Joined: October 9th, 2014, 8:50 pm

April 7th, 2016, 9:22 pm #11

The PPC shooters are being heard. Change is coming, slowly, nothing is final yet but I think it will be soon.

I believe we will have both revolver and auto 1500's and the Production Match will be rolled into the Stock Auto match, as it should have been from the beginning. The schedule of events for the NPSC will be at a quicker pace than it has been since moving to ABQ and those who have gotten into the habit of hanging back until well after 0800 should hopefully be surprised when the targets turn by 0805 Monday morning.

The delay in starting the Distinguished matches, as well as the Service and Off-duty matches, due to the inspection routine, will hopefully also be a thing of the past. We are trying to go to a 10% random drawing for inspections - immediately after the match has been fired. So, everyone needs to be sure their gun is up to par and capable of pulling the weights because you never know when your number will be called (except I expect mine will "randomly" be called at every stage). Again, this isn't yet final but I believe it will pass muster.

Once things are final I'll do my best to share the word with everyone. Until then, rest assured the powers that be at the NRA Headquarters have heard us.

Now for a little humor from the November LEAC Meeting. The look on the faces of a couple folks when they stepped off the elevator on the 6th floor and found Robert Vadasz and myself talking with LEAC Chairman Bill Allen in the foyer was absolutely priceless.
MIKE . I PERSONALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE. YOU HAVE GRABBED THE BULL BY THE HORNS, WRESTLED IT TO THE GROUND AND RUBBED THEIR NOSES IN THE DIRT. JUST LIKE WE FEEL THAT THEY HAVE DONE TO US. ALL THE PPC SHOOTERS THAT I HAVE TALKED WITH ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH YOUR EFFORTS. SEVERAL ARE GOING TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THIS YEAR. IF IT GOES WELL THEY WOULD LOVE TO COME BACK TO THE N.P.S.C.. JP
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Joined: August 2nd, 2013, 12:14 am

April 8th, 2016, 1:32 pm #12

JP. Who is Mike who was with Vadasz at the meeting and who posted above? He did some great work along with the others getting the format back.

Thanks
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Joined: September 30th, 2015, 1:43 am

April 8th, 2016, 11:10 pm #13

Ok I was new to the NPSC this last year. I had a lot of fun and I the year prior to the match I had bought several guns to get myself in a position to shoot all the matches at the NPSC. So when the format change came down I was really frustrated as I know all of you were. One of the things I had to do was decide between the stock auto and service revolver divisions. I settled on the stock auto and sold my service revolver to defray some of my costs of attending the NPSC. So then went to NPSC and shot all the divisions I could with the guns I had. One of the things I learned was my Sig P225 was a handicap in the Production division. So I went ahead and bought a nice Springfield XDM. Great gun! So now I see they are going to do away with the production division and merge in to stock auto? I already have a stock auto 1911. So now the rule change will once again cause one of my guns to become boat anchors? The gun I just sold last year will now be useful to me again?FRUSTRATING! Please keep stock auto and production divisions. Please allow people to shoot the guns they have and don't do away with any divisions or make them obsolete as was done last year. Keep them all. I really enjoyed the NPSC last year and will attend again this year but will be really pissed if the new rules once again make a gun I just bought obsolete. Anybody agree? Frustrated in JAX.
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Joined: April 26th, 2010, 9:03 pm

April 11th, 2016, 1:22 pm #14

There have been other changes in the past that caused the same problems. The Off Duty Revolver Match was originally based on 5 shot strings. You could load 5 in a 6 shot revolver or use a 5 shot revolver. When the course of fire was changed to 6 shot strings a bunch of 5 shot revolvers were made obsolete, and you had to buy another gun. The Distinguished Semi Auto Match originally required a max 5 1/2" barrel. The change was made to allow 6" barrels, so the shorter guns were pretty much obsolete. Yeah, if you had a 6" auto you could use that, unless it had a rib sight. So you had to buy another gun. Some of us tried to use the 5" PPC9 with a replacement sight for the Stock Auto, but that was shot down, another gun to leave in the safe. Stock Auto was originally a fixed sight gun. Then they changed the rules to allow adjustable sights. Another gun to buy. So, you see, you are not unique in your dilemma. I'm sure there have been other changes. Best suggestion I can make is don't get rid of any of your handguns. The rules may change to allow them again.
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Joined: September 30th, 2015, 1:43 am

