"Do the orders still stand?" Who was he?

Joined: February 13th, 2008, 6:51 am

August 4th, 2010, 9:20 am #1

Fact #9
http://911truthnews.com/the-facts-speak-for-themselves/

From the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), Dick Cheney allegedly monitored Flight 77 from 50 miles outside of Washington D.C. This, according to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta. According to Mineta, “during the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

The 9/11 Report states that Cheney didn’t arrive in the PEOC until 9:58. No video conferences from within the PEOC have been made available. No personnel records for who was in the PEOC have been made available. The “young man” Norman Mineta mentioned has never been named, and was never brought before the 9/11 Commission to testify publicly.


On 7/28/2010, James Dorman finally identified the “young man” as being Douglas Cochrane. According to 9/11 Commission notes, he was interviewed on April 16th, 2004, though we can not see what he said. He is not mentioned in the 9/11 Report.




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Joined: February 13th, 2008, 6:51 am

August 4th, 2010, 9:23 am #2

"Do the Orders Still Stand?" Who was he?
by jimd3100 July 28, 2010, 01:32:58 AM


He seems to be Naval Aide Douglas Cochrane. I'll get to how he is identified in a moment. First.....

The 9-11 commission has this scenario in the PEOC, instead of the one described by N Mineta.....

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President. The military aide returned a few minutes later, probably between 10:12 and 10:18, and said the aircraft was 60 miles out. He again asked for authorization to engage. The Vice President again said yes"
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

This may or may not be true, but the fact is Cheney can't prove it(the part of him getting shoot down authorization), what Cheney is doing is protecting the President, along with Sec of Def Rumsfeld, who are the only two people authorized to issue shoot down orders. Neither one did so, and conspired together not to.................

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Looks like we have some selective amnesia there doesn't it?

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

I mean....it's right there. The official story is probably right, about the passengers having to take over 93, because no one was authorizing any shoot down order, until the attacks were over. It's a proveable fact that no shoot down orders were given until after the last plane (Flight 93) went down. They had no intention of disrupting what they needed to happen. It's very unlikely a pilot would take it upon himself to kill a plane load of civilians without authorization.

Here's evidence of a stand down. If the President gave Cheney an order, and it was a shoot down order they can't prove it. They should be able to do that. Besides, the last plane (flight 93) went down at 10:03 or 10:06, It's a proveable fact that no shoot down orders were given before that time. Instead the proof indicates any order before 10:20 had to be a stand down because ......

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

"The Vice President's military aide told us he believed the Vice President spoke to the President just after entering the conference room, but he did not hear what they said. Rice, who entered the room shortly after the Vice President and sat next to him, remembered hearing him inform the President, "Sir, the CAPs are up. Sir, they're going to want to know what to do." Then she recalled hearing him say, "Yes sir." She believed this conversation occurred a few minutes, perhaps five, after they entered the conference room."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"Among the sources that reflect other important events of that morning, there is no documentary evidence for this call, but the relevant sources are incomplete."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.pdf

This is where the military aide's testimony would be crucial, what was the order he was given? But again......even if he says it was a shoot down order, it came from Cheney, and he and Bush (who insisted on testifying together) can't prove it, and Cheney is protecting Bush and Rumsfeld both, who never did issue shoot down orders.

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

That's when Bush issued the shoot down order. 10:20 Rumsfeld never did.

"Bush remained in the classroom for "five to seven minutes" after learning of the second crash as the children around him continued reading. He had his first conversation with Cheney at about 9:15."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... n17_2.html

But wasn't issuing shoot down authorization. How come? How many buildings does it take? How about if the pentagon gets hit, how about then? Still.....Nope.......

"Bush and Cheney spoke again at 9:45, while Bush was on the tarmac aboard Air Force One. By that time, both towers of the World Trade Center were aflame and the Pentagon had been hit."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... n17_2.html

Pretty outrageous. Still, no intention on giving shoot down authority. If any orders were given, they were stand down orders.

