Boundary Problems

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1:18 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #1

This is my boundary wall at the moment.



I have problems with this in two directions. People tend to step over the wall and walk through the front garden, even to the point of coming up and looking in the windows. I have problems growing anything because there is no filtration of winds.
I was planning to increase the height of the pillars and set in some very heavy-duty trellis on my side of the wall but even doing that I cannot have even the pillars above one metre high, which would mean the trellis would be lower than that, not giving me much protection at all. I can go for planning permission to have it higher but to be honest I cant see them granting it and it is going to cost 110 just to apply for the planning permission.
Now I am thinking along the lines of Plan B. Planting highly wind resistant plants along the boundary, preferably with some nasty prickles on them as well, such as rosa rugosa. With the money I save on planning permission and putting the trellis up I could get a fair few plants.
There is a certain advantage to this (as long as I can actually get something to grow along there) in that I can prune the plants to varying heights to suit myself.
Im feeling a bit cheesed about it all at the moment to be honest as this was a major part of my plans for the front garden. Any thoughts or ideas that you have would really be appreciated.
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jo m 1
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1:33 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #2

Planning departments are a law unto theirselves, Pip!
I reckon that some nice 'non-people-friendly' shrubs along there would be just the job!
Berberis? Mahonia? rosas? Hebe? Rhodies? Escallonia? Hawthorn?
even pampas & that ilk have unfriendly leaves
These might be tough enough to withstand those sea breezes
need to get the thinking cap on now!
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2:03 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #3

Definitely the prickly way - Berberris have nasty thorns .
I know , I'm moving one . My sister is bringing me out more that she is removing from her yard .
I plan to put them along the back fence area where whoever it is keeps climbing across in the middle of the night rooting through our vehicles - or trying to .
And Yes ,hawthorns are vicious for sure Jo .Saw my first one at Lowes this past weekend - made me hurt just to look at it
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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PauleneS
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2:35 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #4

Just a little thought Pip, remember the Spartium Junceum you wanted identifying some time back? (Spanish Broom)
You know it puts up with your winds and the salt, and you know its rather prickly without actually having thorns ... what about that?
Otherwise I think go with the rugosas,
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3:06 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #5

EXTRA HIGH LAYLANDY STOP THE WIND UPSET THE NEIGHBOUR

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markleic26
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3:26 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #6

what about a 1 metre high picket fence set a few inches away from the inside wall?
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salli c
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4:07 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #7

What a pain Pip. You had that idea all sorted too
Has anyone else down your road got a boundary over 1m tall? If so, then you might get planning permission. I can't believe peeps have the cheek to climb over your wall and walk across your garden
I reckon planting would be the best kind of boundary. You've seen this link before, but there are some good suggestions for coastal hedging here

xx-Sal-xx





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scotia10
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4:37 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #8

You have my sympathy Pip.
Let me raise a couple of points;
1) The 900mm (3ft) height is for safety reasons, both yours and the general public.
It is for sight lines i.e. when you drive out from your drive you can look over the barrier from a sitting position.
2) Be careful about you choice of plants too, e.g. 'prickly ones'
I say this because no matter what type you put in, rubbish will congregate in it/them, be it as a result of people or the wind blowing it in.
The result is...you will be the only one 'prickled' as you clear it out.
When the rubbish gets down between the wall and the shrub retrieving it it can be quite painful.
I know I have been there!!
My choice of plants would be weepers & standards, e.g Willow, Roses, Buddlea, Junipers.
These would give a semi open aspect rather than a solid aspect like a hedge.
With careful choice you could have floral,deciduous and evergreen subjects throughout the year.
Thats my tuppence ha'porth for what it is worth.

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macywack
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4:39 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #9

Think I would go for hedging, although looks as though you will need a fair few plants, but try...
www.hedging.co.uk (Buckingham nurseries)
www.highwinds-hedging.co.uk
www.glebe-farm-hedging.co.uk
or
01580 765600 (Hopes Grove Nursery)
all specialise in hedging materials
macy
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4:43 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #10

I,ve got shrubby honeysuckle it stands up to the wind and salt, but its deciduous.
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pipnsox
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7:10 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #11

