The mysterious PAM318

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The mysterious PAM318

Bruno.M1
Paneristi
Bruno.M1
Paneristi
Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:33 pm

November 6th, 2011, 4:02 pm #1

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL

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SAsullivan2002
Paneristi
Joined: October 9th, 2009, 7:29 pm

November 6th, 2011, 5:08 pm #2

...makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the awesome post!!!
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aproster
Paneristi
aproster
Paneristi
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 6:05 am

November 6th, 2011, 5:21 pm #3

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
That movement doesn't even look new, looks like it's been through the ringer!!!

Great pics and great post. eye opening to say the least!





Studio City, CA<b>

</b>
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demand-n-supply
Paneristi
Joined: May 14th, 2006, 7:23 pm

November 6th, 2011, 5:26 pm #4

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Did notice people post how can you open a new Panerai but when somebody open a vintage to show the movement it's cool.

Great post, and amazing pictures thanks for posting this information. This post should be In the Archive.


But I think the movement was not engraved to save time not money. Would have delayed the release a
Few months. From the concept to the boutique the 318 couldn't take more than 2 Months.


For a New York boutique edition more were sold in BH which is also interesting.










Good and evil matched perfect it's a great romance I can deal with some physic pain

Saw you downtown singing the blues It's time to face the music, I'm longer your muse
But everybody's like Cristal, Maybach, diamonds on your timepiece.
http://www.neeraj.net/nranra.jpg http://www.neeraj.net/ca.jpg
In my universe I can't be wrong All those opposed just move along

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Bart74
Paneristi
Bart74
Paneristi
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 12:40 pm

November 6th, 2011, 5:40 pm #5

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
... money talks ... shareholder value ... that's business ...

...abbiamo tempo !

Saluti
Bartholomeo
...abbiamo tempo !

Saluti
Bartholomeo
<img src="http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k56 ... G0790a.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
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PSY76
Paneristi
PSY76
Paneristi
Joined: February 8th, 2006, 4:23 am

November 6th, 2011, 5:49 pm #6

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
I'm glad I was wrong in saying to "move on," you made this extremely interesting!



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1watch
Paneristi
1watch
Paneristi
Joined: March 21st, 2005, 5:29 am

November 6th, 2011, 6:02 pm #7

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
I only own one Panerai and did not buy it expecting to have a movement that has top tier finishing, realizing it has a very basic, inexpensive movement inside. I happen to own a few other brands that take movement finishing very seriously and are at the top tier in that regard.

Having said that, I do find this to be totally inexcusable for a company like Panerai to pass off in a watch that retails for over $4,000. Any top manufacture should at least take pride in what they sell, and this is not an example of such. Even the basic finish on these inexpensive movements should be done out of pride and reputation. I've seen fake Panerai's that have finish almost at the same level of authentic ETA's. This example of dropping a rough movement into a case would be laughable even for a fake! Look at the regulator, there aren't even markings to indicate the + or - adjustment....I would be interested in how the company plans to address this, as it needs to be addressed in my opinion.
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X2TIME
Paneristi
X2TIME
Paneristi
Joined: July 17th, 2010, 2:51 am

November 6th, 2011, 6:09 pm #8

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Great post and effort, thanks for putting it together.

I'd really like to hear what Panerai has to say about this in an official statement. I'd like to know how a catalogue claims an OP II movement and then they put in that ridiculous movement. Also, as the Sidekickster claims, this was most probably due to time constraints, I wonder how many would have completed their "rushed" boutique purchase knowing exactly what was under that solid 'sell you a bridge' caseback?

Also, it's funny to me, how this could possibly be spun into an "error" type collectible. As an unknowing owner, I'd be mad as hell.
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implantdoc
Paneristi
implantdoc
Paneristi
Joined: August 7th, 2011, 9:28 pm