The last plane went down at 10:03 to 10:06...most likely by the passengers. These passengers were in a no win situation, but surely prevented 9/11 from being even more catastrophic than it already was, the nations capital was it's target, and these traitors sure weren't going to stop it.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes, Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Here's Condi Rice lying to you.....

"Q At one point that morning, the President gave an order to the Combat Air Patrol pilots giving them permission to shoot down U.S. commercial airliners. How did that decision come about, and how did you take on board the gravity of that decision?

DR. RICE: The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B ... f-Rice-003

John Farmer exposes this false statement in his book "The Ground Truth"......

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day." page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Unto ... 203&sr=1-1

Cheney made the command on his own (no matter what it was) The first authorization came at 10:20, according to Arie Fletcher's notes and he was taking notes for this reason, to keep track of what time things were happening for historical purposes.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

Remember:

"At some time between 10:10 and 10:15, a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out. Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft. His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

If he did authorize shoot down, he told the President later....here, after he already did it, if he didn't issue a shoot down, he was given the authorization at this later time, after the fact......

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive, "in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing." The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

This is not what Mineta said by a long shot. Mineta said he didn't even know it was a shootdown order, he makes it clear he that he heard what Cheney said and quotes him. (Whipped his neck around and said "of coarse the order still stands"...etc...)

Libby has already been convicted in a court of Law of lying under oath to protect Cheney. So this story seems false and contrived. This Military Aide's testimony is important. So who is he?

The person telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...60 miles out...etc...is described as his "Military Aide". This would be the "young man" as Mineta described him. Unless there are two different people telling Cheney the plane is 80 miles out...the plane is 60 miles out....this seems extremely unlikely. So who is this military aide?

Check the footnotes, on this scenario, and the only one that applies to Cheney and the "Military Aide" would be this Douglas Cochrane.....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004); Condeleeza Rice meeting (Feb. 7, 2004). For Rice entering after the Vice President, see USSS report,“Executive Summary:U.S. Secret Service Timeline of Events, September 11–October 3, 2001,” Oct. 3, 2001, p. 2; Carl Truscott interview (Apr. 15, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

We know who Rice is. Truscott is a member of the secret service because....
"interviews of the 3 USSS agents in proximity to the President (Eddie Marenzel) and VP (Truscott and Zotto) are still on hold."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B ... gation-511

Yes, they wanted to talk with this Military Aide as seen in this released 9-11 commission memo....

"March 2, 2004
New Requests:
(2)VP Military Aide (I believe his last name is Cochrane): The person at the Vice President's side in the PEOC who should have been intimately involved in the military communications chain is his military aide."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15740811/DM-B ... gation-511

They did talk with him according to the 9-11 commission footnotes, a month and a half after that memo....

"215. Douglas Cochrane meeting (Apr. 16, 2004);"
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

But we can't see what was said in that interview yet.....

"ACCESS RESTRICTED
The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:
Folder Title: White House Timelines"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B ... -Lines-089

This is BS. It's 2010 and we still can't see any part of his interview? This needs to be declassified and released.

Yup, he's military....but not so young...you have to remember Mineta was around 71 at the time......

"Cochrane was selected to serve as the Naval Aide to the Vice President in November of 2000 and served Vice President Richard B. Cheney until December 2002. He was commended by President George W. Bush for distinguished service as Naval Aide and Emergency Action Officer, on and about Sept. 11, 2001."
http://www.mayportmirror.com/stories/04 ... 4001.shtml

Quote from: jimd3100 on July 28, 2010, 02:32:58 AM

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Looks like we have some selective amnesia there doesn't it?


Watch as these lying traitors change their story.......

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed." -- 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

After they talked to the 9-11 Commission, their amnesia was cured. In 2007 author Robert Draper had full access to interview members of the Bush administration for a book including 6 interviews with Bush himself, you can hear him say it here (it's also said on the cover flap of the book he wrote called "Dead Certain")...........

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/8682

Now Bush claims that is exactly what he and Rumsfeld talked about...LOL! These guys are pathetic, it's interesting to see that they now claim, Mineta was correct, Cheney was in the Bunker when the pentagon was hit and The VP Military Aide came in for both flight 77 AND 93.......

