<b>RBGC SG4:</b> (almost) <b>ALWAYS WAR!</b>

<b>RBGC SG4:</b> (almost) <b>ALWAYS WAR!</b>

Bam-Bam
Bam-Bam

February 23rd, 2004, 3:33 am #1

OK, folks, I have done some AW playtesting, and am ready to start the next RB succession game.

Version: GalCiv 1.2
Party: War Party (+50% hitpoints)
Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and hitpoints (+20%).
Galaxy Stats: Large, tight, common
Difficulty: Painful (All Intelligent AI--std alignment)
All victory conditions DISABLED. (None of them amount to AI victory anyway, so why bother?)

Variant Rules: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

You must leave the UP at the start of the game. You must declare war on all MAJOR opponents as soon as possible.* You may make no trades with MAJORS. You may never, ever make peace with any MAJOR. Until you control all of the galaxy or are wiped from the galaxy, there will always be war without end.

12 turns (one year) per player.
Standard 24/48 rules. Game will be hosted at the Civfanatics "All Other Games" forum, as before.

*Unlike Civ3, there is not a diplomatic means to declare war, except by offering to attack one race while in contact with another race. We will have to play this one by ear. This is (almost) Always War, since we are allowing diplomatic relations with the minors. With this size map, the war declaration is likely to occur via diplomatic communications with a minor civ, or attacking an enemy ship once starfighters or corvettes are present.

Note also that by leaving the UP--there is NO TRADE between planet, even with minors.

I bumped up the difficulty from Smegged's game, since we are allowing peaceful relations (and tech trading) with the minors. I also bumped the habitablility up a notch, since we will have NO trade income.

First dibs on the signups for RB folks; if I do not get a team of five within a day or so, I will open up to other folks at Stardock. If I have at least four by tomorrow evening, I will open the Stardock and CFC threads tomorrow night (along with the first year of turns).

Who's in for a pound?

- Bam-Bam
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Bam-Bam
Bam-Bam

February 23rd, 2004, 3:39 am #2

nt.
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Bam-Bam
Bam-Bam

February 23rd, 2004, 4:05 am #3

OK, folks, I have done some AW playtesting, and am ready to start the next RB succession game.

Version: GalCiv 1.2
Party: War Party (+50% hitpoints)
Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and hitpoints (+20%).
Galaxy Stats: Large, tight, common
Difficulty: Painful (All Intelligent AI--std alignment)
All victory conditions DISABLED. (None of them amount to AI victory anyway, so why bother?)

Variant Rules: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

You must leave the UP at the start of the game. You must declare war on all MAJOR opponents as soon as possible.* You may make no trades with MAJORS. You may never, ever make peace with any MAJOR. Until you control all of the galaxy or are wiped from the galaxy, there will always be war without end.

12 turns (one year) per player.
Standard 24/48 rules. Game will be hosted at the Civfanatics "All Other Games" forum, as before.

*Unlike Civ3, there is not a diplomatic means to declare war, except by offering to attack one race while in contact with another race. We will have to play this one by ear. This is (almost) Always War, since we are allowing diplomatic relations with the minors. With this size map, the war declaration is likely to occur via diplomatic communications with a minor civ, or attacking an enemy ship once starfighters or corvettes are present.

Note also that by leaving the UP--there is NO TRADE between planet, even with minors.

I bumped up the difficulty from Smegged's game, since we are allowing peaceful relations (and tech trading) with the minors. I also bumped the habitablility up a notch, since we will have NO trade income.

First dibs on the signups for RB folks; if I do not get a team of five within a day or so, I will open up to other folks at Stardock. If I have at least four by tomorrow evening, I will open the Stardock and CFC threads tomorrow night (along with the first year of turns).

Who's in for a pound?

- Bam-Bam
This is how it should read:

Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and repair (+20%).
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Joined: February 16th, 2004, 12:36 am

February 23rd, 2004, 6:51 am #4

OK, folks, I have done some AW playtesting, and am ready to start the next RB succession game.

Version: GalCiv 1.2
Party: War Party (+50% hitpoints)
Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and hitpoints (+20%).
Galaxy Stats: Large, tight, common
Difficulty: Painful (All Intelligent AI--std alignment)
All victory conditions DISABLED. (None of them amount to AI victory anyway, so why bother?)