April 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm #15

KAC49

Agree with most of what you said. I just disagree with the previous poster who was lobbying to combine Stock Auto and Production. Let's not be our own enemy and make our own guns obsolete.
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Joined: June 26th, 2015, 12:31 am

May 5th, 2016, 7:41 am #16

MIKE . I PERSONALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE. YOU HAVE GRABBED THE BULL BY THE HORNS, WRESTLED IT TO THE GROUND AND RUBBED THEIR NOSES IN THE DIRT. JUST LIKE WE FEEL THAT THEY HAVE DONE TO US. ALL THE PPC SHOOTERS THAT I HAVE TALKED WITH ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH YOUR EFFORTS. SEVERAL ARE GOING TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THIS YEAR. IF IT GOES WELL THEY WOULD LOVE TO COME BACK TO THE N.P.S.C.. JP
Thanks for the kind words Jim, Robert, Phillip and Cathy as well as Bill Allen and Dwight Van Horn all put a lot of effort into making it happen.
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Joined: June 26th, 2015, 12:31 am

May 5th, 2016, 7:54 am #17

Ok I was new to the NPSC this last year. I had a lot of fun and I the year prior to the match I had bought several guns to get myself in a position to shoot all the matches at the NPSC. So when the format change came down I was really frustrated as I know all of you were. One of the things I had to do was decide between the stock auto and service revolver divisions. I settled on the stock auto and sold my service revolver to defray some of my costs of attending the NPSC. So then went to NPSC and shot all the divisions I could with the guns I had. One of the things I learned was my Sig P225 was a handicap in the Production division. So I went ahead and bought a nice Springfield XDM. Great gun! So now I see they are going to do away with the production division and merge in to stock auto? I already have a stock auto 1911. So now the rule change will once again cause one of my guns to become boat anchors? The gun I just sold last year will now be useful to me again?FRUSTRATING! Please keep stock auto and production divisions. Please allow people to shoot the guns they have and don't do away with any divisions or make them obsolete as was done last year. Keep them all. I really enjoyed the NPSC last year and will attend again this year but will be really pissed if the new rules once again make a gun I just bought obsolete. Anybody agree? Frustrated in JAX.
Todd,
Just so you know, when the Production was originally pitched at the 2013 Competitors Meeting it was proposed to be included in the Stock Auto Match AND be the shooter's choice, just like the Off-Duty Match. Somehow during the off-season that morphed into a stand alone match with an accompanying Team Match and was included in the Aggregate. That meant that nearly EVERYONE had to go out and buy another gun. My Glock, which could have been used was illegal due to the fact I changed the rear sight for duty use years ago. The idea of making it a stand alone match most likely sat squarely on Glen Hoyer's shoulders.

The decision to make Production a stand alone match I believe is what prompted dropping a 1500 from the schedule. That wouldn't have happened if Production was included in the schedule the way we had proposed.

The following year (2014), to try to make everything fit, Hoyer and crew decided to make the Team Matches non-fired paper matches. We had to fight to get the fired event back and now there is a rule that states Team Matches at the NPSC will be fired matches (17.5.1).

And for the record, yes, I bought a new Springfield XD just for the Production match. I'm sure I'll find a use for it, just not at the Nationals.
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Joined: June 26th, 2015, 12:31 am

May 5th, 2016, 8:08 am #18

The PPC shooters are being heard. Change is coming, slowly, nothing is final yet but I think it will be soon.

I believe we will have both revolver and auto 1500's and the Production Match will be rolled into the Stock Auto match, as it should have been from the beginning. The schedule of events for the NPSC will be at a quicker pace than it has been since moving to ABQ and those who have gotten into the habit of hanging back until well after 0800 should hopefully be surprised when the targets turn by 0805 Monday morning.

