QOTM suggestions

QOTM suggestions

Ozymandous
Ozymandous

February 18th, 2003, 8:21 pm #1

While I am glad the socialist opinions of MLK no longer grace the QOTM section I'd like to suggest a few other quotes that may be acceptable.

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"Our institutions of freedom will not survive unless they are constantly replenished by the faith that gave them birth." -John Foster Dulles

"In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved." -Franklin D. Roosevelt

"We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls." -Robert J. McCracken

"Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others." -William Allen White

"A free, virtuous, and enlightened people must know full well the great principles and causes upon which their happiness depends." -James Monroe

"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by individuals who labor in freedom." -Albert Einstein

"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." -Daniel Webster

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -Wendell Phillips

"If you expect people to be ignorant and free you expect what never was and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

"If we falter in our leadership we may endanger the peace of the world, and we surely endanger the welfare of the nation." -Harry S. Truman

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All quotes taken from "365 salutes to America." I am sure some will object to them (maybe not) but thought I'd throw them out for view.
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Joined: October 18th, 2000, 2:14 pm

February 18th, 2003, 9:38 pm #2

"We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls." -Robert J. McCracken

I thought Columbus' big motivation was looking for a trade route to India.

Those who (maybe) crossed the Atlantic prior to that were probably looking for more animals to hunt.
Last edited by Jaffa_Tamarin on February 18th, 2003, 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 21st, 2001, 1:08 pm

February 18th, 2003, 10:06 pm #3

Those who (maybe) crossed the Atlantic prior to that were probably looking for more animals to hunt.

If you believe Farley Mowat's theory, they were hunting walrus, and also fleeing Viking raiders.
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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

February 19th, 2003, 12:51 pm #4

"We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls." -Robert J. McCracken

I thought Columbus' big motivation was looking for a trade route to India.

Those who (maybe) crossed the Atlantic prior to that were probably looking for more animals to hunt.
Amusing that someone from outside the US would post a very literal take on that quote since most of the REST of the people outside the US seem to not understand the literal meaning of all those UN resolutions against IRAQ that Saddam has ignored all these years.

Now then, be a good fellow and take your literal view and tell the rest of Europe to back up their hollow words with actions, eh?

</sarcasm>

I believe the person quoted meant in the general sense regarding to why people came to America, not the early exploratory voyages or pre-civilization migrations of man.
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Joined: August 2nd, 2001, 4:29 pm

February 19th, 2003, 3:25 pm #5

While I am glad the socialist opinions of MLK no longer grace the QOTM section I'd like to suggest a few other quotes that may be acceptable.

---------

"Our institutions of freedom will not survive unless they are constantly replenished by the faith that gave them birth." -John Foster Dulles

"In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved." -Franklin D. Roosevelt

"We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls." -Robert J. McCracken

"Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others." -William Allen White

"A free, virtuous, and enlightened people must know full well the great principles and causes upon which their happiness depends." -James Monroe

"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by individuals who labor in freedom." -Albert Einstein

"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." -Daniel Webster

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -Wendell Phillips

"If you expect people to be ignorant and free you expect what never was and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

"If we falter in our leadership we may endanger the peace of the world, and we surely endanger the welfare of the nation." -Harry S. Truman

------
All quotes taken from "365 salutes to America." I am sure some will object to them (maybe not) but thought I'd throw them out for view.
Is most of the folks on your list are White Supremacists. A couple of the presidents you mentioned were all for the genocide of an entire nation of people.

Where is precious liberty now? They wanted liberty for themselves, not for others. They wanted freedom alright. Freedom to rape and murder, loot, plunder, and kill.

With few exceptions, most of the folks on your list are God accursed hypocrites, people who will probably burn in the deepist darkest parts of the abyss.

Thomas Jefferson for all his wisdom was one of the worst slave owners you could imagine. He wanted more slaves. He wanted a young America to improve it's naval capacity so that slave trading ships could run in a more regular fashion. George Washington was quoted as saying "Forced labour is what makes America prosper. It is our greatness." But you never learn those quotes in school. No, you only learn the Eurocentric White Bullshit in schools.