Variant Rules: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

You must leave the UP at the start of the game. You must declare war on all MAJOR opponents as soon as possible.* You may make no trades with MAJORS. You may never, ever make peace with any MAJOR. Until you control all of the galaxy or are wiped from the galaxy, there will always be war without end.

12 turns (one year) per player.
Standard 24/48 rules. Game will be hosted at the Civfanatics "All Other Games" forum, as before.

*Unlike Civ3, there is not a diplomatic means to declare war, except by offering to attack one race while in contact with another race. We will have to play this one by ear. This is (almost) Always War, since we are allowing diplomatic relations with the minors. With this size map, the war declaration is likely to occur via diplomatic communications with a minor civ, or attacking an enemy ship once starfighters or corvettes are present.

Note also that by leaving the UP--there is NO TRADE between planet, even with minors.

I bumped up the difficulty from Smegged's game, since we are allowing peaceful relations (and tech trading) with the minors. I also bumped the habitablility up a notch, since we will have NO trade income.

First dibs on the signups for RB folks; if I do not get a team of five within a day or so, I will open up to other folks at Stardock. If I have at least four by tomorrow evening, I will open the Stardock and CFC threads tomorrow night (along with the first year of turns).

Who's in for a pound?

- Bam-Bam
Sounds interesting. Sign me up. (As if there was any doubt :P)
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Zed
Zed

February 23rd, 2004, 1:25 pm #5

OK, folks, I have done some AW playtesting, and am ready to start the next RB succession game.

Version: GalCiv 1.2
Party: War Party (+50% hitpoints)
Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and hitpoints (+20%).
Galaxy Stats: Large, tight, common
Difficulty: Painful (All Intelligent AI--std alignment)
All victory conditions DISABLED. (None of them amount to AI victory anyway, so why bother?)

Variant Rules: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

You must leave the UP at the start of the game. You must declare war on all MAJOR opponents as soon as possible.* You may make no trades with MAJORS. You may never, ever make peace with any MAJOR. Until you control all of the galaxy or are wiped from the galaxy, there will always be war without end.

12 turns (one year) per player.
Standard 24/48 rules. Game will be hosted at the Civfanatics "All Other Games" forum, as before.

*Unlike Civ3, there is not a diplomatic means to declare war, except by offering to attack one race while in contact with another race. We will have to play this one by ear. This is (almost) Always War, since we are allowing diplomatic relations with the minors. With this size map, the war declaration is likely to occur via diplomatic communications with a minor civ, or attacking an enemy ship once starfighters or corvettes are present.

Note also that by leaving the UP--there is NO TRADE between planet, even with minors.

I bumped up the difficulty from Smegged's game, since we are allowing peaceful relations (and tech trading) with the minors. I also bumped the habitablility up a notch, since we will have NO trade income.

First dibs on the signups for RB folks; if I do not get a team of five within a day or so, I will open up to other folks at Stardock. If I have at least four by tomorrow evening, I will open the Stardock and CFC threads tomorrow night (along with the first year of turns).

Who's in for a pound?

- Bam-Bam
Interestingly, I've never played an always war game in Civ3, as I anticipated the unit micro would be too much -- moving 100+ units every turn was never my cup of tea. I could have hoped for a smaller map this time, but we'll see what happens. Fleets and faster speeds may help keep unit management under control.
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Joined: August 29th, 2001, 4:26 am

February 23rd, 2004, 1:31 pm #6

OK, folks, I have done some AW playtesting, and am ready to start the next RB succession game.

Version: GalCiv 1.2
Party: War Party (+50% hitpoints)
Bonus picks: 3 picks each weapons and soldiering (+30% each). Two picks hitpoints (+20%). One pick each courage (+25%) and hitpoints (+20%).
Galaxy Stats: Large, tight, common
Difficulty: Painful (All Intelligent AI--std alignment)
All victory conditions DISABLED. (None of them amount to AI victory anyway, so why bother?)

