Pam 21; is this a new Vintage?

Pam 21; is this a new Vintage?

peace10
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peace10
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Joined: March 25th, 2005, 8:43 am

December 29th, 2011, 8:38 pm #1

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
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HammerHammer
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 11:39 pm

December 30th, 2011, 12:41 am #2

Loved the price back in 2001 even more

Albeit I'm not as big fan of rad's I prefer the lum's , but the weight and mvt plus dial and DNA is hard to argue that it's not the best of the modern era

Also I would be pressed to not consider the 203 the best (ANG freak I am)

Then the 300 might be the best re- edition ever done on many levels

Its so close I don't know which of the above would be #1 for me ??

3 way tie !!!!! Lolololol

Great images amigo ,, millie GRAZIE

.




So much MORE than just a Watch

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP


Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer

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1watch
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1watch
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Joined: March 21st, 2005, 5:29 am

December 30th, 2011, 12:56 am #3

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
Thanks for sharing them, as I do like Rads quite a bit and own a 232. While I'm certainly far from a Panerai expert, as watch collector of both vintage and modern timepieces, I don't think this qualifies as a "true" vintage piece. While it is beautiful and has a vintage movement, it is not from the original era of Panerai pre-'90's when the company was basically re-born as a modern company. Obviously it's desirable and collectible in it's own right
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rorrickj34
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Joined: December 20th, 2006, 6:06 pm

December 30th, 2011, 1:58 am #4

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
As it was in the works PRIOR to Richemont's acquisition of OP(or so I have been told)......no T swiss T on the dial, no letter before the millesimation, tritium dial and hands......and IMO, the BEST modern Panerai to date...HANDS DOWN!! The best part is that these ere sitting on the shelves of AD's....they couldn't give them away.....give me a Delaurian with a flux capacitor and set it to ca1997...LOL

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Asimut
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Asimut
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 6:04 am

December 30th, 2011, 5:44 am #5

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
I have had a love-hate relationship with the 21 over the years and I think the thing that bothered me the most was the platinum case, although I fully understand it. Besides that, watch has everything you would dream of. Its the first Vendome SE (but started off already in pre-V times), tritium, 618 movement, base, vintage font,,,,,,,,,

Thanks for the nice Luciano pics, I hope you can share more of is work here

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~



<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/ ... d.jpg"></a>
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1watch
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Joined: March 21st, 2005, 5:29 am

December 30th, 2011, 6:23 am #6

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
I would guess that they were all stainless steel due to intended use, but do not know the history as deep as many here. If I am correct, then I don't quite understand making these watches out of precious metal even for SE's since it would be inconsistent with historical reference and really still seems a bit much for a watch of this presence.
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tomSG
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tomSG
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Joined: November 18th, 2010, 3:28 am

December 30th, 2011, 7:03 am #7

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
I'm sorry, but I think I cannot be gentle about this, because "new vintage" contains the word vintage.

For me, the 21 does not deserve to be considered vintage for a number of reasons:

First and foremost, the exciting thing about a Vintage Panerai is that it will most likely have seen action. In case of the engraved Kampfschwimmer ones the "action" issue is almost a certainty. This gives the Vintage Panerais a flair that is hard to resist. It tells an actual story and each story is different. Think of Graham's or now Gush's 3646. The 21 is just a modern watch from that point of view. No 'storia', no history.

Then there are the gold plated hands, shaped like Angelus hands. Sorry, but for me a 3646 has to have the original blued steel hands. Period. It's what always bugged me about the 232 as well. They make the 249 so incredibly pretty.

The case ain't exactly a close match to the original 3646 either. It looks blobby and plump in comparison. Same goes of course for the 232 and 249. This is more of a nitpicking issue.

Even the movement is un-3646. Incabloc, balance cock with +/-, etc ...

The platinum case is for what again?

Finally, 3646 are available, so what do we need the 21 for?

I know, here's the hardliner once again.

Still, I only think that way about the 21. I love the 203, for it is so much closer to the original piece, if we forgive the short hands. The 300 and 341 are amazing replicas, nearly as true to the original vintage piece as possible. I was never really interested in hunting for a 21, and Hammer will know better than me if there are a lot of vintage collectors who also own a 21. I don't personally know one, unless Eng has a 21 and I am unaware of it.