Thanks for your thoughts so far I've never seen berberis or mahonia in a sea front condition. I wonder if they would be any good? Rhodies are definately a no no, the poor leaves would just not survive the winds. Hebe and Escallonia are two good possibles, but not sure about hawthorn. Oh it is such a headache when the poor plants have to cope with so much salty wind.
I think planting Spartium Junceum on the boundary would be pushing my luck a bit Paulene. The one I had before was on the boundary with a neighbour and she decided to chop it back her side and managed to kill it so I dread to think what casual passers-by are likely to do, but it has made me remember Genisia hispanica which could be a good one to provide a prickly area that isn't so tall.
Sal, no one in close proximity has a wall or fencing over a metre tall although they do appear when you get around the side turnings. The trouble is this house is in such a prominent position that I think they will be very wary of giving planning permission, even though in my opinion it would look lovely. Thanks for the link Sal. I am working my way through the list to see just what would be suitable for my needs.
Your thoughts on not having too many prickly plants is excellent Scotia. I must admit that I hadn't thought about it that way around. Oh dear, something else to put into the equation.
I really didn't want to end up with a thick hedge. I wanted to plant interesting specimens that would lend themselves to the rest of the garden when it's developed. I also want to have different height levels so that, I can maintain some view of the sea from downstairs. I want it all don't I?
Macy, although I have said I don't want a full hedge as such I think your links will be helpful in my finding sturdy plants that could stand up to the conditions, albeit that I would purchase in smaller quantities to get groupings.
Ann I like the idea of your shrubby honeysuckle. I am not fussy about the plants being evergreen because that would be just asking too much in these conditions.
I think I had better start sorting myself out properly with a list of suitable plants so any more ideas would be appreciated.
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8:16 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #12

All you need is 1 yes one rose called Rambling Rector, it is a white rose that only flowers once. It will grow 60 foot high and wide and grab anything that comes close, Theresa take note.
We where shown a slide of this rose and it covered a wall and roof of a barn.

Trevor
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Mrs Muggleton
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8:27 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #13

Have absolutely nothing of any use to assist other than could you put up little signs saying Private Garden..
But..
I cant believe your front garden is SOOOOOOOOOOO BIG!!
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wannabegardener
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8:36 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #14

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Theresa take note
and you know I did !
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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8:40 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #15

Pip I had problems at the other house with peeps taking a short cut across my garden via the wall, this is what I planted (I know I'm not coastal) Gause, holly, hawthorn, barberris, pyracantha, I used a long handles pickeruper (type disabled use, I bought it from a mobility shop) to get at the rubbish the nasty youths used to shove into the shrubs. No nasty scratches and rubish free garden Hope you get it sorted soon. I also used a hedge trimmer to keep it tidy.
helen
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jo m 1
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9:25 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #16

Helen's beaten me to it - I was going to suggest the long handled picker-upper too
They're a wonderful invention!
Also handy for picking up slugs etc..........prior to flinging them onto the roadway to get squished
still thinking!
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9:37 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #17

On the plant front, I believe Tamarisk will take almost anything thrown at it by the sea Pip.
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11:12 PM - Mar 03, 2004 #18

Oooo yes, tamarisk...graceful, arching, pink flowers, puts up with salt...just need to decide tetranda or petranda (sp)
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12:44 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #19

My suggestion was going to be Buckthorn - although it is very prickly. The NT plant it in their hedgerows on the cliff tops so I guess it must withstand both wind and salt spray. I also know it's very wildlife friendly.
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Beaver97
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2:22 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #20

Another thought for the equation......
What about bramble fruit? Blackberry, Rasberry, gooseberry and such things? OK, the varieties may vary for the conditions but the idea is the same.
Peeps can pick the fruit from the outside, but would they want to come over the wall?
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mammaj
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7:47 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #21

My solution to a spot where people "get in" wouldn't be practical for such a large area, I just filled the place with very fresh farmyard manure. Worked wonders Mammaj

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salli c
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8:36 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #22

Grasses would probably work well as dot plants where you want a bit of extra height Pip.


xx-Sal-xx





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PaulineM
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10:39 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #23

If a rose would survive the conditions, the real triffid is 'Kiftsgate' - you'd definitely only need one, and no-one is going to get past it!
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11:10 AM - Mar 04, 2004 #24

Another though impractical solution would be two large rotweillers Probably keep the neighbours in order as well.
The long handled picker upper is great for litter picking amongst thorny bushes as helen and jo said. Possibly you could let whichever you choose to grow quite high and have 'windows ' at appropriate places so you don't lose your seaview Pip.
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8:22 PM - Mar 04, 2004 #25

Pip
Have sent you an email with a list of seaside plants.
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mammaj
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9:59 PM - Mar 04, 2004 #26

Nah, we've got a rottweiler & he'd at most drown you with saliva or nick your bag (mind you he's only 3 months), later on well Mammaj

