So... Where the Hell is Justice?

So... Where the Hell is Justice?

Joined: August 2nd, 2001, 4:29 pm

November 14th, 2003, 3:45 pm #1

Where I live, there have been two high profile court cases, both stemmingfrom Hell Night (Halloweeen) last year.

The first are 3 men. All of them white. And yes, this matters. They broke into a home of a black family, tied up the husband, raped his daughter and his wife, and soddomized the wife with a shotgun. Wife died when the shotgun was fired while inside her. 2 of the men were charged with criminal sexual assault with a minor and with an adult. The man holdingthe gun was charged with agravated sexual assault with a minor, an adult, and involuntary manslaughter. He claimed the gun went off by accident. He is facing up to 20 years, but, will probably be out in as little as 2 years. The other 2 men are serving 6 months.

The second case involves a black man. He was charged with murder. This also happened on Hell Night. A 17 year old and a 16 year old, both white males, sexually assaulted the man's wife as they were walking home from a night club. The man shot both of the boys when he recovered from being bashed over the head with a bottle, while one of them was in the act of rape. The 16 year old died of his wounds, the other survived. Why murder? The 17 year old testified that they only intended to rape the woman. Her and her husband's lives were never really in danger. A jury ruled excessive force was used in self defense. The man faces 50 years to life.

So. Where the bloody hell is justice?
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Occhi
Occhi

November 14th, 2003, 3:52 pm #2

1. Juries are picked to be stupid. Charges tried are chosen by DA's to be the ones that will likely get them a conviction.

2. Forty years of STUPID precedent over folks using guns in their own homes to defend their families, thanks inpart to the bogus white guilt over black kids in cities getting shot when they broke into folks homes to steal stuff, has now come back to screw that man who was, by your account, doing what I and every other gun owner will do: He should not even have been charged, if the facts are as they say you are. He should be getting the NRA "armed citizen of the month" award.

Why are you looking for justice in the courts? They are no longer a place to find justice, they are like tennis courts, where attorneys play games with other people's lives.

Looking for "Justice" in American courts is like looking for yogurt in the jungle: hard to find.

Why?

Justice for one man is tyranny to another is vengeance to a third is Oppression by the State by to a fourth.

It does not exist.
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Ashock
Ashock

November 14th, 2003, 6:42 pm #3

Where I live and have lived in the past, if the races were reversed, you'd get the same result.


In any case, justice mostly only exists for the super rich.



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Ashock
Ashock

November 14th, 2003, 6:46 pm #4

... I gotta stop doing this.



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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

November 15th, 2003, 1:17 am #5

Where I live, there have been two high profile court cases, both stemmingfrom Hell Night (Halloweeen) last year.

The first are 3 men. All of them white. And yes, this matters. They broke into a home of a black family, tied up the husband, raped his daughter and his wife, and soddomized the wife with a shotgun. Wife died when the shotgun was fired while inside her. 2 of the men were charged with criminal sexual assault with a minor and with an adult. The man holdingthe gun was charged with agravated sexual assault with a minor, an adult, and involuntary manslaughter. He claimed the gun went off by accident. He is facing up to 20 years, but, will probably be out in as little as 2 years. The other 2 men are serving 6 months.

The second case involves a black man. He was charged with murder. This also happened on Hell Night. A 17 year old and a 16 year old, both white males, sexually assaulted the man's wife as they were walking home from a night club. The man shot both of the boys when he recovered from being bashed over the head with a bottle, while one of them was in the act of rape. The 16 year old died of his wounds, the other survived. Why murder? The 17 year old testified that they only intended to rape the woman. Her and her husband's lives were never really in danger. A jury ruled excessive force was used in self defense. The man faces 50 years to life.

So. Where the bloody hell is justice?
It's called the "legal system" and not the "justice system" because the courts are only concerned with making sure the rules of court/law are followed, not if the guilty people get what they deserve. Add this to the fact that we now also have judges re-writing law to suit their "social responsibilities" and you have a system that is more and more looking like a kangaroo court and not the system envisioned by the founders of our two most important and sacred documents.

Don't even get me started with examples like the guy who chansed a robber out of his house, the robber fell out the first floor window and broke his leg and then sued the home owner and WON. :rolleyes:
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Van
Van

November 15th, 2003, 4:58 am #6

Where I live, there have been two high profile court cases, both stemmingfrom Hell Night (Halloweeen) last year.

The first are 3 men. All of them white. And yes, this matters. They broke into a home of a black family, tied up the husband, raped his daughter and his wife, and soddomized the wife with a shotgun. Wife died when the shotgun was fired while inside her. 2 of the men were charged with criminal sexual assault with a minor and with an adult. The man holdingthe gun was charged with agravated sexual assault with a minor, an adult, and involuntary manslaughter. He claimed the gun went off by accident. He is facing up to 20 years, but, will probably be out in as little as 2 years. The other 2 men are serving 6 months.

The second case involves a black man. He was charged with murder. This also happened on Hell Night. A 17 year old and a 16 year old, both white males, sexually assaulted the man's wife as they were walking home from a night club. The man shot both of the boys when he recovered from being bashed over the head with a bottle, while one of them was in the act of rape. The 16 year old died of his wounds, the other survived. Why murder? The 17 year old testified that they only intended to rape the woman. Her and her husband's lives were never really in danger. A jury ruled excessive force was used in self defense. The man faces 50 years to life.