What makes Mineta particulary believable is that he should have known wether or not the pentagon was hit by 10:07 (the time the 9-11 Commission is trying to place him in the bunker)because I knew it, and I knew it because I have a TV.....and so did they....

"In the bunker Cheney sat across the table from Secretary of Transportation Norm Mineta, who was talking on the phone to Federal Aviation Administration deputy administrator Monte Belger. An aide to the VP had stepped into the room to inform Cheney that the plane that had been fifty miles outside Washington was now thirty miles away. Then ten miles away. Belger told Mineta that the plane's transponder had been turned off, that the FAA could follow it's progress only on the radar screen."
A minute later, Belger said, "Uh-oh. We just lost the target."
"Where do you think you lost it"? asked Mineta.
"Somewhere between Pentagon City and Reagon National Airport."
Just then a voice cut in: "Mr Secretary, we just had a confirmed report by an Arlington County police officer that he saw an American Airlines plane going into the Pentagon."

Condi Rice saw the televised image in the Situation Room --page 138
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

Later...

"There were 4,546 planes in the air. One of them, Flight 93, was causing particular concern as it U- turned from its westward passage to S.F. and now barreled toward Washington. From Air Force One, Bush conferred with Cheney, who wanted to know if he could be granted authorization to shoot down any planes that failed to respond to orders."
"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back. "You bet," he said." -- page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back."
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

That's not what he and Rumsfeld told the 9-11 Commission, they both came down with amnesia .........

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

This is called getting caught in a lie.

"Look at that!" someone called out, and everyone in the bunker glanced at the TV screen. It was 9:59. ...The South Tower of the WTC collapsed." --page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

Like I said...they had TVs in the room, we all knew the pentagon was hit by 10:00 so how could Mineta not?

"A military aide approached Cheney and requested permission to engage flight 93 with fighter planes. "Yes," the VP said-so calmly that the aide thought Cheney hadn't understood the question. So he asked it a second time, and then a third." --page 139
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

The low ranking guards at Abu Ghraib prison went to jail. "Just following orders" is not a defense for carrying out illegale orders. I was in the military, and you are not allowed to carry out illegale orders. For instance if the Secretary of Agriculture, or the Postmaster General ordered the Military to kill a plane of civilians, that would be an illegale order, because......

"Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense)." page 17/46
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

They would not follow that order because these Generals know it's an illegale order. The VP doesn't have that authority either. Which probably explains why only at 10:31 was the order relayed, after the President authorized it........

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

Claiming Incompetence isn't going to work. Sec Rumsfeld has two records. He is the youngest Sec of Defense ever, and he is the oldest Sec of Defense ever, in other words, he is the most experianced Sec of Def in American history....

"When he was confirmed in 2001, Rumsfeld became both the youngest and the oldest person to serve as secretary of defense."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Inaugura ... ?id=122155

And Cheney was a former Sec of Defense himself. Claiming incompetence doesn't fly.

Bush and Rumsfeld conducted the stand down. Cheney attempted to cover for them.

Cheney is protecting these traitors, Rumsfeld deserted his post and has never been held accountable, and Bush's Saudi and CIA friends assisted the hijackers, and he covered that up like the traitor that he is........

We need Cochranes interview released, to see what he says in regards to the questions they went over with him which can be seen here (Page 7/14).....
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274489/DH-B ... -Lines-089

If one pays attention, the lies are obvious and pathetic, but Rumsfeld was informed of both airstrikes, he just assumed pilots were having a bad day and they were accidents, truly pathetic....