November 6th, 2011, 6:14 pm #9

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Thanks for the informative post.. I didn't post any responses in the previous thread regarding the 318. Didn't have anything that wasnt said...
Having said that, I am fairly new to panerai, discovered the brand this past June and since own a 312. I love my watch and the brand , and like many of you found this 318 news confusing, disturbing, and wanting more answers..
My question is why were there two SE/boutique edition for the NY boutique? I was aware of the one with the statue of liberty case back( not sure on the model number 41?)
Did they come out at the same time? Or was the 318 a " surprise " model like 390,420? Was it to satisfy certain segments who may have missed out on the other Ny boutique edition?
I believe my take on the movement is first diassapointment, ( thought the brand was perceived to be of higher value) followed by confusion, ( why would they do that) then skeptical( mine has a display back so not so much for my model, but other solid caseback)
Read about this on some other forums, ( they were not as kind or understanding) and it just reignited my question...
I wish Panerai would take a proactive approach and quell any questions that is surrounding this issue. Either offer a plausible explanation, admission of their error, since cover up is far worse then the actual mistake, and put this to rest so that the critics can't use this as their fuel or weapon to criticize the brand...
They could offer an apology/ explanation, offer to replace the movement with comparable with the other boutique models, (it's only 150) and I believe that will restore their image and protect the brand . The longer they are silent about it, as if hoping this will go away, somebody will continue to fuel the fire...
Thanks for your thoughts on this matter..

Taylor
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Joseph56
Paneristi
Joseph56
Paneristi
Joined: March 5th, 2011, 3:02 pm

November 6th, 2011, 6:25 pm #10

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Very well researched. Nice effort and great photo documentation. I like the future value and conspiracy theory. I would love to hear a response... I am guessing it was not about saving money, but maybe making a super base.
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Creativez
Paneristi
Creativez
Paneristi
Joined: September 11th, 2011, 10:34 am

November 6th, 2011, 6:43 pm #11

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Great report...
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berryman
Paneristi
berryman
Paneristi
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 4:53 am

November 6th, 2011, 6:45 pm #12

Very well researched. Nice effort and great photo documentation. I like the future value and conspiracy theory. I would love to hear a response... I am guessing it was not about saving money, but maybe making a super base.
Joe: You can't be serious!?!?
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fran91
Paneristi
fran91
Paneristi
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 7:50 pm

November 6th, 2011, 6:46 pm #13

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
senza parole...
like an Italian friend of mine,
i was speechless.

sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge ...
in french we would say :
foutage de gueule...

Panerai was surely running out of time,
the only available eta movement at the time, was probably this one.
is it a good excuse?
Anyway it is not because Panerai hasn't an "historical" reputation in movement making,
that they can feel ok with this.
I don't know if the 318 will become collectable,
but i m sure this "case" is devastating for the brand.

they should communicate about it.
Propose a change of their movement, if the owner wants it,
is to me the least they could do.




Vulnerant Omnes, Ultima Necat.



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sdumperth
Paneristi
Joined: April 13th, 2011, 11:43 am

November 6th, 2011, 6:47 pm #14

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
That is the proof that Panerai really does do something to those ETAs, in all cases but one.

It makes me appreciate what I've got








May the force be with you........................Always!

Being "Individual" is SO expensive! Be appreciative that you have the opportunity, and help others to find themselves.

"Always remember, you can't buy class" -Dad
Always remember, you can’t buy class. -Dad
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masterkiller_1
Paneristi
Joined: February 15th, 2010, 2:45 pm

November 6th, 2011, 7:01 pm #15

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
...a 318 with a movement with that finish I would slam it in the AD's table claiming my money back, it is a disgrace that Panerai quality control will allow that!


/Martin

Last edited by CharlesLC on November 7th, 2011, 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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1watch
Paneristi
1watch
Paneristi
Joined: March 21st, 2005, 5:29 am

November 6th, 2011, 7:09 pm #16

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
is the advertisement of the OP II movement in the brochure as being "Panerai personalized" on the bridges. This is obviously not the case here and represents a very clear misrepresentation of the actual goods. I do believe they need to address this and offer owners a correctly advertised replacement movement. At minimum now, Panerai is risking those in the know feeling duped and doubting the brand's quality and trustworthiness for future purchases. Some may want to see the movement behind any solid caseback on future purchases for peace of mind. This is not the brand image and reputation Panerai should be striving for or accepting with no response in my opinion.
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aboen
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aboen
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Joined: September 2nd, 2009, 4:54 am

November 6th, 2011, 7:38 pm #17

Joe: You can't be serious!?!?
Andrew Boen
NoCal
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B.7924
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B.7924
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Joined: December 20th, 2006, 7:02 pm

November 6th, 2011, 7:53 pm #18

PANERISTI

The mysterious Panerai 318


It took me some time but I managed to find somebody who has a PAM318. I wanted to see this piece irl, I had to see it to believe it.
So thanks to the owner and thanks for having the guts to open this piece.

