Accurate load with 158 bullets

Joined: March 31st, 2009, 3:23 pm

March 31st, 2009, 3:30 pm #1

I am having problems finding a load that will shoot accurately at 50 yards out of my 4" and 6" M686's. I am limited to 158grn LSWC or LRN bullets but can get HP38, VV310, VV320 and AA No.2 propellants. They will all shoot fine out to 25 yards but not at 50yards. Both guns shoot well at that range with Magtech factory 158 grn LRN (3" group if I do my part) so I'm trying to duplicate that load.
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PPC Ken
PPC Ken

April 2nd, 2009, 1:54 pm #2

First of all, if you are shooting in the PPC Distinguish Revolver match - remember you must use FACTORY loaded ammo. OK, being done with that: try 3.0-3.2 grs. of HP-38 (or WW 231 which is the exact same powder but more expensive!), Precision Delta 158gr SWC with match lube, Fed 100 primer, and I use the same light roll crimp as on my 148 wadcutter bullets. Load to a COL of 1.450" give or take. This shoots well in my 2.5", 4", and 6" 686 - although at 50 yards I do have to aim at the top of the 9 ring to get them to drop into (hopefully) the 10/X ring - and I do this 'cause you cannot crank the stock S&W sights high enough to offset the trajectory at that range. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. ken

PS - Have had very good luck (at 50) with factory ww158 SWC and Precision Delta's 158 SWC ammo. Remington's 158SWC looked like I used a shotgun on the target at 50 - coulda been me or the gun!
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JB
JB

April 3rd, 2009, 6:27 pm #3

I am having problems finding a load that will shoot accurately at 50 yards out of my 4" and 6" M686's. I am limited to 158grn LSWC or LRN bullets but can get HP38, VV310, VV320 and AA No.2 propellants. They will all shoot fine out to 25 yards but not at 50yards. Both guns shoot well at that range with Magtech factory 158 grn LRN (3" group if I do my part) so I'm trying to duplicate that load.
Try 3.5 of IMR PB. Seat 1.460 oal with light roll crimp
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Joined: April 3rd, 2009, 8:07 pm

April 3rd, 2009, 8:17 pm #4

First of all, if you are shooting in the PPC Distinguish Revolver match - remember you must use FACTORY loaded ammo. OK, being done with that: try 3.0-3.2 grs. of HP-38 (or WW 231 which is the exact same powder but more expensive!), Precision Delta 158gr SWC with match lube, Fed 100 primer, and I use the same light roll crimp as on my 148 wadcutter bullets. Load to a COL of 1.450" give or take. This shoots well in my 2.5", 4", and 6" 686 - although at 50 yards I do have to aim at the top of the 9 ring to get them to drop into (hopefully) the 10/X ring - and I do this 'cause you cannot crank the stock S&W sights high enough to offset the trajectory at that range. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. ken

PS - Have had very good luck (at 50) with factory ww158 SWC and Precision Delta's 158 SWC ammo. Remington's 158SWC looked like I used a shotgun on the target at 50 - coulda been me or the gun!
I have done extensive testing with various loads. The most accurate for my M14 is Factory Winchester 158 Grn LRN. These are a shallow hollow base bullet. In trying to dublicate it I found W231 to be the most accurate powder. Federal Gold Medel Match Primers will tighten you group noticably at 50 yards. Good luck and keep em in the X-ring!
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Joined: March 31st, 2009, 3:23 pm

April 8th, 2009, 10:02 pm #5

First of all, if you are shooting in the PPC Distinguish Revolver match - remember you must use FACTORY loaded ammo. OK, being done with that: try 3.0-3.2 grs. of HP-38 (or WW 231 which is the exact same powder but more expensive!), Precision Delta 158gr SWC with match lube, Fed 100 primer, and I use the same light roll crimp as on my 148 wadcutter bullets. Load to a COL of 1.450" give or take. This shoots well in my 2.5", 4", and 6" 686 - although at 50 yards I do have to aim at the top of the 9 ring to get them to drop into (hopefully) the 10/X ring - and I do this 'cause you cannot crank the stock S&W sights high enough to offset the trajectory at that range. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. ken

PS - Have had very good luck (at 50) with factory ww158 SWC and Precision Delta's 158 SWC ammo. Remington's 158SWC looked like I used a shotgun on the target at 50 - coulda been me or the gun!
Thanks for the info. I am training up for the World Police & Fire Games in Vancouver, Canada in August. We will be shooting Federal factory ammo at the competition even thought the WPFG rules permit reloads. I had been using 3.6 grains of HP38 without success so I hope that the smaller charge might do the trick. I have found what seems to be an OK load with AA No.2 under a Magtech 158 LRN bullet but I have a few thousand LSWC's that I need to shoot first.