Rumsfelds' story is....he didn't know anything about any terrorist attacks until after the pentagon was hit.
From the 9/11 commission itself....
8:19 Flight attendant notifies AA of hijacking
8:25 Boston Center aware of hijacking
8:38 Boston Center notifies NEADS of hijacking
8:46 NEADS scrambles Otis fighter jets in search of AA 11
8:46:40 AA 11 crashes into 1 WTC (North Tower)

"Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon police was standing outside Donald Rumsfeld's office on the third floor of the Pentagon's E ring. Inside, Rumsfeld, though aware that the World Trade Center towers in New York had already been hit, was proceeding with his regularly scheduled CIA briefing. Davis, on the other hand, had concluded from watching TV news that the country was under attack and the pentagon might be a target." page 1
http://www.amazon.com/Rumsfeld-Rise-Fal ... 204&sr=8-1

On the morning of September 11, Secretary Rumsfeld was having breakfast at the Pentagon with a group of members of Congress. He then returned to his office for his daily intelligence briefing. The Secretary was informed of the second strike in New York during the briefing; he resumed the briefing while awaiting more information. After the Pentagon was struck, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts. -- 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

"The Secretary was informed of the second strike in New York during the briefing; he resumed the briefing while awaiting more information. After the Pentagon was struck, Secretary Rumsfeld went to the parking lot to assist with rescue efforts."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Nope, no shoot down orders coming from that guy.....how obvious and pathetic....and they let him get away with this sh*t.

When Flight 77 hit, the defense secretary thought it was a bomb.
"I had no idea," Rumsfeld said on ABC's This Week.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... meline.htm

King: It was a jarring thing. And you ran toward the smoke?
Rumsfeld: Uh huh.
King: Because?
Rumsfeld: Goodness. Who knows? I wanted to see what had happened.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/ ... riptid=260

Lies and more lies.....

“The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to take place overseas.” -- C Rice
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... 1_timeline

Title of Aug 6 Memo Given to President Bush "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

"After finally getting hold of Rumsfeld and discussing the shoot-down procedure with him, Bush called Cheney back."
http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Certain-Pres ... 0743277287

Nope.....he wont say that to the 9-11 commission, he'll get amnesia......

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

"The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane. He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

BTW the 9-11 Commission was fully aware of Bush and Rumsfelds' stand down and the role Cheney played, and actually expose it, if their report is read carefully, the report was of coarse watered down........

"NEWSWEEK has learned that some on the commission staff were, in fact, highly skeptical of the vice president's account and made their views clearer in an earlier draft of their staff report. According to one knowledgeable source, some staffers "flat out didn't believe the call ever took place."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251871/site/newsweek/

Lies Lies and more Lies.....

The Washington Times
Jets had orders to shoot at airliners
September 17, 2001

"Minutes after terrorists crashed hijacked planes into the World Trade Center, President Bush ordered military jets into the air around Washington with orders to shoot down any airliner that refused to turn away from the city, Vice President Richard B. Cheney said yesterday."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

Minutes? No, it was well over an hour later when the attacks were over. This is a deliberate lie.

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf


"At 10:10, the pilots over Washington were emphatically told "negative clearance to shoot." Shootdown authority was first communicated to NEADS at 10:31."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"Mr. Bush said yesterday he gave the order from Florida on Tuesday morning when he realized "we were under attack."
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

LIE...he gave the order after he found out the last plane crashed.......

"The time of notification of the crash of United 93 was 10:15."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233007

"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

Lie

"DR. RICE: "The President did give the order to shoot down a civilian plane if it was not responding properly. And it was authority through channels by Secretary Rumsfeld, and the Vice President passed the request, the President said yes."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16571537/T3-B ... f-Rice-003

"The authority was not requested through channels, when Secretary Rumsfeld joined the Air Threat Conference Call at 10:30 and was told about the shoot down order by Vice President Cheney, he was clearly unaware of it. Wether the vice president had requested prior authorization from the president is disputed, but uncorroborated by the records of the day." page 260
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Unto ... 203&sr=1-1

"I gave our military the orders necessary to protect Americans; do whatever it would take to protect Americans. And of course, that's difficult. Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

Never in anybody's thought process about how to protect America did we ever think that the evil-doers would fly not one but four commercial aircraft into precious U.S. targets, never," said the president
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

Really? Lie.....

"We told the Americans about the plans to turn planes into flying bombs as far back as 1995," he complained to reporters." -- Gen. Avelino "Sonny" Razon, one of the lead investigators in the Bojinka case
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

"Our investigation has further determined that the use of airplanes as weapons has been widely known for years within the intelligence community in the United States, France and other countries, as a potential strategy to be carried out by Usama Bin laden and his terrorist network."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14863615/T2-B ... -Known-698

Six years before the September 11 attacks, Philippine police took down an al Qaeda cell that had been plotting, among other things, to fly explosives-laden planes into the Pentagon.