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10:06 AM - Mar 05, 2004 #27

Pip
Possibly a solution might be something that provides a physical barrier but does not interfere with your view or others' sight lines.
I was thinking along the lines of driving in metal posts (old scaffolding poles?) a little distance from the wall to whatever height you can get away with. Drilling a couple of holes through each one, then running heavy gauge wire around (or however many tiers you want). This, of course, would look horrible bare (like a prison camp!) but would provide a quick and, given the length of the perimeter of your garden, relatively cheap answer.
You would then have a framework on which to grow climbers and ramblers - anything that gets out of hand could just be pushed back on the wires and tied in.
Just a thought! Laurel
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pipnsox
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10:34 AM - Mar 05, 2004 #28

Whow, thanks again for all your thoughts.
I like the idea of the long arm picker-upper. That could really come in handy.
I like tamarisk as well PM but all those bushes you see in the picture on the edge of the beach are tamarisk so, apart from having one to give a bit of contorted height I think I will leave those alone.
I'm hoping to use Buckthorn for the pavement side of my front/back garden CA. I shall have two low walls there with the buckthorn planted inbetween. I need to somehow made sure that the suckers can't penetrate into the garden though so that is another project
Never thought of bramble fruit, now that is a different idea - maybe I could stand there and start up a coastal pick your own farm
Funny that you mention farmyard manure mammaj, cos my initial plan is to rotovate the area near the wall and then put loads of goodness down and leave it to do it's thing. Don't think I will be very popular with my neighbours but who cares.
I'm definately going for a few different grasses Sal, but I feel I need something to create a wee bit more of a barrier right by the wall.
Good point about the windows Lily. I don't want the perimeter to look like a hedge or a barrier. I want to make the most of each part of the garden and have plants that I enjoy, that's why I like the idea of the genista hispanica where I don't have so much height.
Love the idea of the rottweilers, but reckon they will spend more time galloping over on the beach than protecting the house
Your idea of the wires has given me another idea Laural. Will work on that one and see what possibilities it has.
I may not been around the forums much now as I have so many plants to look up on Google. I will get there in the end and maybe in a few years time you will see a different piccie of the front garden
Thanks again for all your ideas.
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11:31 AM - Mar 07, 2004 #29

I'm too late on this one but good luck with whatever you decide.
Louisa

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11:32 AM - Mar 07, 2004 #30

Nah, not too late Loopy. It's my ten year plan
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scotia10
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1:13 PM - Mar 07, 2004 #31

My tuppence ha'porth Pip
Currently you are in a very open situation and to go for a solid hedge for example would be the other extreme.
A bit claustrophobic if you like
How I see it is to go a bit 'wispy'........
I can see a small copse of three Silver Birch trees with there leaves twinkling in the sea breezes, I see their coloured leaves in the autumn and their speckled bark in the winter.
These coupled with a few clumps of different coloured 'Dogwoods' (Cornus) again I have summer and winter colour.
If you want something that is a bit more solid looking, but colourful, stick in a clump of 'Copper Beech with their multicoloured leaves.

These also retain the leaves throughout the winter,and even allowing for the fact that these leaves are dried up and dead, they look quite nice when covered in frost.
The other thing they let you know when spring has arrived i.e.they drop their old leaves and sprout their new ones supposedly when all risk of frost has past.
And a big weeping Willow in the corner, hanging there like a big spider in the winter.
As I said this is my tuppence ha'porth for what it is worth............the final decision is yours.


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pipnsox
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2:39 PM - Mar 07, 2004 #32

Awwwww Scotia I built up a lovely picture in my mind when I read your posting. Regrettably we often get very high winds here, being exposed to the prevailing south westerlies.
We had a cornus in the back garden, sheltered by comparison, and the winds broke down the lovely stems. The cherry tree that has been in the back garden for around twenty years constantly has to be pruned to shape because it grows at an angle of 45 degrees. All this behind a 5' wall that, in turn, is behind a line of Ilex trees.
I completely agree that I do not want to feel enclosed by a high hedge. This is the way a lot of neighbours have gone and to be quite honest it is really claustrophobic. My ideas at the moment are to have a number of individual shrubs that will create a windbreak, but to stagger them with lower shrubs such as genista hispanica that will prevent the yobbos entering the front garden. Where I have lower shrubs I am going to try to have mini windbreaks within the garden to break the wind down even more.
It's going to be a massive task but I am determined to get it right (we wasted so much money when we first moved here attempting to grow things like photinia and other evergreens in the back garden).
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7:27 AM - Mar 09, 2004 #33

You could add a little bit of diamond fencing here and there?
That could could support some nice climbers.
Louisa


