Some ?s re Elitist Rules for Hellfire

Some ?s re Elitist Rules for Hellfire

Attika
Attika

June 10th, 2004, 3:18 am #1

Since you can play multiplayer Hellfire on Kali, I was wondering about some Elitist rules for said game.

#1. Are Oils in or out?

#2. Are Runes useable or no?

#3. New spells: useable or no?

Berserk -- it is magic based?
Immolation(would it replace Elemental as the Noblest fire based spell?)
Reflect
Search
Warp
And isn’t Apoc possible on a book in Hellfire? If so, Apoc?

#4. Since in Hellfire there are a number of Unique Amulets that may now drop, are "non-Golden unique" amulets now forbidden?

Just wondering.

Attika
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Joined: March 26th, 2004, 1:36 am

June 10th, 2004, 5:56 am #2

Hello.

I shall offer my opinions, not that I am any force with this variant.

Attika: "#1. Are Oils in or out?"

Since potions are not ruled out, I would say oils are in. After all, they are all unique.

Attika: "#2. Are Runes useable or no?"

I would say yes, but perhaps only the two greater runes (and the rune of stone) since there are lesser ones for fire and lightning.

Attika: "#3. New spells: useable or no?

Berserk -- it is magic based?
Immolation(would it replace Elemental as the Noblest fire based spell?)
Reflect
Search
Warp
And isn’t Apoc possible on a book in Hellfire? If so, Apoc?"

Berserk definitely appears to be unique. You are charming the monsters, so it does seem magical.

I would say so, since at 21,000 gold pieces, it is the most expensive.

Reflect seems unique enough, as does search.

Warp is questionable. It teleports you, which is not exactly unique, but only to the nearest stairs. I would say no, however, for it is not unique enough. Elitists deserve the best.

And it can be used in Diablo with scrolls. I would say it is okay, for it is unique since it damages triple immunes. Furthermore, you can only get the book from one source, which is Na-Krul.

Attika: "#4. Since in Hellfire there are a number of Unique Amulets that may now drop, are "non-Golden unique" amulets now forbidden?"

Unique amulets all the way, although one reason to allow magical amulets is out of respect for the original variant. I still say just the unique amulets.

Farewell.
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Lemming
Lemming

June 11th, 2004, 8:38 pm #3

Since you can play multiplayer Hellfire on Kali, I was wondering about some Elitist rules for said game.

#1. Are Oils in or out?

#2. Are Runes useable or no?

#3. New spells: useable or no?

Berserk -- it is magic based?
Immolation(would it replace Elemental as the Noblest fire based spell?)
Reflect
Search
Warp
And isn’t Apoc possible on a book in Hellfire? If so, Apoc?

#4. Since in Hellfire there are a number of Unique Amulets that may now drop, are "non-Golden unique" amulets now forbidden?

Just wondering.

Attika
#1. Are Oils in or out?

Agree with Gakerd. SNOB has no direct prohibitions on consumable items, so I'd say this is fine. An exceptionally SNOBby SNOB might shun less Blacksmith and Fortitude oils in favor of finding a Permeance (at least in HF:F or vanilla HF SP).

#2. Are Runes useable or no?

Agree with Gakerd. Nova and Immo runes are preferred to the lesser Lit/Fire runes for the same reason a SNOB wouldn't bother casting Fireball from a scroll.

Berserk -- it is magic based?

Yes, Berserk is affected by magic immunity. I'd allow it to a SNOB because it's "unique."

Immolation(would it replace Elemental as the Noblest fire based spell?)

I dunno. Immo and Nova are both extremely powerful. I think the SNOB would lose some of its flavor if it used these exclusively over Ele and CBolt.

Reflect, Search

Search is utility, like TP. Reflect is fairly unique.

Warp

Tough call. I consider it semi-utility (for Laz running). Why should a SNOB put himself in danger physically Teleporting through unknown rooms if he can teleport safely to the nearest stairs?

And isn’t Apoc possible on a book in Hellfire? If so, Apoc?

I suppose.

#4. Since in Hellfire there are a number of Unique Amulets that may now drop, are "non-Golden unique" amulets now forbidden?

As much as those HF amulets suck, yes. (And in vanilla HF, there's only Acolyte's Amulet. Ewww.)

-Lemmy
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Attika
Attika

June 12th, 2004, 12:16 am #4

You said:
"for the same reason a SNOB wouldn't bother casting Fireball from a scroll."

Ah, according to the Elitist rules, SNOBs aren't allowed Fireball -- not at all.

Then this:
"I think the SNOB would lose some of its flavor if it used these exclusively over Ele and CBolt."

I've also always played that, a stated in the rules, the SNOB uses the "noblest" lightning-based spell, which is Nova. Period. No CB allowed.

Has someone posted somewhere what spells are and aren't allowed, going into the difference between "noblest", "unique", and "eschewed by the proletariat"?

Is there any way to update the variant master list to reflect this, if it is common knowledge or accepted practice?

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Nystul
Nystul

June 12th, 2004, 1:24 am #5

Aside from charged bolt, the allowed spells for regular Diablo were fairly well established. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but it was something like this: heal, heal other, stonecurse, teleport, town portal, holy bolt, apoc, infravision, golem, mana shield, bone spirit, bloodstar, flash, guardian, elemental, flame wave, and nova. I also think people were allowed to use charges from unique staves regardless of the spell.

Phasing was considered a less noble form of teleport.
Firebolt and fireball less noble than elemental.
Firewall less noble than flamewave.
Lightning and chain lightning less noble than nova.

Inferno... I don't remember if it was allowed or not, to be honest. While it is certainly "eschewed by the masses", the real issue would be whether you consider it a unique form of fire damage or a less noble variation on firewall/flamewave. I probably would not use it, but I also would not use charged bolt which was a pretty common elitist spell.

With charged bolt, here is how I see it: It is pretty hard to convince me that lightning is more similar to nova than charged bolt. I would say the exact opposite is true. It's even hard to make a case that charged bolt is "eschewed by the masses" because almost every non-variant sorcerer created starts the game relying on charged bolt. I think this variant was created with the warrior class in mind, so it wasn't really a problem that most early-game spells were not allowed. When people wanted to play elitist mages, it became an important issue. If you don't allow charged bolt and/or inferno, that leaves no spells to kill animals or demons until you get into the catacombs-level books. I think necessity dictated a looser interpretation to allow charged bolt.

While there was some consensus on most spells, the rules have always been vague and open to interpretation, and you are free to use your own judgment in applying them to the Hellfire spells.



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