"All those years in flight school, he confessed, had been in preparation for a suicide mission. He was to buy, rent, or steal a small plane, fill it with explosives and crash it into CIA headquarters, while others would fly planes into other targets. He mentioned the other targets being the White House, the Pentagon and some skyscrapers. The only problem, Murad complained, was that they needed trained pilots to carry out the plot." --Washington Post
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bust_and_boom.html

"WASHINGTON — In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings."
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sep ... ercise.htm

"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.newsweek.com/2001/09/23/bush ... t-war.html

What needs to be brought out is Cheney does not have the authority to issue shoot down orders. Only the President and Sec of Defense have that authority. They both deserted their posts on 9-11. Cheney is covering for them. The order could indeed be a stand down order, or it could be a shoot down order, or might have been a stand down order, then a shoot down order(when it was to late), according to the Washington post, Mineta was in the PEOC when flight 77 approached the pentagon and the aide came in for both 77 and 93 but who knows....


Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta, summoned by the White House to the bunker, was on an open line to the Federal Aviation Administration operations center, monitoring Flight 77 as it hurtled toward Washington, with radar tracks coming every seven seconds. Reports came that the plane was 50 miles out, 30 miles out, 10 miles out-until word reached the bunker that there had been an explosion at the Pentagon.

later...

In the White House bunker, a military aide approached the vice president.
"There is a plane 80 miles out," he said. "There is a fighter in the area. Should we engage?"
"Yes," Cheney replied without hesitation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

frankly it's a stand down regardless because Cheney does not have the authority to issue these orders.

The VP doesn't have the authority to issue shoot down orders.

The following is correct....

The actual chain of command goes from the president to the Secretary of Defense. The VP has no military authority. His only military job is to not be dead. Yet on 9/11, Cheney was in a bunker giving orders. The claim is that he was "relaying" presidential orders. For some reason the president was unable to give those orders himself from Air Force One, the mobile nerve center of the executive from which a president is able to launch a nuclear war.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-shu ... 53519.html


The authorization to shoot down deviating and unresponsive aircraft was received from the vice president at 10:31 a.m., 15 minutes after NEADS learned that the last hijacked plane, United 93 had crashed. This order was never passed on to the scrambled pilots over New York and Washington. Page 241
http://www.amazon.com/Ground-Truth-Unto ... 203&sr=1-1

Huh? Even then the order was not passed on to the pilots. How come? VP Cheney has no authorization to issue these orders, Bush and Rumsfeld, both deserted their posts on 9-11.....

Furthermore, NORAD did not receive any form of shoot-down authority until 10:31. Even then, that instruction was not communicated to the pilots. There were Air National Guard pilots over Washington with rules of engagement allowing them to engage. But they had received their direction outside of the usual military chain of command and did not get into the skies over Washington until after 10:40
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15677016/911- ... -and-NORAD

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld then used Bob Woodward and the Washington Post to LIE to the American people about their actions on 9-11.......

This series, by Post reporters Bob Woodward and Dan Balz, is based on interviews with President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other key officials.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 175_5.html


Bush then talked to Rumsfeld to clarify the procedures military pilots should follow in trying to force an unresponsive plane to the ground before opening fire on it. First, pilots would seek to make radio contact with the other plane and tell the pilot to land at a specific location. If that failed, the pilots were to use visual signals. These included having the fighters fly in front of the other plane.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 175_5.html

But Bush and Rumsfeld are lieing, and when the 9-11 Commission asked them specifically about them talking at this time and the shoot down orders, they both admitted that isn't what was discussed, what they discussed is ....well....we just don't remember.

I've already speculated why they can no longer remember what they talked about.....


Quote from: jimd3100 on July 28, 2010, 02:32:58 AM
what Cheney is doing is protecting the President, along with Sec of Def Rumsfeld, who are the only two people authorized to issue shoot down orders. Neither one did so, and conspired together not to.................