Cleland
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Joe
Joe

May 10th, 2009, 4:36 am #6

First of all, if you are shooting in the PPC Distinguish Revolver match - remember you must use FACTORY loaded ammo. OK, being done with that: try 3.0-3.2 grs. of HP-38 (or WW 231 which is the exact same powder but more expensive!), Precision Delta 158gr SWC with match lube, Fed 100 primer, and I use the same light roll crimp as on my 148 wadcutter bullets. Load to a COL of 1.450" give or take. This shoots well in my 2.5", 4", and 6" 686 - although at 50 yards I do have to aim at the top of the 9 ring to get them to drop into (hopefully) the 10/X ring - and I do this 'cause you cannot crank the stock S&W sights high enough to offset the trajectory at that range. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. ken

PS - Have had very good luck (at 50) with factory ww158 SWC and Precision Delta's 158 SWC ammo. Remington's 158SWC looked like I used a shotgun on the target at 50 - coulda been me or the gun!
I agree with this advice.My best distinguished scores with a 686 6" were shot with 3d brand 158 gr.swc lead bullets and 3.2 grains 231 powder with a federal primer.Should have shot a 598 distinguished score in a local match but choked on the last 6 rounds at the 25 when the target turned and i saw my group from the 50, and shot a 592 instead.
I went distinguished shooting federal factory ammo in the registered matches and they were noticeably hotter.
my handloads had no problem holding the x ring, at the fifty, off of a sandbag.
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Larry Malin
Larry Malin

May 23rd, 2009, 7:51 am #7

Try 3.5 of IMR PB. Seat 1.460 oal with light roll crimp
When debating the merits of this ammo vs that ammo I think it behooves us to take into account the mechanical condition of the revolver (or any other firearm) that we are trying to get to shoot well. Do we have good barrel to cylinder alignment, is the forcing cone cut concentric to the bore and the proper depth, and is the barrel crown square and concentric with the bore? Are the cylinder throats uniform and LARGER than the barrel bore. If the cylinder throats swage the bullet down smaller than the barrel bore then poor accuracy will result The best ammo (or load) in the world won't shoot worth a damn if the gun is not capable. I became revolver distinguished in '93 using Precision Delta ammo. It is very accurate out of my Model 19 S&W but I have worked over the cylinder throats, set the barrel back one turn and recut the forcing cone square and concentric to the bore as well as recut the barrel crown square and concentric to the bore. The barrel/cylinder alignment is good. I am now shooting bullseye with this same gun and picked up 6 points (Bullseye Revolver Distinguished) last year at a Phoenix Regional match using Precision Delta ammo. I have had good luck using Ken's load with WW231 powder and Federal #100 primers seated to his OAL using Remington bullets in my S&W 686's. I am going to try some Laser Cast 158 grain bullets as their 45 and 9MM bullets shoot VERY accurate out of my Les Baer .45 and SA 9MM Longslide. The BASES of these bullets are VERY UNIFORM and SQUARE and THAT is as important as a square and concentric barrel crown. The Remington 158 grain bullets bases are not real uniform so I sort them for match shooting. (I am a licensed ammo manufacturer so I can load my own new manufacture Distinguished ammo.) Last but not least in this lengthy disertation is CONSISTANCY in your LOADER operation. Rob Leatham covers this in his Precision Loading with the Dillon progressive loader video. I have an excellent article (making revolvers shoot) that Ron Power gave us during a revolver tuning class I took way back in 1991. I will share it with anyone interested just leave me an e-mail address and I'll scan it to you.
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Joined: March 25th, 2012, 5:42 pm

September 6th, 2012, 3:08 pm #8

Hi Larry,
I am a new member to the forum and read your posting. I have talked with Ron many times when
he attended the "Nationals" what pleasant person he is. I am sorry he is no loner building guns,
his quality will be missed. If you still offer the above mentioned article may I have a copy?

Respectfully Submitted,
Bill
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Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 3:17 pm

September 6th, 2012, 8:37 pm #9

First of all, if you are shooting in the PPC Distinguish Revolver match - remember you must use FACTORY loaded ammo. OK, being done with that: try 3.0-3.2 grs. of HP-38 (or WW 231 which is the exact same powder but more expensive!), Precision Delta 158gr SWC with match lube, Fed 100 primer, and I use the same light roll crimp as on my 148 wadcutter bullets. Load to a COL of 1.450" give or take. This shoots well in my 2.5", 4", and 6" 686 - although at 50 yards I do have to aim at the top of the 9 ring to get them to drop into (hopefully) the 10/X ring - and I do this 'cause you cannot crank the stock S&W sights high enough to offset the trajectory at that range. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. ken

PS - Have had very good luck (at 50) with factory ww158 SWC and Precision Delta's 158 SWC ammo. Remington's 158SWC looked like I used a shotgun on the target at 50 - coulda been me or the gun!
TRY REPLACING YOUR REAR BLADE WITH A S&W MODEL 41 REAR SIGHT BLADE
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Joined: August 28th, 2013, 9:41 pm

January 4th, 2014, 12:38 am #10

Hi Larry,
I am a new member to the forum and read your posting. I have talked with Ron many times when
he attended the "Nationals" what pleasant person he is. I am sorry he is no loner building guns,
his quality will be missed. If you still offer the above mentioned article may I have a copy?

Respectfully Submitted,
Bill
3.1 of bullseye with federal primer and 158 swc
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