Let's start with a couple of pics of that good looking piece






Well, the watch itself is not mysterious but the movement is VERY strange.
I know that most Panerai collectors are not very much interested in Geneva stripes, bevelling, gold chatons, perlage, swan neck regulators and all the other thing which
we'll see on good finished movements.


Panerai is a tool watch, right ?
If you want something with a superb finishing, buy a Patek Philippe!
I agree but not 100%. The movement might not be the most important factor when buying a Panerai. Most of us buy them because of the looks, size, robustness, DNA, etc.
On the other hand, since Panerai started making inhouse movements I think we must admit that movements are important too.
Today, with 8 inhouse movements, Panerai is not anymore what it used to be. I went from a tool watch to a toolwatch manufacture.
The calibers P9000 - P3000 - P2002 - P2003 - P2004 - P2005 and P2006 are the reasons why Panerai got a lot of attention. Not only
by those who knew Panerai since years but also by other people who started to respect them because they became a manufacture.
Using ONLY modified ETA- Valjoux ébauches is the easy way but developing inhouse movements is the right thing to do if you want to get respect from all kind of watch collectors .


Anyway, not every movement has to be inhouse. In the past not 1 single was inhouse.Long ago it were ofcourse Angulus and Rolex movements but since 1993 ETA - Valjoux - Unitas was the base movement.

Here you have a list of these well known MODIFIED movements

OP I Panerai used them from 1997, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM000, PAM002,PAM009,PAM010,PAM055,PAM360

OP II ALso since 1997, same , base is the 6497/2, Used for the PAM005,PAM036,PAM082,PAM001,PAM003,PAM004,PAM022,PAM026,PAM056,PAM026,PAM040,PAM037,PAM061,PAM366,PAM412,PAM420,PAM413,PAM414,PAM380,



OP X Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497, used for the PAM219,PAM112,PAM114,PAM176,PAM210,PAM231,PAM232,PAM249,PAM262,PAM116,



OP XI Panerai used them from 2002, base is an ETA 6497/2,Used for the PAM111 ,PAM113,PAM177 ,PAM183,PAM292,PAM127,PAM172,PAM217,PAM118,PAM115 ,PAM117



UNITAS 6497 : basically the same ébauche as the ones above but in the Pré-V era PAM5218-201/A ,PAM5218-201/A,PAM5218-202/A,PAM5218-203/A,PAM5218-205/A,PAM5218-207/A,PAM5218-209,PAM5218-210,PAM5218-218/A,


(the last picture credits to Maurits bollen)


As you can see, this movement is still good for a HUGE part of all Panerai watches.

No problem thus far, You knew what you got when buying one of these watches. If your watch has a display back, you still can admire a good looking movement.
If it hasn't a display back, you know how it looks like because in every Panerai catalog you'll find pics of what an OPI ,OPII,OPX or OPXI stands for.
You'll see it is a Unitas which looks much better than a standard Unitas.

Now what the hell went wrong with the Panerai 318 ???
At first sight one should expect an OP II or OP XI (XI is used for the display back so an OP II would have been the right choice)

But no, the movement seems to be an OP XXIX

This is the difference : The OPII has 21,600 alternations / hour and is COSC, The OP has XXIX 18,000 alternations per hour and is not COSC.

But it is very difficult to get more info on this XXIX, ask Panerai for info and you won't get what you hoped for . Only that the OP XXIX is exclusive for the PAM318.
Yes, the PAM318 is the ONLY Panerai which ever used this mysterious OP XXIX movement.

Now, when you open the watch, you'll see why Panerai doesn't want to give too much info. As much as I love Panerai watches, this is a shame.
Show this to anybody who ever saw some Panerai movements and he'll tell you that you're scammed. Yes, he'll say you bought a fake.
Besides, I took this watch to an AD and had to convince him that this watch is indeed a genuine Panerai. If he wouldn't know me I bet he wouldn't even believe me.


Just look at it. This piece of crap can be found in several watches under 500 euro. It's a cheap completely unfinished Unitas and as far as I know it's not even the best unfinished Unitas.
These movements come in different grades and this is definitely NOT the best they could buy.

This movement has nothing that makes you think it's a Panerai, no Geneva stripes, no bevelling, NO blued screws, no perlage (under the bridges) , there's not even stamped 'Panerai' on any of the bridges
The drilled holes for screws and jewels look bad
And not all of these are just for the looks. Bevelling for example is much more than just a level finishing. bevelling limits the risk of corrosion.