They could not lie to the Commission about this because to much is well documented.....

"The President apparently spoke to Secretary Rumsfeld for the first time that morning shortly after 10:00. No one can recall the content of this conversation, but it was a brief call in which the subject of shootdown authority was not discussed." - 9-11 Commission
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

They could not lie to the Commission about this because to much is well documented.....


"The Vice President was logged calling the President at 10:18 for a two-minute conversation that obtained the confirmation. On Air Force One, the President's press secretary was taking notes; Ari Fleischer recorded that at 10:20, the President told him that he had authorized a shootdown of aircraft if necessary."
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/repo ... rt_Ch1.htm

"Fleischer’s 10:20 note is the first mention of shootdown authority. See White House notes,Ari Fleischer notes, Sept. 11, 2001; see also Ari Fleischer interview (Apr. 22, 2004)."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/91 ... _Notes.pdf

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Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 8:18 pm

August 4th, 2010, 12:31 pm #3

woah - so it was definitely him, that appears to be certain now.
and his testimony to the 911 commission, is that still classified? he sure didn't want to talk about it on his government cell phone.
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MAC
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 3:23 pm

August 4th, 2010, 2:58 pm #4

Great call.


"The 911 commission report is the authoritative narrative on the events of 911.. I have nothing further to add"

:D That's gonna become a classic!


MAC




edit = just to note a broken link - http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... eme=wt&p_a..
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Joined: October 10th, 2008, 3:25 am

August 4th, 2010, 3:50 pm #5

I have to agree,,,crossed the line there. Any backlash yet?
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Joined: February 13th, 2008, 6:51 am

August 4th, 2010, 4:41 pm #6

Remembering Sept. 11
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stori ... 1040.shtml
By Christopher F. Aguilar Shorelines staff writer, September 10, 2003

As the helicopter that carried Vice President Dick Cheney, his wife Lynne and Ponte Vedra Beach resident Cmdr. Doug Cochrane left the White House on Sept. 11, it flew over the blazing Pentagon.

From his seat, Cochrane, who was Cheney's naval aide at the time, saw the vice president and his wife look out their windows and firefighters trying to extinguish the flames caused by American Airlines Flight 77, which had crashed into the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m.

"There were crews out there battling heroically," Cochrane said.

Ponte Vedra Beach resident Cmdr. Doug Cochrane was Vice President Dick Cheney's naval aide at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He was in the White House that day, and left with Cheney on a helicopter. -- Special

Cochrane had a friend at the Pentagon who, although injured in the attack, helped in the rescue efforts. His friend told Cochrane that around 10:30 a.m. he looked over to nearby Arlington National Cemetery and saw a man holding a large American flag. The man stood there the entire day.


Commemorative events

Here is a listing of events to commemorate the second anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks:

The Freebird Cafe, 200 First St. N., will hold its third annual Musicians Against Terrorism benefit concert Friday through Sunday.The concert will benefit firefighters. For more information, call 246-2473.

St. Paul's by the Sea Episcopal Church, 11th Avenue North and Fifth Street North, will hold a special memorial service tomorrowat 7 p.m. The service, 9/11 Remembrance: A Memorial Eucharist, will be celebrated by interim rector Sudduth Cummings.

The Atlantic Beach Laughter Club will hold an event tomorrow at 7 p.m.at the Adele Grage Community Center on Ocean Boulevard. Kathleen Smith Beaudreau will teach people about the healing power of laughter and how the immune system is stimulated through a series of breathing exercises and "finding the laughter within." The one-hour program is suitable for families and highly interactive. For more information, call 210-5436.

Jacksonville Beach will hold a September 11th Remembrance tomorrow at 7 p.m. at the SeaWalk Pavilion. The Navy Band Southeast's Ceremonial Band and the Jacksonville Harmony Chorus will perform patriotic and symbolic music as part of the evening's remembrance.

The remembrance will also include the Jacksonville Beach Police Color Guard and the Beaches Honor Guard.

For more information, call 247-6100 and press 6.