While many of those men cried "Freedom!" they were unloading boat load after boat load of slaves from the docks. Cruelties abounded. To get more land and expand, and have a great free nation, they slaughtered my own people like they did the buffalo. Gave them blankets infested with pox. They raped. And rape was ok. Black folks and Indians had no souls, according to most of those folks back then, they were mere animals, not human beings.

It took until just a few years ago to get the Presidential Order of Genocide retracted and some weak ass apology given to the natives, giving them recognized full human rights. Did they get their land back? Was what was stolen returned? Hell no. There is still no freedom for many.

With few exceptions, most of those quotes are just bullshit.

I do not apologize if I have offended. I find many of those quotes offensive my self, and, I forced my self a good long wait before I replied to give my self a cooling off period. I feel that what I had to say was rather civilized, considering what it is I really wanted to say.
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C2
C2

February 19th, 2003, 4:10 pm #6

nt
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Joined: October 18th, 2000, 2:14 pm

February 19th, 2003, 4:50 pm #7

Amusing that someone from outside the US would post a very literal take on that quote since most of the REST of the people outside the US seem to not understand the literal meaning of all those UN resolutions against IRAQ that Saddam has ignored all these years.

Now then, be a good fellow and take your literal view and tell the rest of Europe to back up their hollow words with actions, eh?

</sarcasm>

I believe the person quoted meant in the general sense regarding to why people came to America, not the early exploratory voyages or pre-civilization migrations of man.
Feh. I'm tired of your condescending attitude and veiled insults.

I will no longer be replying to any of your posts. I would say I won't be reading them, but this forum lacks an ignore feature, and I know my own curiosity too well.

Have a nice day.
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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

February 19th, 2003, 6:23 pm #8

Is most of the folks on your list are White Supremacists. A couple of the presidents you mentioned were all for the genocide of an entire nation of people.

Where is precious liberty now? They wanted liberty for themselves, not for others. They wanted freedom alright. Freedom to rape and murder, loot, plunder, and kill.

With few exceptions, most of the folks on your list are God accursed hypocrites, people who will probably burn in the deepist darkest parts of the abyss.

Thomas Jefferson for all his wisdom was one of the worst slave owners you could imagine. He wanted more slaves. He wanted a young America to improve it's naval capacity so that slave trading ships could run in a more regular fashion. George Washington was quoted as saying "Forced labour is what makes America prosper. It is our greatness." But you never learn those quotes in school. No, you only learn the Eurocentric White Bullshit in schools.

While many of those men cried "Freedom!" they were unloading boat load after boat load of slaves from the docks. Cruelties abounded. To get more land and expand, and have a great free nation, they slaughtered my own people like they did the buffalo. Gave them blankets infested with pox. They raped. And rape was ok. Black folks and Indians had no souls, according to most of those folks back then, they were mere animals, not human beings.

It took until just a few years ago to get the Presidential Order of Genocide retracted and some weak ass apology given to the natives, giving them recognized full human rights. Did they get their land back? Was what was stolen returned? Hell no. There is still no freedom for many.

With few exceptions, most of those quotes are just bullshit.

I do not apologize if I have offended. I find many of those quotes offensive my self, and, I forced my self a good long wait before I replied to give my self a cooling off period. I feel that what I had to say was rather civilized, considering what it is I really wanted to say.
If you look at virtually any recorded statement from any leader or person and how it directly related to their time and place I am sure that even the non "Eurocentric White Bullshit" sayings aren't all roses and lollipops.

You want examples, look at the Bible, and even the constitution and how the ideas espoused by these documents do not match well with the world conditions at the time.

It's always easy to crap on what someone has said if you say "well in their time" but the idea (to me at least) is how these sayings relate to our culture TODAY. Was genocide committed, yep, it was. Were people killed and forced off their land, yes they were. Has this happened through-out history? Yes it has. Does that make what these people did right, not entirely.