Here you have some pics from the 414 movement (OP II) and the 318 movement (OP XXIX)
For those who are blind, left is the 414 right is the 318












So why the hell did this disaster ever got out of the factory ? Is this an error.Was it supposed to be like this ? I can't imagine it!
I just can't imagine that a top brand like Panerai would risk it's reputation to save a few Euro's. They only made 150 of these so it can't make a big difference. Maybe they saved 15.000 euro on the whole batch
But what is 15.000 euro for a company that sells about 50.000 watches per year at an average of 5.000 (?) euro.

So I give them the benefit of the doubt and I think this was not ment to be. Maybe something went wrong in their quality check process. If this was intended they really would take a big risk because I think nobody will accept
such a thing in a watch which costed several thousands of Dollars 2 years ago.
Besides,if this was intended we would see a lot more references with this XXIX movement (why not all the pig dial boutique watches, the 41x or what about the 366 'FU' for thr Chinese market ?)
If they used this movement for only 150 watches I have a feeling something went wrong and they will never make this mistake again.

Another possible indication that the OP XXIX is a mistake is the fact that in their 'limited edition catalog 1997 - 2010' there is nothing said about the XXIX.
On the contrary, when you look at the PAM318 they talk about an OPII . Is this a mistake in their catalog or are they really ashamed for this error ?
"don't wake sleeping dog" ??? Better say nothing about the XXIX, people might ask questions





Don't worry. Everybody makes mistakes. How or why these 150 slipped through is something we'll probably never know.
But I guess all the work was done and they were ready for shipment, when somebody discovered this mistake and they decided not to start all over again but just rename it to the OP XXIX



From the perspective of a collector I think this is very interesting, I think it can become an instant collectible
Something like an 'error card' or a 'postage stamp error', well you know what I mean.
One day these pieces could become very sought after, with only 150 of them they are VERY RARE.


Maybe I should start looking for one

As a last note, to make it even more mysterious I would like to talk about conspiracy.
You know, there is an American saying ''to sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge' ..... google it's meaning and you'll be quite surprised.
Too lazy ? Here's the meaning;
sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge : to cheat someone in a business deal
American English synonyms or related words for this sense of the Brooklyn Bridge To cheat or trick someone: cheat, rip off, deceive, trick, swindle, entrap, string along, dupe, bilk, double-cross
Nooooooo, please tell me they wouldn't dare and this bridge on the back is coincidence LOL
Fist question, can you show me other Pam318's with this movement?? (that came from different dealers)

I think they have swap the original movement out of the watch. (you can sell that easy for 1200 euro on Ebay)
And put a Fake (Made in China) ETA in it

This is not a Panerai movement. (And I know it, I have worked 3 years as a watchmaker for Panerai)
There is not even the word Panerai on the movement!!!

And Panerai will never Put this in there watches.
The 318 has COSC with a number.
And that number is also on the movement. (and A COSC movement has always best finishing on a ETA you can get) .
That COSC number is linked on the case back number of the watch.

And Panerai will always used a Incabloc shock system, and not a cheap version you see on this movement.

Cheers,

Bas.nl

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ssansone
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ssansone
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Joined: October 16th, 2011, 7:22 pm

November 6th, 2011, 8:01 pm #19

Absolutely agree: The movement in question is not a Panerai movement. I think it was swapped somehow by someone.
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Rocketman248
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Joined: August 23rd, 2007, 3:52 pm

November 6th, 2011, 8:06 pm #20

Fist question, can you show me other Pam318's with this movement?? (that came from different dealers)

I think they have swap the original movement out of the watch. (you can sell that easy for 1200 euro on Ebay)
And put a Fake (Made in China) ETA in it

This is not a Panerai movement. (And I know it, I have worked 3 years as a watchmaker for Panerai)
There is not even the word Panerai on the movement!!!

And Panerai will never Put this in there watches.
The 318 has COSC with a number.
And that number is also on the movement. (and A COSC movement has always best finishing on a ETA you can get) .
That COSC number is linked on the case back number of the watch.

And Panerai will always used a Incabloc shock system, and not a cheap version you see on this movement.

Cheers,

Bas.nl
http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/t ... +to+emails

Nick DeBrita
Chincoteague Island,VA
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