Variant Rules: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

You must leave the UP at the start of the game. You must declare war on all MAJOR opponents as soon as possible.* You may make no trades with MAJORS. You may never, ever make peace with any MAJOR. Until you control all of the galaxy or are wiped from the galaxy, there will always be war without end.

12 turns (one year) per player.
Standard 24/48 rules. Game will be hosted at the Civfanatics "All Other Games" forum, as before.

*Unlike Civ3, there is not a diplomatic means to declare war, except by offering to attack one race while in contact with another race. We will have to play this one by ear. This is (almost) Always War, since we are allowing diplomatic relations with the minors. With this size map, the war declaration is likely to occur via diplomatic communications with a minor civ, or attacking an enemy ship once starfighters or corvettes are present.

Note also that by leaving the UP--there is NO TRADE between planet, even with minors.

I bumped up the difficulty from Smegged's game, since we are allowing peaceful relations (and tech trading) with the minors. I also bumped the habitablility up a notch, since we will have NO trade income.

First dibs on the signups for RB folks; if I do not get a team of five within a day or so, I will open up to other folks at Stardock. If I have at least four by tomorrow evening, I will open the Stardock and CFC threads tomorrow night (along with the first year of turns).

Who's in for a pound?

- Bam-Bam
Take the difficulty down to where I had it. Trust me, the game will be hard enough as it is. Looking back on my trial game, I had at one stage 59% of the galaxy under my direct control. That included two high PQ planets that the Torians had surrendered to me. I did make some mistakes in that game which I do not intend to make again, however, the starting conditions were skewed so badly in my favour that I almost thought I was cheating. Controling over half the galaxy after initial expansion was not enough to sustain me. Don't get too ambitious with the difficulty just yet. Remember that Maso players started playing SGs on lower difficulty levels.

The real reason that AW in Galciv is so hard is the double hit on income. The major hit on income is the loss of trade. The second major hit on income is the lack of population that comes from both pop lost to transports, and due to the fact that you will not get all the trade goods/moral buildings that you normally get. Trading with minors may help a tiny bit, but to keep up militarily you will have to research the ship techs and power-up techs anyway, which gives you less tech trade options. The higher the difficulty, the deeper and faster the downward spiral goes. I kept up and did OK until the AI got their first Death Knights. Once they got them into my ranks, I had no hope. There are no lucky rolls in Galciv.
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Zed
Zed

February 23rd, 2004, 1:36 pm #7

Interestingly, I've never played an always war game in Civ3, as I anticipated the unit micro would be too much -- moving 100+ units every turn was never my cup of tea. I could have hoped for a smaller map this time, but we'll see what happens. Fleets and faster speeds may help keep unit management under control.
Are we planning to run any other SGs concurrently for those not up to always war? Some folks were interested in a TDG or possibly a game other folks at Stardock might be a bit more comfortable joining.
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Joined: August 29th, 2001, 4:26 am

February 23rd, 2004, 1:42 pm #8

Take the difficulty down to where I had it. Trust me, the game will be hard enough as it is. Looking back on my trial game, I had at one stage 59% of the galaxy under my direct control. That included two high PQ planets that the Torians had surrendered to me. I did make some mistakes in that game which I do not intend to make again, however, the starting conditions were skewed so badly in my favour that I almost thought I was cheating. Controling over half the galaxy after initial expansion was not enough to sustain me. Don't get too ambitious with the difficulty just yet. Remember that Maso players started playing SGs on lower difficulty levels.

The real reason that AW in Galciv is so hard is the double hit on income. The major hit on income is the loss of trade. The second major hit on income is the lack of population that comes from both pop lost to transports, and due to the fact that you will not get all the trade goods/moral buildings that you normally get. Trading with minors may help a tiny bit, but to keep up militarily you will have to research the ship techs and power-up techs anyway, which gives you less tech trade options. The higher the difficulty, the deeper and faster the downward spiral goes. I kept up and did OK until the AI got their first Death Knights. Once they got them into my ranks, I had no hope. There are no lucky rolls in Galciv.
Another thing that I forgot about was destabilisation.