Glad you like to lump eveyone into the "the world hates me and isn't worth crapping on" group Doc, but for whatever flaws the people in the past had as individuals, their ideals aren't all bad when played against the nice PC crowd we have now.

Of course, you may have to look at the idea involved, not just as even they may have meant what they said, but as applying to all. Last I checked, everyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of color, race, religion, etc.

Maybe one day people will stop looking to the past and look to the future, because you absolutely cannot change the past, only deal with it and move on.

-Ozy

By the way, for what it's worth my wife is 1/4 Cherokee but I don't relate to her as "Native American-American", just as a citizen and my wife, and she doesn't mind. Everyone is not a victim.

Crap happened in the past, and maybe if the Native Americans had kicked the colonists off this continent things would have been better. Maybe if the tribal cheifs in Africa hadn't sold their enemies into slavery things would hav been better. maybe... blah blah blah, these things didn't happen and all we can do is look ahead, not behind.

Oh, and for what it's worth (part 2), I find many of the "PC, can't say anything without being labelled a racist or sexist, everyone is a victim" mentality offensive as wel, but that's what we're stuck with now so I guess everyone has their issues.
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Ozymandous
Ozymandous

February 19th, 2003, 6:26 pm #9

Feh. I'm tired of your condescending attitude and veiled insults.

I will no longer be replying to any of your posts. I would say I won't be reading them, but this forum lacks an ignore feature, and I know my own curiosity too well.

Have a nice day.
I'm tired of your condescending attitude.

Yeah I can say the same of you. Amusing that I am not the only person to comment on your "attitudes" before because I know there were some threads that discussed the apparent Anti-American feelings you seemed to express.

shrug

Your choice.
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Jester
Jester

February 19th, 2003, 7:11 pm #10

If you look at virtually any recorded statement from any leader or person and how it directly related to their time and place I am sure that even the non "Eurocentric White Bullshit" sayings aren't all roses and lollipops.

You want examples, look at the Bible, and even the constitution and how the ideas espoused by these documents do not match well with the world conditions at the time.

It's always easy to crap on what someone has said if you say "well in their time" but the idea (to me at least) is how these sayings relate to our culture TODAY. Was genocide committed, yep, it was. Were people killed and forced off their land, yes they were. Has this happened through-out history? Yes it has. Does that make what these people did right, not entirely.

Glad you like to lump eveyone into the "the world hates me and isn't worth crapping on" group Doc, but for whatever flaws the people in the past had as individuals, their ideals aren't all bad when played against the nice PC crowd we have now.

Of course, you may have to look at the idea involved, not just as even they may have meant what they said, but as applying to all. Last I checked, everyone born in the US is a citizen, regardless of color, race, religion, etc.

Maybe one day people will stop looking to the past and look to the future, because you absolutely cannot change the past, only deal with it and move on.

-Ozy

By the way, for what it's worth my wife is 1/4 Cherokee but I don't relate to her as "Native American-American", just as a citizen and my wife, and she doesn't mind. Everyone is not a victim.

Crap happened in the past, and maybe if the Native Americans had kicked the colonists off this continent things would have been better. Maybe if the tribal cheifs in Africa hadn't sold their enemies into slavery things would hav been better. maybe... blah blah blah, these things didn't happen and all we can do is look ahead, not behind.

Oh, and for what it's worth (part 2), I find many of the "PC, can't say anything without being labelled a racist or sexist, everyone is a victim" mentality offensive as wel, but that's what we're stuck with now so I guess everyone has their issues.
... but isn't this a direct comparison between the "horrors" of political correctness vs. both slavery and genocide?

"... but for whatever flaws the people in the past had as individuals, their ideals aren't all bad when played against the nice PC crowd we have now."

Tell me I'm reading that wrong. Or are you comparing one group's flaws to another's ideals?

Jester
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