I believe PAM 21 and vintage don't really mix well, which does not mean that this watch ain't a milestone and a very desirable piece. It's got to be, considering it's current market price.
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Asimut
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Asimut
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 6:04 am

December 30th, 2011, 9:21 am #8

I would guess that they were all stainless steel due to intended use, but do not know the history as deep as many here. If I am correct, then I don't quite understand making these watches out of precious metal even for SE's since it would be inconsistent with historical reference and really still seems a bit much for a watch of this presence.
of course they were all steel (military). Even pre-Vendome watches (not PAMs, the term was only Vendome) had no precious metal (with the exception of the PVD-gold logo Sly made for the Governator, which is not really precious metal but at least looks like it,,,). I think the logic of making homage pieces is not copying the exact piece such as in a replica, but rather using the DNA to create something similar, yet different. It's easy to make an exact copy, but to make something which has roots and still looks and feels harmonious is quite difficult. Panerai succeeded IMHO in models like the 21, 24, 203, 372 and many more.





Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~



<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/ ... d.jpg"></a>
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Asimut
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Asimut
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 6:04 am

December 30th, 2011, 9:29 am #9

I'm sorry, but I think I cannot be gentle about this, because "new vintage" contains the word vintage.

For me, the 21 does not deserve to be considered vintage for a number of reasons:

First and foremost, the exciting thing about a Vintage Panerai is that it will most likely have seen action. In case of the engraved Kampfschwimmer ones the "action" issue is almost a certainty. This gives the Vintage Panerais a flair that is hard to resist. It tells an actual story and each story is different. Think of Graham's or now Gush's 3646. The 21 is just a modern watch from that point of view. No 'storia', no history.

Then there are the gold plated hands, shaped like Angelus hands. Sorry, but for me a 3646 has to have the original blued steel hands. Period. It's what always bugged me about the 232 as well. They make the 249 so incredibly pretty.

The case ain't exactly a close match to the original 3646 either. It looks blobby and plump in comparison. Same goes of course for the 232 and 249. This is more of a nitpicking issue.

Even the movement is un-3646. Incabloc, balance cock with +/-, etc ...

The platinum case is for what again?

Finally, 3646 are available, so what do we need the 21 for?

I know, here's the hardliner once again.

Still, I only think that way about the 21. I love the 203, for it is so much closer to the original piece, if we forgive the short hands. The 300 and 341 are amazing replicas, nearly as true to the original vintage piece as possible. I was never really interested in hunting for a 21, and Hammer will know better than me if there are a lot of vintage collectors who also own a 21. I don't personally know one, unless Eng has a 21 and I am unaware of it.

I believe PAM 21 and vintage don't really mix well, which does not mean that this watch ain't a milestone and a very desirable piece. It's got to be, considering it's current market price.
I think the 'homage' pieces have a rightful place and I for one, would rather have Panerai not make replicas like the 341 and the 300 (wonderful watches, don't get me wrong). If you want statistics, I cannot speak for all 60 pieces of 21s, but surely most of the owners I know are vintage collectors (come to think of it, I know only 2 who are not,,,,lol,,,,and if I am not mistaken, the 21 was the first Panerai Eng ever bought).

HAGWE

Asi

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~



<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/ ... d.jpg"></a>
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Gu5h
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Gu5h
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Joined: January 25th, 2009, 1:15 pm

December 30th, 2011, 9:58 am #10

Loved the price back in 2001 even more

Albeit I'm not as big fan of rad's I prefer the lum's , but the weight and mvt plus dial and DNA is hard to argue that it's not the best of the modern era

Also I would be pressed to not consider the 203 the best (ANG freak I am)

Then the 300 might be the best re- edition ever done on many levels

Its so close I don't know which of the above would be #1 for me ??

3 way tie !!!!! Lolololol

Great images amigo ,, millie GRAZIE

.




So much MORE than just a Watch

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP


Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer

with H man here, although I hate to do so : ))

Personally I have always loved the 21 and would like it in th collection but alas at today's prices it just seems outta reach!

203 is the favourite and the 300 is just stunning!



GUSH
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Gu5h
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Gu5h
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Joined: January 25th, 2009, 1:15 pm

December 30th, 2011, 10:04 am #11

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
Modern use of materials and proportions with some classic details and the vintage movement.

