-the-moment wants to hear, and nobody else finds out.

It's never ok in the moral sense. But when you're playing politics, it's usually the "can you get away with it" sense that counts.

As for the news coverage. Arnold is bigger news than Busta-man. And the Nazi party is bigger news than some obscure immigrant group that nobody's even heard of.

I actually hadn't heard about Arnold's father and the Nazis yet, so maybe the press coverage isn't quite so saturated as you might have been led to believe.
That others think the idea of Racism in it's current form "'victim's rights" is stupid as well.

Yeah Jaffa, the 'news' over here it that Arnold's father chose the wrong group to 'join'. If you could be said to 'join' an almost manditory organization. I don't think it's news at all, but that never stopped biased 'journalists' like katie C from making an issue out of such a non-issue.

I just long for a day when everyone is held to the same standard of being held accountable for all the racist crap they spout regardless of their skin color or religion.

I won't hold my breath waiting because I'd be long dead before such a day comes otherwise.
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Joined: June 8th, 2001, 4:54 am

August 29th, 2003, 10:16 pm #8

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
(Sorry for changing the subject Ozy, but I live in California. I don't even want to think about that mess, right now.)

Anyway, it's a US holiday weekend. Does that mean that Slackers is on or off?

I've been shopping, BTW - in Act II perforce - I'll be glad when we meet the Dark Wanderer so I can get away from the docks to refresh the Act III vendors without having to start a new game. Finally bought a +gold% sash, though.

-- CH

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Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan

August 30th, 2003, 3:26 am #9

I'm confused by this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C95871%2C00.html

How come Arnold is being bashed and a big deal being made because his father was affiliated with the Nazi party, but this guy Bustamante hasn't hardly been asked at all about MEChA?

Isn't this a double standard or sorts? Trent Lott had to resign as Speaker when people inferred that he might like someone who supported segregation, yet when Bustamante is asked about MEChA he refuses to renounce the group?

From http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html :

"This is what the MEChA Constitution says (Article II, section 1):
"General membership shall consist of any student who accepts, believes and works for the goals and objectives of MEChA, including the liberation of AZTLAN, meaning self-determination of our people in this occupied state and the physical liberation of our land."
From "El Plan de Aztlan": In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

From the Hoover Institute
...Thus Rodolfo Acuña's Occupied America claims the Southwest for Mexicans. Chicano activists (Chicanismo) push not only for civil rights for illegal Mexicans but also for the return (reconquista) of the lost provinces to form Aztlán. Chicanismo demands Spanish language and culture education, not English or American cultural schooling. The Movimiento Estudiante Chicano de Aztlán (MECHA) in 1970 formed a political party, La Raza Unida, won control of Crystal City, Texas, and tried to make it into a Chicano city. The party split and has had little political impact since but could easily revive in California or Texas. More....
"

Maybe I have learned a faulty definition of Racism, but my understanding of it is that any group that thinks it is better than any other group based strictly on race is a racist group. Dictionary.com defines Racism as the following:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

While MEChA doesn't overtly proclaim they believe that a person of 'Chicano' background is better it can be easily implied, implied at least as easily as was done with Trent Lott a while back.

So why is this not been covered by the other news organizations who have asked about Arnold? I don't seem to remember seeing Katie Curiouc (sp?) questioning Bustamante's past relations and dealings, unlike Arnold's, where in Arnolds aren't even what he himself has done, but his father.

Can anyone justify covering Arnold's father as much as has been done but the very low news coverage of Bustamante and his ties to MEChA?
Well, *slowly shakes head* there he goes again... starting a political thread.

Let's get one thing straight, it appears to me that this is not a group about race, this is a group about culture-- and power of course.

The use of the word "gringo" may have confused things, but what this group wants is to a return to Spanish culture. Their group, as it says, it open to "any student". Sounds to me like it was created as a radical group, but then watered down to become a group that helped the cause of illegal aliens, and nobody bothered striking out the old rhetoric.

What's obvious to me tho, it that the group itself intended to run things in Atzlan. It's really a political power group.

(Whenever I see "Atzlan", I always think of "Zardoz" or whatever it was called.)

Now, what confuses ME is why if they're so concerned about redressing the wrongs of the past, they aren't going to hand the land back to the Amerind people (known as "Native Americans"). Note that they claim to have "civilized" the area and therefore it's theirs to control. Do we need to talk about how the Spanish treated people whose families lived here before the 1490's? The Spaniards of that era were ruthless. Sure, they brought their flavor of Christianity, but watch out if you didn't buy into it.

Now, regarding Arnold, don't sweat about the Nazi thing. Arnold's practically a commie liberal, just ask Rush. The newspaper today (Wash.Post) talked about his Oui Magazine interview in 1977, where he talked about his drug use and group sex, and quoted him referring to homosexuals as "fags". Now, that last part makes him sound Republican but don't be fooled, this guy's not on the Right at all!

And maybe people are concerned about who is father is because of the last few presidential races, where W is a rerun of a (supposedly-)happier time, and Albert Gore, Jr. is just a senator's son who actually grew up in Washington D.C. and therefore didn't know anything about the rest of the country. That's the power of fathers in this country. (Also see the disappointment in the Republican eyes whenever Ron Reagan (the son) is or does anything non-conservative.)

(And BTW anything connected to Nazis, in whatever way, makes news.)

Your Great Communicator,
Ronald Reagvan
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Zed
Zed

August 30th, 2003, 12:31 pm #10

(Sorry for changing the subject Ozy, but I live in California. I don't even want to think about that mess, right now.)

Anyway, it's a US holiday weekend. Does that mean that Slackers is on or off?

I've been shopping, BTW - in Act II perforce - I'll be glad when we meet the Dark Wanderer so I can get away from the docks to refresh the Act III vendors without having to start a new game. Finally bought a +gold% sash, though.

-- CH
...it's looking like I will be out Sun night. I will of course keep an eye on the boards in case I am not.
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