Breeder/Natural Edge

Ezra
Pokémon Trainer
Ezra
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: April 23rd, 2018, 11:27 pm

May 4th, 2018, 9:33 pm #1

Hello, my good people!

I humbly come to ask your opinion on this matter my friend and I were discussing yesterday, regarding the Natural Edge feature for Breeders.
Our main concern is that, at least in some cases, gaining +6 in two stats may feel a little bit over the top.

Take the Blissey family, for instance: all three of them have Base 1 in both Attack and Defense, which is their main weakness and what makes them all-around balanced Pokémon. If we made it Base 7 in Defense, couldn't they turn into nearly unkillable tanks? And I'm not even considering the possibility of giving them Vitamins on top of that. Idk, it feels kinda weird for me to tamper with Base Stats like that. My friend says that's specially dangerous in these cases where the natural Base Stat of the Pokémon is lower than the bonus itself.

So, what do you guys think? Are we overthinking it, and it won't be as broken as we imagine? Anyone else agrees it's too much? Should we nerf it or let it be?
We'd really appreciate if you shared your thoughts and arguments. Thank you very much!
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Maleolo
Pokémon Trainer
Maleolo
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: August 8th, 2017, 3:45 am

May 10th, 2018, 2:13 am #2

The feature description doesn't specify which pokemon you can apply the bonus. Actually, it says "Add half of your CHA modifier to ANY of the pokemon’s base stat..." and in the recent rulebook "Add half of your DEF modifier to any of the Pokémon’s base stat". But I guess this creates very weird situations, I mean... You can make a fast Slowbro or a Special Burst Rhyperior with this feat, right?

I don't know if already exists a discussion about that, but I really would like to know the opinion of Adms to clear this up.
Last edited by Maleolo on May 10th, 2018, 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Red3394
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: December 12th, 2012, 4:33 am

May 12th, 2018, 3:28 am #3

Not a weird question at all! It's not really as broken as you might think. It's 11:30PM my time, so I'm not really in the mood to run numbers. But if you have a character that goes waaaaay out of their way to build this, let them have it. Their are plenty of ways to overcome this as a GM, Toxic comes to mind. But if they're entirely focused in HP and DEF or SpDEF then it's all too likely they won't have the other stats to actually do any damage on the field and frankly at worst it causes a stalemate.

If you're truly worried about it, talk about it with your players. It will be way easier to ask any reasonable group not to abuse a niche game break than to try and create a perfect solution (and it's a lot faster too.)

That's just my 2 cents though. Happy gaming!
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ZoltanFargo
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: November 15th, 2013, 11:36 am

May 16th, 2018, 1:16 pm #4

I've got a player with Breeder who is giving his pokemon +6 and +5. It sounded scary at first, but it's really not that bad. It's a way for his pokemon to still be relevant vs the ace trainer/type ace in our party who is gaining +20% xp on everything and an additional +30% on his ghosts. But thats just an example from our current game, in comparison the Petrologist is making loads of money from digging up the past along with stone search so she can afford more in the way of tms/hms and vitamins.

From my experience so far it has not been an issue, he has had it at that level for quite some time, from like Level 10 or so? And pokemon were round level 15-20 at that time for most players and it wasn't a problem then. It's most powerful early and falls off later on, remember pokemon eventually get more than 1 stat point per level.

At the end of the day if you feel its overshadowing other features and what other players can do then you do what you feel you need to. I just didn't feel much of a difference, but your mileage may vary etc etc. For reference my game consists of 4 Trainers and none of them feel like they are underpowered or being overshadowed by others.
Don't be afraid of the unknown.
Never back down from a fight.
Stick it out until the end.
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fangirl
Pokémon Trainer
fangirl
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: June 5th, 2018, 11:33 pm

June 6th, 2018, 12:01 am #5

ZoltanFargo wrote:I've got a player with Breeder who is giving his pokemon +6 and +5. It sounded scary at first, but it's really not that bad. It's a way for his pokemon to still be relevant vs the ace trainer/type ace in our party who is gaining +20% xp on everything and an additional +30% on his ghosts. But thats just an example from our current game, in comparison the Petrologist is making loads of money from digging up the past along with stone search so she can afford more in the way of tms/hms and vitamins.

From my experience so far it has not been an issue, he has had it at that level for quite some time, from like Level 10 or so? And pokemon were round level 15-20 at that time for most players and it wasn't a problem then. It's most powerful early and falls off later on, remember pokemon eventually get more than 1 stat point per level.

At the end of the day if you feel its overshadowing other features and what other players can do then you do what you feel you need to. I just didn't feel much of a difference, but your mileage may vary etc etc. For reference my game consists of 4 Trainers and none of them feel like they are underpowered or being overshadowed by others.
When do Pokémon start to gain more than 1 stat per level up? It is mentioned in the rule this happens, but never when, how or how much.
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SilentProtagonist
Pokémon Trainer
SilentProtagonist
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: June 18th, 2018, 8:47 pm

June 18th, 2018, 8:50 pm #6

fangirl wrote:
ZoltanFargo wrote:I've got a player with Breeder who is giving his pokemon +6 and +5. It sounded scary at first, but it's really not that bad. It's a way for his pokemon to still be relevant vs the ace trainer/type ace in our party who is gaining +20% xp on everything and an additional +30% on his ghosts. But thats just an example from our current game, in comparison the Petrologist is making loads of money from digging up the past along with stone search so she can afford more in the way of tms/hms and vitamins.

From my experience so far it has not been an issue, he has had it at that level for quite some time, from like Level 10 or so? And pokemon were round level 15-20 at that time for most players and it wasn't a problem then. It's most powerful early and falls off later on, remember pokemon eventually get more than 1 stat point per level.

At the end of the day if you feel its overshadowing other features and what other players can do then you do what you feel you need to. I just didn't feel much of a difference, but your mileage may vary etc etc. For reference my game consists of 4 Trainers and none of them feel like they are underpowered or being overshadowed by others.
When do Pokémon start to gain more than 1 stat per level up? It is mentioned in the rule this happens, but never when, how or how much.
As far as I can see when reading the rules for leveling up a Pokemon (pg. 202 Core Rules) there is never a time when they gain more than 1 Stat Point.
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fangirl
Pokémon Trainer
fangirl
Pokémon Trainer
Joined: June 5th, 2018, 11:33 pm

June 19th, 2018, 6:05 pm #7

SilentProtagonist wrote:
ZoltanFargo wrote:As far as I can see when reading the rules for leveling up a Pokemon (pg. 202 Core Rules) there is never a time when they gain more than 1 Stat Point.
This is something that I looked into and I believe got lost in one of the updates to the system.
On page 271 (or 136 of the double spread pdf) of players handbook 1.3 is the following excerpt:

- Starting at level 51, Pokemon gain two Added Stats per level gained. These two stats may not be put
into the same Stat. When adding stats, a Pokemon’s Base Relation must still be maintained.
- Starting at level 76, Pokemon gain three Added Stats per level gained. These three stats may not be
put into the same Stat. When adding stats, a Pokemon’s Base Relation must still be maintained.

There are some similar errors in the update from the older editions for 1.5, so at least to me it is uncertain if this was an intended change.
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