Case Filling - does it affect accuracy

Joined: August 21st, 2013, 3:31 pm

December 18th, 2016, 2:43 am #11

Very interesting feedback.
Congrats on your success. I am really surprised getting that kind of grouping out at 50 with that light of boolit and light loading.
More questions,
What brand of boolit and where did you get them? Not aware of any swaged 100 grainers in states.
This being a semi wadcutter, I assume you mean shoulder of boolit 1/8" below case mouth?
What is your make of PPC gun? What twist in bbl? Bore diameter? Why is it only Winchester brass will work in it???

You are correct in concentrating on windage dispersion as opposed to elevation for grouping.
You pic showed up and that is impressive grouping. Is this consistant? Have you tried 24 rounds for a group considering this is what you will shoot from 50 yards? Considering factory advertised velocity for 149 grain full wadcutters is 702-720 this is surprising to me.
I could never get a taper crimp to give me same accuracy of a light roll crimp. What brand die are you using? What is the diameter of these bullits?
Thanks
JB
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Joined: September 8th, 2014, 8:24 am

December 18th, 2016, 5:01 am #12

Thanks JB, lead you up the garden path sorry, they are cast bullets, not swaged.

An old friend of mine makes them down in Adelaide, Sth Australia - Spartan http://spartanprojectiles.boxhost.me/index.html) they are 357 diam.

No, the top of the projectile is 1/8th below, fills a lot of airspace up. Probably why only Win cases will fit, a lot thinner walls on the brass than other manufacturers.

Gun is a S&W mod 14 with an Apex barrel 1-8 twist .355. I have had the gun for some 15 years now, built by a friend of mine who has built more than he would like to admit. The cylinder has nice tight chambers (and one not so) which works well.

I normally shoot 24 shot groups and are comparable to what you saw, I couldn't find one to show but have always said to myself that one cylinderful at a time in 4 different positions is the match.

Crimp die is an old RCBS that I have had for 20 plus years now.

cheers
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Joined: August 21st, 2013, 3:31 pm

December 18th, 2016, 3:38 pm #13

Toney,
Interesting feedback. You "may" have hit on something with your technique and unorthodox load(as opposed to the norm).Always interested in others ideas, can always learn something.
Normally don't get the consistent boolits with "cast" products, so your friend's product must be good quality control and consistency.
1:8 twist bbl not common here at all. Of course Apex not available here any longer that I am aware of. 1:14 or 1:12 being the desired twist for the 148 grain wads. Swaged of course. The only decent cast .38 boolit I ever got good results from was from an old vintage H&G 6 cavity 148 wadcutter mold that was well seasoned and broke in. Used linotype and wheel weights combined and alox lube that gave me very consistent rounds. Don't cast anymore. Had to kick up the load to get any decent grouping with it.
Right now the most accurate boolit has been the Remington 148 grain wadcutter, that for some reason or another dried up. Never fails.
Surprised you don't have any reload hang-up's with the boolit down in the case, with no lead in or roll crimp to keep from possibly hanging up on the cyl edge.
Here is my contact in case you want to e mail me or need any help with holsters
jbcustom-leather@att.net
Again thanks for feedback.
JB
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Joined: June 19th, 2016, 9:39 pm

December 18th, 2016, 10:57 pm #14

Its all really interesting guys. I was wondering as well in terms of crimp do you find a difference with crimp and hbwc rounds? I'd been advised just to straighten the bell and use a very light taper crimp. What are your thoughts?
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Joined: September 8th, 2014, 8:24 am

December 19th, 2016, 6:01 am #15

Toney,
Interesting feedback. You "may" have hit on something with your technique and unorthodox load(as opposed to the norm).Always interested in others ideas, can always learn something.
Normally don't get the consistent boolits with "cast" products, so your friend's product must be good quality control and consistency.
1:8 twist bbl not common here at all. Of course Apex not available here any longer that I am aware of. 1:14 or 1:12 being the desired twist for the 148 grain wads. Swaged of course. The only decent cast .38 boolit I ever got good results from was from an old vintage H&G 6 cavity 148 wadcutter mold that was well seasoned and broke in. Used linotype and wheel weights combined and alox lube that gave me very consistent rounds. Don't cast anymore. Had to kick up the load to get any decent grouping with it.
Right now the most accurate boolit has been the Remington 148 grain wadcutter, that for some reason or another dried up. Never fails.
Surprised you don't have any reload hang-up's with the boolit down in the case, with no lead in or roll crimp to keep from possibly hanging up on the cyl edge.
Here is my contact in case you want to e mail me or need any help with holsters
jbcustom-leather@att.net
Again thanks for feedback.
JB
JB, I managed to take a snap of a loaded case and the projectile. Pity about the quality of the image, bit like me fuzzy.

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I believe the projectile is an old H&G design, as a lot of the good ones are. I do like a HBWC but trying to find decent quality swaged pills is getting harder. And at an affordable price.

The taper crimp aids in directing them into the cylinder, and with practice I don't even think twice these days.

Irish-PPC - Pretty much all you want to do is to put enough pressure on the pill so it doesn't move forward. Due to the softness of the lead it is easily deformed and made undersized. I have posted here before that I had a belling die made up at 357 and the same length as the HBWC so the HBWC's would slide in without causing the skirt to be crushed as most dies are made at 355 and short. Always a taper crimp in my books, but personal preference.

Glad for the chat guys, keep it up

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Joined: September 8th, 2014, 8:24 am

December 19th, 2016, 10:41 am #16

Better luck this time...

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Joined: September 8th, 2014, 8:24 am

December 19th, 2016, 10:44 am #17

[URL=<img src="http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/tonyk ... l.jpg.html][IMG<span class="link">http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... 1ncx3l.jpg" alt="[linked image]"></span>[/IMG][/URL]
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Joined: August 21st, 2013, 3:31 pm

December 19th, 2016, 5:15 pm #18

Tony,
Thanks for pic, interesting to say the least, but the results are what counts. If I can get my hands on some of these, have to give it a try. With the head down that far in the case definitely takes up air space, and with the light charge wouldn't be too concerned about a pressure problem. Apparently you have shot quite a few with no problems. Also, bullet jump from cyl. to bbl no real negative problem either according to your groups. What about wind effect, any experience along this line when testing?
I have seen some vintage H&G molds on the E-Bay sight in past. Those were prob some of the best boolit molds made my opinion.
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Joined: January 22nd, 2012, 7:12 pm

December 21st, 2016, 1:46 am #19

JB, I'm following this thread with interest also!!
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Joined: December 21st, 2016, 3:52 am

December 21st, 2016, 4:11 am #20

I first tried these 100 gr pills while competing at the 2011 World PPC champs in Sweden. The Aussie shooters were using them on the line beside me. At first I thought they were shooting .22s! They gave me 200-300 to bring home and test. I was impressed. No smoke. No recoil. No dirty hands, and incredibly accurate out to 50 yards with a power factor of only 70. Unfortunately no bullet manufacturer in North America makes them. That was until this year! I personally purchased the bullet moulds and have partnered up with a Canadian bullet maker who also offers the HI-Tek bullet coating. The first batch should be ready early January. They are a dream to shoot!

Regards
Roly
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