So. Where the bloody hell is justice?
Sounds like the 2nd guy should have had a better lawyer. I don't believe in race-based jury nullification, but I believe "common sense" nullification. You may say all you like, that your job as jury is to decide if he pulled the trigger, but I as a juror will decide that a man is entitled to shoot someone in the act of raping his wife or his children or anyone (especially after "meaning no harm" smashing a bottle on his head).

HOWEVER, re-reading the story, it says he shot BOTH of them, while one of them was in the act. I would excuse one killing but not the other. Sure, the other one probably deserves to be shot too, to rot in hell, etc, but if he was not a threat AT THE TIME of the shooting then sorry, jail time. But, fifty years is way too much, it should be like a manslaughter sentence. Whatever happened to "temporary insanity"? I think most normal men, given that set of circumstances would indeed shoot both.

As for the first set of rapists, they deserve to die a horrible death and rot in Hell. Two years for raping a minor? Maybe-- if they are raped every day they're in prison. The shotgun guy should get the death penalty IMO-- "accidental" or not, he was putting a lethal weapon inside someone, that should be first-degree murder. If they lived in my town, I think I'd really be tempted to "accidently" run them over. At least the shotgun guy. Gosh, I didn't see him there when I turned onto his lawn.
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Joined: August 2nd, 2001, 4:29 pm

November 15th, 2003, 8:11 am #7

Where I live, there have been two high profile court cases, both stemmingfrom Hell Night (Halloweeen) last year.

The first are 3 men. All of them white. And yes, this matters. They broke into a home of a black family, tied up the husband, raped his daughter and his wife, and soddomized the wife with a shotgun. Wife died when the shotgun was fired while inside her. 2 of the men were charged with criminal sexual assault with a minor and with an adult. The man holdingthe gun was charged with agravated sexual assault with a minor, an adult, and involuntary manslaughter. He claimed the gun went off by accident. He is facing up to 20 years, but, will probably be out in as little as 2 years. The other 2 men are serving 6 months.

The second case involves a black man. He was charged with murder. This also happened on Hell Night. A 17 year old and a 16 year old, both white males, sexually assaulted the man's wife as they were walking home from a night club. The man shot both of the boys when he recovered from being bashed over the head with a bottle, while one of them was in the act of rape. The 16 year old died of his wounds, the other survived. Why murder? The 17 year old testified that they only intended to rape the woman. Her and her husband's lives were never really in danger. A jury ruled excessive force was used in self defense. The man faces 50 years to life.

So. Where the bloody hell is justice?
One was raping, the other was helping hold the woman down. Shooting both was par for the course in my book. I would have took those boys and blown their wee peckers right off. And make sure they live so they can regret each and every day. Doc is a bastard when he's provoked.

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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

November 15th, 2003, 11:29 pm #8

Sounds like the 2nd guy should have had a better lawyer. I don't believe in race-based jury nullification, but I believe "common sense" nullification. You may say all you like, that your job as jury is to decide if he pulled the trigger, but I as a juror will decide that a man is entitled to shoot someone in the act of raping his wife or his children or anyone (especially after "meaning no harm" smashing a bottle on his head).

HOWEVER, re-reading the story, it says he shot BOTH of them, while one of them was in the act. I would excuse one killing but not the other. Sure, the other one probably deserves to be shot too, to rot in hell, etc, but if he was not a threat AT THE TIME of the shooting then sorry, jail time. But, fifty years is way too much, it should be like a manslaughter sentence. Whatever happened to "temporary insanity"? I think most normal men, given that set of circumstances would indeed shoot both.

As for the first set of rapists, they deserve to die a horrible death and rot in Hell. Two years for raping a minor? Maybe-- if they are raped every day they're in prison. The shotgun guy should get the death penalty IMO-- "accidental" or not, he was putting a lethal weapon inside someone, that should be first-degree murder. If they lived in my town, I think I'd really be tempted to "accidently" run them over. At least the shotgun guy. Gosh, I didn't see him there when I turned onto his lawn.
As for the first set of rapists, they deserve to die a horrible death and rot in Hell. Two years for raping a minor? Maybe-- if they are raped every day they're in prison. The shotgun guy should get the death penalty IMO-- "accidental" or not, he was putting a lethal weapon inside someone, that should be first-degree murder. If they lived in my town, I think I'd really be tempted to "accidently" run them over. At least the shotgun guy. Gosh, I didn't see him there when I turned onto his lawn.

What?? Surely you're not advocating someone being a vigilante? I thought you wanted government to have more control over the lives of people? Surely you're not saying that you don't trust all things related to the government looking out for the "good" of all people all the time?

Just poking a little fun at you Van, and for what it's worth, I agree with you and would have to be in the passenger seat of any such "lawn surfing" so I could 'accidentally' whack the fellow with the door if you missed him while driving.. :P
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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

November 15th, 2003, 11:30 pm #9

One was raping, the other was helping hold the woman down. Shooting both was par for the course in my book. I would have took those boys and blown their wee peckers right off. And make sure they live so they can regret each and every day. Doc is a bastard when he's provoked.
Castration for rapists, and give them a tube to pee out of.

Harsh, but makes me feel better at least.
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Ashock
Ashock

November 16th, 2003, 1:43 am #10

Castration removes testicles. The peeing part still remains. No need to give them anything to help out



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