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4:55 PM - Mar 14, 2004 #34

In one of today's Sunday Telegraph supplements the following article was written by Elspeth Thompson - and I thought it might give you some ideas Pip:
Tapestry Hedges
Last weekend, a mechanical digger made a trench a foot wide and deep around two sides of our house by the sea. When the work was done, the squat little cottage was half-hidden by the soil up around it. The trench is part of the preparations for the rabbit-proof fence that I wrote about a few weeks ago, the next stage will be to lay chicken wire across the base and sides of the trench. The final job will be to put in the uprights for the post-and-rail fence. The final job will be to put all the soil back. But what soil it is! In an area that is predominantly shingle, I was heartened to see such quantities of "proper", if stony, earth.. It gave me extra enthusiasm when choosing plants to fill in the gaps in our hedge.
The previous residents, who were keen gardeners before they up on the place and allowed it to become overgrown, had planted a pretty, if patchy, hedge along the main roadside boundary. Among the plants there that I like are: a white lilac; a neat mound of the daisy bush (Olearia), which does so well in seaside conditions; a red-stemmed dogwood; a white rugosa rose; and a spirea that spreads to the size of a large fountain when its sprays of white flowers appear in spring. Some of the plants need cutting back to remove old wood and encourage better flowering (or, in the of the dogwood, new redder stems for next winter). Between others are quite sizeable gaps that are crying out for new plants. And what better opportunity than when a ready-made trench hard alongside has saved me the trouble of digging? I set about compiling a list of favourite plants that would be suitable for the job.
Top of the list were the winter and early spring-flowering shrubs - wintersweet (Chimonanthus praecox), the scented winter honeysuckle (Lonicera fragrantissima) and witch hazel (I chose Hamamellis vernalis 'Sandra' - an unusual mid-yellow variety with a maroony-purple "eye&quot . I also went for quite a large plant of the lovely Cornus mas, which has little puffs of chartreuse blossoms all over the bare branches in February and March. This and Corylopsis pauciflora are the sort of plants that you wade through woodland to inspect, lured by a far-off glimpse of their intriguing blooms. A couple of small-flowerd clematis can scramble among the branches when the spring show is over.
I love lilac, and I chose Syringa x josiflexa Bellicent (a true lilac colour with slightly more open flower-heads) and the gorgeous, deep crimson S. Charles Joly to complement the existing white bush. I can hardly wait to carry branches of heady perfumed blooms into the house next May. Because lilac is such a boring plant after its one splurge of glory, roses and buddleia, with their later flowering period, seemed a good choice to plant nearby. Rugosa roses make excellent hedging plants, and I picked out the deep crimson Roseraie de lHay to join the existing white one. Rosa rubrifolia is an old favourite, for its subtle grey-green foliage as much as its simple, single pale-pink flowers, and the creamy, pink-tinged 'Madame Alfred Carriere' will scramble through a small sumac tree and ramble along the roof of the veranda. For buddleia, I chose b.davidii 'White Profusion, which has beautiful silvery-grey foliage as a complement to the pure white blooms, and the lovely B. alternifolia, one of those plants I've longed to own, which has arching racemes of tiny mauve flowers in June.
To fill the smaller gaps, and establish new areas of hedging, I bought bundles of bare-rooted guelder-rose {Viburnum opulus), hazel (for its catkins) and hawthorn. Bare-rooted plants are not only cheaper (from around 1 per plant if you pick the right place), they should also establish quickly. They all went in with a good mulch of well-rotted manure around the roots. I can't swear that the hedge looks lovely right now, with the existing plants pruned back hard and some of the new ones little more than sticks in the soil. But in my mind's eye it is already next spring, and a glorious tapestry of colour, scent and texture.
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8:01 AM - Mar 15, 2004 #35

I've had a wee bit of good news. The one metre high applies to the pavement side and not my side of the garden. Although there isnt a big difference in height there is enough to make it worthwhile. I'm going to build the pillars up to the maximum height and infill with trellis to help filter the wind.
This is, at least, going to help the perimeter plants get established and stop hands leaning over and destroying young plants. It's also going to give me a bit of privacy from people walking around the front garden.
I am planning to have odd trellis structures within the front garden Louisa to add a bit of dimension and help with climbers, but I shall also have climbers scrambling over some of the shrubs to extent the colour season. I just love seeing plants in the company of one another, just got to let them grow a bit first.
CA, that is a wonderful article. I am off googling again now to see what I can add to my list. That's so much for putting it up for me.
I'm beginning to get a good list of shrubs together that are suitable for the perimeter now and sometime I'm hoping to put information on my own site so that you can see how each of them fairs.
Thanks again for all your help. Beginning to get all about it now

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9:08 AM - Mar 15, 2004 #36

oops im late again
Think i would go with varied plantings around the edge as this would deture people from 'popping' over the wall as they wouldnt have a clear route thus making it much more difficult, and not worth the effort, and you could keep the views clear, you know me no good on plant names but can lend a hand when you want one ( Johns of course)
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