The delay in starting the Distinguished matches, as well as the Service and Off-duty matches, due to the inspection routine, will hopefully also be a thing of the past. We are trying to go to a 10% random drawing for inspections - immediately after the match has been fired. So, everyone needs to be sure their gun is up to par and capable of pulling the weights because you never know when your number will be called (except I expect mine will "randomly" be called at every stage). Again, this isn't yet final but I believe it will pass muster.

Once things are final I'll do my best to share the word with everyone. Until then, rest assured the powers that be at the NRA Headquarters have heard us.

Now for a little humor from the November LEAC Meeting. The look on the faces of a couple folks when they stepped off the elevator on the 6th floor and found Robert Vadasz and myself talking with LEAC Chairman Bill Allen in the foyer was absolutely priceless.
Last Friday we received word that the LEAC voted to follow our recommendation for the NPSC.

Both 1500's are back, the Stock Auto Match will be shooter's choice if they are shooting a Stock Auto or a Production Auto. There should be little to no delay for the Distingushed Matches due to having to wait to have triggers weighed - Referees should be available to check guns at the NPSC check in and shooters will be randomly weighed at the conclusion of each relay (after you've fired) - no more standing and waiting for 30-45 minutes cooking in the bullpen. For those who truly hate the Shotgun, well numerous competitors at last year's Competitor Meeting complained about having their Aggregate sunk by one stray pellet, so the Shotgun has been eliminated from the Aggregate. There is still a Shotgun Match but it will be optional.

Now we just need to increase our competitor/attendance numbers. If everyone could just get another shooter to come out to ABQ for the NPSC we could meet the challenge. Doesn't matter if it is a first timer at the Nationals of one of the more seasoned shooters returning.

I'm sure there is stuff I'm forgetting but its late.

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Joined: August 21st, 2013, 3:31 pm

May 5th, 2016, 2:52 pm #19

First let me say, congrats on "trying" to make the changes and "listening" to the what the competitors have to say and their concerns. Also, all the hard work and time put in by the aforementioned folks. However, I fear that PPC is dying. This is just an opinion and we all know about them. Once the site moved to its present location, that was just the beginning of the end and loosing shooters. The time the cost, the lack of the depts. support and almost a total lack of interest in this from the new breed is slowly putting the last few nails in the box. The old die hard competitors are dying off and can no longer compete(me included) is the happening. In my area alone,St.Louis, our league that was so strong for close to 50 years is all but dead. We cannot get any new people whatsoever and I fear the league is done. If this is the norm rather than the exception, than I say good luck and hopefully a fresh surge will take place, but I honestly feel it will not happen. I really hope I am wrong. Again, kudos for the all the efforts by those involved.
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Joined: September 30th, 2015, 1:43 am

May 10th, 2016, 2:19 am #20

Todd,
Just so you know, when the Production was originally pitched at the 2013 Competitors Meeting it was proposed to be included in the Stock Auto Match AND be the shooter's choice, just like the Off-Duty Match. Somehow during the off-season that morphed into a stand alone match with an accompanying Team Match and was included in the Aggregate. That meant that nearly EVERYONE had to go out and buy another gun. My Glock, which could have been used was illegal due to the fact I changed the rear sight for duty use years ago. The idea of making it a stand alone match most likely sat squarely on Glen Hoyer's shoulders.

The decision to make Production a stand alone match I believe is what prompted dropping a 1500 from the schedule. That wouldn't have happened if Production was included in the schedule the way we had proposed.

The following year (2014), to try to make everything fit, Hoyer and crew decided to make the Team Matches non-fired paper matches. We had to fight to get the fired event back and now there is a rule that states Team Matches at the NPSC will be fired matches (17.5.1).

And for the record, yes, I bought a new Springfield XD just for the Production match. I'm sure I'll find a use for it, just not at the Nationals.
Does all this mean the service revolver and stock auto are now not a pick one but rather shoot both for score at NPSC this year?
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