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PAM 721 “Nazi Kampfschwimmer”

RaulBR18
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RaulBR18
Paneristi
Joined: April 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

December 5th, 2017, 12:46 am #1

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
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gfriedell
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Joined: January 27th, 2005, 3:20 pm

December 5th, 2017, 1:14 am #2

be a Nazi any more than a toothbrush can be a Communist.

A Nazi can use a toothbrush and a Communist can use a watch. The ideology doesn't wear off.

If you happen to think that the reproduction of a watch is a glorification of the ideology of a someone who might have used it, then that may be a consideration for you whether to buy the watch and whether to support the brand. I guess everyone has to make up their own mind where they fall on the issue.



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samen
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samen
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Joined: January 25th, 2005, 9:39 am

December 5th, 2017, 1:55 am #3

A watch is a time-telling instrument...

If you relate an ideology with the watch then it's a belief of your own choice.
We don't discuss conscience but rather a watch passion we shared, in my
humble opinion.

There are tons of watches brands that are worn during war, Seikoshas by Pearl Harbor
Japanese kamikaze bombers, IWC by allied bomber pilots and other novelties as well like
Leica cameras documenting war, Canon, Nikon, mention military shoes, fatigues, even canteen
water bottle. You relate each of them with sentiments and ideologies then we have
ourselves a soap-opera instead.

It's purely subjective rather than objective. I would rather stick with the later.

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Aeromat209
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Joined: May 10th, 2006, 4:49 pm

December 5th, 2017, 2:11 am #4

Either you like the watch or you don't
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RaulBR18
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RaulBR18
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

December 5th, 2017, 5:11 am #5

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
Why would you choose something related to the Nazi to be own or reproduced?
We stayed 70 years without it, why bring it back?
I’m sure your design department can’t be that desperate.
The toothbrush company would never reproduce one, if that was the one famous for beeing used by the Nazis.
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BIGPOCKETS
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BIGPOCKETS
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 1:35 pm

December 5th, 2017, 6:34 am #6

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
..HUGO BOSS made uniform for the Nazi & is still is one of the world's most well known & revered fashion brands brands....Hugo Boss himself designed the uniform for the Hitler Youth...so do you go & burn all your BOSS ties, suits etc.?
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BIGPOCKETS
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BIGPOCKETS
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 1:35 pm

December 5th, 2017, 6:34 am #7

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
...don't think you can "assign" an ideology to objects....HUGO BOSS made uniform for the Nazi & is still is one of the world's most well known & revered fashion brands brands....Hugo Boss himself designed the uniform for the Hitler Youth...so do you go & burn all your BOSS ties, suits etc.?
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RaulBR18
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RaulBR18
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

December 5th, 2017, 6:54 am #8

If Hugo Boss reproduces the same uniform and you find it beautiful, would you buy it?
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StratosZ4
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StratosZ4
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 6:41 am

December 5th, 2017, 8:39 am #9

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
Ok, there are some photos showing German soldiers wearing these watches.
So what?
Were the watches responsible for the actions of the soldiers?
Did the watches cause the pain?

And someone mentioned that their uniforms were styled by Boss.
And we have seen photos of them using Mercedes and VW cars.

And then there is Castro and Che photos wearing Rolex watches.

What I am saying...
If we want to correlate objects with certain beliefs, characters, attitude etc., then we better start producing our own cars, watches and clothes.
Once a Paneristi, always a Paneristi
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RaulBR18
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RaulBR18
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

December 5th, 2017, 10:13 am #10

Reproduce the piece?
Simple.
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Viper-FFM
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Viper-FFM
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Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 9:53 pm

December 5th, 2017, 10:58 am #11

be a Nazi any more than a toothbrush can be a Communist.

A Nazi can use a toothbrush and a Communist can use a watch. The ideology doesn't wear off.

If you happen to think that the reproduction of a watch is a glorification of the ideology of a someone who might have used it, then that may be a consideration for you whether to buy the watch and whether to support the brand. I guess everyone has to make up their own mind where they fall on the issue.


The difference between Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, IWC and all other companies that made products for the Nazis is that this exact model most probably was built only because the Nazis threatened Sign. Panerai and his family to do this.
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Micha-K-48
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Micha-K-48
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Joined: May 27th, 2004, 9:37 am

December 5th, 2017, 11:03 am #12

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
with Germany. And Panerai produced a lot thing for the italian Navy: watches, ... which where used by italian frogman in the second world war.

So there is not only one watch or dial.
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Watchman_PAM
New User
Joined: December 5th, 2017, 11:01 am

December 5th, 2017, 11:33 am #13

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
I can understand that the history of the original 721 can be seens as bad.

However, the same is true for all other PAMs during the time of the 30s and 40s.

When Panerai was building their watches for the italian military, Italy was a fascisit state, run by the Duce, the Italien "Führer". Both Italy and Germany were closest allies and friends, both the Duce and AH where buddies and the Duce was seen as a kind of mentor for AH for a long time.
And both were fighting on the same side during WW2 (until the facist Italy started to collapse).

So, all of the PAMs of the 30s and 40s share this history when they were used for military operations, so where do you draw the line?




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StratosZ4
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StratosZ4
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 6:41 am

December 5th, 2017, 12:54 pm #14

Reproduce the piece?
Simple.
The complaints of all non-Paneristi for Panerai watches is that all the references look alike.

Is a sterile dial so bad for you?
There may have leaked some photos.
Why do you insist on this?
Do you believe that Panerai recreated this on purpose to make some connection with the past and the WWII?
I believe it was bad timing.

It is just a watch.
Once a Paneristi, always a Paneristi
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fullcourt1
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Joined: July 16th, 2010, 9:02 pm

December 5th, 2017, 12:57 pm #15

Who would buy a Nazi watch? Not Me!!
I’m sure Panerai didn’t support or provided timepieces to the Nazis.
But why reproduce the very specific one used by them?
if you don’t like it or the ‘history’....

don’t
buy
it....

dp
just living the dream
chicago, usa
more than just a watch
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RossRoss1
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RossRoss1
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Joined: February 26th, 2009, 3:27 pm

December 5th, 2017, 1:02 pm #16

nt
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jhb24
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jhb24
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Joined: July 16th, 2010, 7:36 pm

December 5th, 2017, 1:24 pm #17

if you don’t like it or the ‘history’....

don’t
buy
it....
+1
JB in Shaker
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RaulBR18
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RaulBR18
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Joined: April 1st, 2015, 2:29 pm

December 5th, 2017, 1:52 pm #18

+1 not buying a 721
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FLS2K
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FLS2K
Paneristi
Joined: August 9th, 2005, 7:57 pm

December 5th, 2017, 3:26 pm #19

Glad you cleared the air on your position. 🤣 nt
FLS2K is Beef
Beef is FLS2K
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Cr4ig
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Cr4ig
Paneristi
Joined: September 16th, 2011, 10:25 pm

December 5th, 2017, 4:39 pm #20

be a Nazi any more than a toothbrush can be a Communist.

A Nazi can use a toothbrush and a Communist can use a watch. The ideology doesn't wear off.

If you happen to think that the reproduction of a watch is a glorification of the ideology of a someone who might have used it, then that may be a consideration for you whether to buy the watch and whether to support the brand. I guess everyone has to make up their own mind where they fall on the issue.


I do admit, I am personally offended when people pull this crap out of the bag, despite its lack of merit. I have to wonder about their motivations.

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