In the AW game I played I was hit hard by destabilisation (I assume by more than one AI). When this happens it's almost impossible to get out of, since the only way to raise happiness is to lower taxes/build buildings (which costs a lot of time). If you lose control of the Senate, it's game over. Hitpoints go down on all your ships, and you usually lose stats in another vital area (especially painful if you lose it to the populists).
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Bam-Bam
Bam-Bam

February 23rd, 2004, 3:17 pm #9

Take the difficulty down to where I had it. Trust me, the game will be hard enough as it is. Looking back on my trial game, I had at one stage 59% of the galaxy under my direct control. That included two high PQ planets that the Torians had surrendered to me. I did make some mistakes in that game which I do not intend to make again, however, the starting conditions were skewed so badly in my favour that I almost thought I was cheating. Controling over half the galaxy after initial expansion was not enough to sustain me. Don't get too ambitious with the difficulty just yet. Remember that Maso players started playing SGs on lower difficulty levels.

The real reason that AW in Galciv is so hard is the double hit on income. The major hit on income is the loss of trade. The second major hit on income is the lack of population that comes from both pop lost to transports, and due to the fact that you will not get all the trade goods/moral buildings that you normally get. Trading with minors may help a tiny bit, but to keep up militarily you will have to research the ship techs and power-up techs anyway, which gives you less tech trade options. The higher the difficulty, the deeper and faster the downward spiral goes. I kept up and did OK until the AI got their first Death Knights. Once they got them into my ranks, I had no hope. There are no lucky rolls in Galciv.
Hmm--I see your points, Smegged.

However, I am not sure I agree with you. With the bump up of habitability, local economy will mean more than with lesser habitability. Also, the tech trading will have a tremendous impact (playtesting it showed I could get to Frigates and have planets moderately improved 2-4 years faster with minors trading on the table). I'd hate to bump it down all the way to Challenging (which is all bright AIs), but I am not sure how having some bright and some intelligent would affect balance.

My playtesting has not progressed beyond frigates, so I will defer somewhat to your judgement, Smegged. I prefer to leave the difficulty where it stands (also note, the difference between Bright and Intelligent is not that great.

==================================================
From Frogboy--here are the intelligence levels that AIs can be assigned

[IntLevel0] 4 Fool
[IntLevel1] 14 Beginner
[IntLevel2] 36 Sub-Normal
[IntLevel3] 42 Normal
[IntLevel4] 50 Bright
[IntLevel5] 60 Intelligent
[IntLevel6] 65 Genius
[IntLevel7] 100 Incredible
===================================================

Let's hear from the rest of the signups (Zed and Isit), before making a final call. Worst case, I have a good start for my first AW try. :p
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Bam-Bam
Bam-Bam

February 23rd, 2004, 3:46 pm #10

Are we planning to run any other SGs concurrently for those not up to always war? Some folks were interested in a TDG or possibly a game other folks at Stardock might be a bit more comfortable joining.
There are two (maybe three) other immediate SG ideas I have cooking.

1) pseudo-TDG (or full up TDG). Painful level (all intelligent AI). No diplo bonuses or speed picks. No tech trading for cash (not sure if the 1.2 fix was for just maso level here). Large map, occasional habitability, loose clusters. Party and bonus picks up for grabs (other than what is mentioned above). According to Frogboy's last transmission (that I can find) on AI intelligence levels, the "intelligent" level is about even with the human as far as income goes, so this looks like a reasonable level to start.

2) LotR5, "Tactless Darius" Varient. No self-initiating of any diplomatic communication. Can accept or reject AI offered deals. All freighters sent to nearest AI planet (this one may need tweaking). Crippling difficulty (all Genius AI). Galaxy parameters, party, and picks all up in the air (except diplo would be mostly useless :p ).

3) Maso SG--no holds barred medium size map. No rules. Open to all comers who want to kick maso around on what is thought to be the hardest map setting. Stick with medium, uncommon, scattered. Party and picks up in the air (partial to no diplo picks). This one could also be run as an OPEN game, to encourage more participation.

4) Clone Wars Prequel. Pit the alliance teams from Stardock in a small maso game as an opportunity to trash talk before the game submission spamming of the First Clone Wars competition. This would be up to four teams of 4-5, with a goal to finish before 1 March. Small, tight, occasional, federalists, with influence, sensor, weapons, and trade bonus picks (distribution tbd).
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