An observance titled In Honor of Community Heroes in Memory of 9-11 will be held from 6 to 8 tonightat M.K. Rawlings Elementary School on Florida A1A. Boy Scout troops, a SWAT team, deputies from the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office and Ponte Vedra Beach firefighters will participate.

Cochrane is one of several Beaches residents who shared their stories about the tragic events of Sept. 11 in Washington and New York. These Beaches residents experienced or had relatives who were part of the events that unfolded that day.

On the morning of Sept. 11, Cochrane received a call from the White House situation room informing him that an airplane had hit the World Trade Center. American Airlines Flight 11 struck the World Trade Center's north tower at 8:45 a.m.

He ran to the situation room to verify the information, but by then it was already appearing on CNN. Cochrane went to the vice president's office in the White House's West Wing to alert him of the situation. By the time he reached the office, Cheney was meeting with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. The office phone rang and Cochrane heard Cheney say "Yes, Mr. President." He closed the door and returned to the situation room.

About 15 minutes later, United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the south tower at the World Trade Center.

"I watched in real time as the second plane hit," he said. "They then evacuated the vice president and Dr. Rice."

Both the White House and nearby Executive Office Building were evacuated.

"It was pretty orderly under the circumstances," Cochrane said. "People were frightened but not panicked. The Secret Service also stepped up security."

Since President Bush was in Sarasota at the time of the attacks, Cheney took a leadership role during the day.

"I would really wish the American public could have seen the national command authority and the way it worked," Cochrane said. "Cheney was the absolute definition of wartime leader; he was executing the duties of the office of vice president in textbook fashion."

About an hour after first the New York attack, the third hijacked airplane crashed into the Pentagon, which lies west of the White House.

The Pentagon attack increased the level of concern, he said.

"I think everybody realized there was potentially hundreds of targets across the United States," he said. "People were definitely thinking along those lines. This was a full-scale attack by a determined enemy. I think people expanded their potential target list."


Ponte Vedra Beach resident Katrinka Walter, who was working north of New York City in September 2001, says the attacks have shattered her sense of security. -- Diane Uhley/Staff

"At that time, there wasn't just three reports. In [Washington] D.C., what is happening now is fighters are launching from Langley and Andrews [Air Force bases]. There was a lot of calls about explosions, but they were the sonic booms of the interceptors. There was a lot of information that was not correct. It was challenging to sift through all of that."

By this time, Cheney and Cochrane were moved to the president's Emergency Operations Center with a small staff that included Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta.


Mineta had an open communication line with the Federal Aviation Administration's command center at Dulles International Airport. The command center was responsible for landing all planes and identifying other possible hijacked planes, Cochrane said.

A fourth hijacked plane, United Airlines Flight 93, crashed into a field in America's County, Pa., shortly after 10 a.m.


West Beaches resident Sean Reilly's cousin was a New York City firefighter. Capt. Patrick J. Waters, whose pictures are on Reilly's refrigerator, died after going into the World Trade Center's south tower. -- Diane Uhley/Staff

Cochrane said the mood at the operations center was a reflection of its leadership.

"It was very calm and extraordinarily focused," he said. "[Cheney] kept his people focused. His No. 1 priority is he wanted accurate, brief and credible information that he could pass to the president to enable the president to make good decisions. He never wavered from that."

Cochrane said at one point in the morning everybody felt just extraordinary anger at the terrorists' actions.


New York nightmare

In Garrison, N.Y., about 60 miles north of New York City, Ponte Vedra Beach resident Katrinka Walter was working public relations for the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement. The events shut down all communications through phones, faxes or computers.

"We were really isolated," she said. "It was very frightening."

But the biggest fear was that Indian Point Nuclear Facility about five miles south would be the next target.

West Beaches resident Sean Reilly marks the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks at ground zero in New York. He went with the wife of his cousin, New York City Fire Department Capt. Patrick J. Waters, who died at the World Trade Center. -- Special

"It was a real nightmare," Walter said. "We did expect other planes to hit but we didn't know where it was going next."

The monastery decided to hold a memorial service that evening and Walter scrambled to get the notice to the local radio station. About 75 people attended the service.

"I don't have words to describe the horror and the fear," she said. "I finally let down and cried that night."

The whole day, Walter tried to get in touch with her son and daughter, who worked near New York City.

"Not being able to talk to either of them and wondering where they were was a nightmare," she said. "Until you make contact with children, you don't feel safe."

She later talked to them and learned they were home safe, but that day shattered any feeling Walter had of security.

"I don't live in fear, but that feeling of security will never come back," she said. "We continued to feel that we were living under a threat."

In the days following the terrorist attacks, helicopters would patrol the nuclear plant and continued doing so for several months, Walter said.

Walter and her family devised an exit plan in case the attacks were repeated. They would all meet in Katonah, N.Y., and drive north. They also purchased Iosat, a medication used for radiation protection.

"There is something missing now that I took for granted all my life," she said: "That we couldn't be attacked."

Fearing for family

West Beaches resident Sean Reilly was watching the events unfold on television, as did much of the world.

"Just like everyone else I was watching the news," he said. "I'm from New York and got caught up like everyone else did."

Reilly's cousin, New York City Fire Department Capt. Patrick J. Waters, was one of the many firefighters who responded to the distress call to the World Trade Center.

Reilly tried calling his family in New York to find information about his cousin but the phone lines were down.

He saw on television firefighters being brought out from the rubble and at one point thought his cousin's body had been found.

"The hopes were getting slimmer," he said.

It wasn't until Oct. 2, 2001, that he received the call that they found Waters' body. Waters had died from head trauma at Tower Two. Waters' firehouse lost 23 of its 26 firefighters on Sept. 11, Reilly said. Reilly said the last image he has seen of his cousin was in a documentary shown on television.

"He was in the building and ready to ascend the tower," Reilly said. "He was filmed getting his men together and putting his gear on. There was confusion going on.

"He was barking out orders. A bunch of them went up as a group. No one knows how far they made it, but they know they saved a lot of lives."

Reilly went back to the World Trade Center for the one-year anniversary of the attacks. He didn't know if he should have gone but managed the courage to go. His cousin's widow went with him.

"I got in just before the president got in," Reilly said. "It was chaos. We walked down the site to the ring of honor. I put a picture of Ricky there and a photo of another firefighter. It was an unbelievable feeling. It was pretty impressive."

Reilly, who retired from the Navy and served in the first Gulf War, said after the attacks that he wished he could have gone back into the service.

"We could have done more," he said. "We should have done more to prevent that. I felt guilty that we didn't do our job right."

As the second anniversary of the attacks are commemorated throughout the Beaches, those who have a connection to the events said, people must not forget the events of that fateful September day.

"We must not forget those people; we must not forget that day," Walter said.

Staff writer Christopher F. Aguilar can be reached at (904) 249-4947, extension 19, or via e-mail at chris.aguilarjacksonville.com.





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Joined: October 26th, 2008, 4:39 pm

August 4th, 2010, 5:31 pm #7

"The 911 commission report is the authoritative narrative on the events of 911.. I have nothing further to add"



Is it f***!

But I guess that is easy to say on the internet !
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Joined: January 3rd, 2009, 8:18 pm

August 4th, 2010, 11:11 pm #8

well, the guy's on his govt phone, he's ex-military, his testimony is classified. if he'd said anything i'd have been amazed. at least it would appear to have been him that Mineta spoke of, that's something imo. so i guess someone has to try and get his testimony released?
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MAC
Joined: May 21st, 2009, 3:23 pm

August 5th, 2010, 12:49 am #9

All he had to say was "I can't talk about that, it's classified", instead of sounding like a robot.
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Joined: May 19th, 2010, 5:05 pm

August 5th, 2010, 2:08 am #10

MAC wrote:All he had to say was "I can't talk about that, it's classified", instead of sounding like a robot.
Nope

Telling you that it is classified is telling you more than you are allowed to know!

Can't talk about it
I don't recall
I'll get back to you on that (and never do)
or "Go to Hell" are all proper responses when Jeff calls to get classified information

but saying it's classified, is not an option

How do I know?

Sorry, I can't talk about it :X
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