A fantastic piece and the first SE under new management - wow!!




GUSH
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jimmy6668
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Joined: November 16th, 2008, 2:40 pm

December 30th, 2011, 10:10 am #12

I think the 'homage' pieces have a rightful place and I for one, would rather have Panerai not make replicas like the 341 and the 300 (wonderful watches, don't get me wrong). If you want statistics, I cannot speak for all 60 pieces of 21s, but surely most of the owners I know are vintage collectors (come to think of it, I know only 2 who are not,,,,lol,,,,and if I am not mistaken, the 21 was the first Panerai Eng ever bought).

HAGWE

Asi

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~



<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/ ... d.jpg"></a>
the 21 was Eng's first Panerai.

You need to get him to tell you the story about how he got it.

The time he spent in the air! :-p

Happy New Year m8.



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HammerHammer
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 11:39 pm

December 30th, 2011, 11:57 am #13

I think the 'homage' pieces have a rightful place and I for one, would rather have Panerai not make replicas like the 341 and the 300 (wonderful watches, don't get me wrong). If you want statistics, I cannot speak for all 60 pieces of 21s, but surely most of the owners I know are vintage collectors (come to think of it, I know only 2 who are not,,,,lol,,,,and if I am not mistaken, the 21 was the first Panerai Eng ever bought).

HAGWE

Asi

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~



<a href="http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/ ... d.jpg"></a>
.




So much MORE than just a Watch

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP


Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer

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HammerHammer
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 11:39 pm

December 30th, 2011, 11:58 am #14

the 21 was Eng's first Panerai.

You need to get him to tell you the story about how he got it.

The time he spent in the air! :-p

Happy New Year m8.



.




So much MORE than just a Watch

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP


Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer

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engtay
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engtay
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Joined: February 8th, 2008, 5:02 pm

December 30th, 2011, 3:04 pm #15

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
I agree that this should not be referred to as "vintage", but rather I think that Gush's description of "modern classic" is a better fit. Perhaps in 50 years time we can refer to it as true vintage As we know, there was no platinum used in vintage pieces, but I have to say, I love the weight of this particular piece. I know it's not just the platinum that gives it it's weight, but it's a big plus for me personally. And of course, there is the Rolex movement Nice! If you look at my paintings, you will see my people all have weight - lots of substance That's what I like about this piece - substance.

As for the story Jimmy is referring to...that's for another day

Happy New Year guys!
Eng
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clifW
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clifW
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Joined: January 25th, 2005, 7:19 pm

December 30th, 2011, 4:21 pm #16

but I do share the notion that prices for them have gotten ahead of themselves vs. its father the 3646. It is a true treasure though by a company in its transitional stage from PreV to Vendome, truly a neat bit of kit in its complete form

________________________
Cliffy
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gensiulia
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gensiulia
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Joined: December 16th, 2011, 10:41 pm

December 30th, 2011, 6:10 pm #17

I think that it is the best Vendome watch, what do you think about?







The pictures come from Luciano for an Italian magazine OM
-
chris, italy.
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rorrickj34
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Joined: December 20th, 2006, 6:06 pm

December 30th, 2011, 7:33 pm #18

I'm sorry, but I think I cannot be gentle about this, because "new vintage" contains the word vintage.

For me, the 21 does not deserve to be considered vintage for a number of reasons:

First and foremost, the exciting thing about a Vintage Panerai is that it will most likely have seen action. In case of the engraved Kampfschwimmer ones the "action" issue is almost a certainty. This gives the Vintage Panerais a flair that is hard to resist. It tells an actual story and each story is different. Think of Graham's or now Gush's 3646. The 21 is just a modern watch from that point of view. No 'storia', no history.

Then there are the gold plated hands, shaped like Angelus hands. Sorry, but for me a 3646 has to have the original blued steel hands. Period. It's what always bugged me about the 232 as well. They make the 249 so incredibly pretty.

The case ain't exactly a close match to the original 3646 either. It looks blobby and plump in comparison. Same goes of course for the 232 and 249. This is more of a nitpicking issue.

Even the movement is un-3646. Incabloc, balance cock with +/-, etc ...

The platinum case is for what again?

Finally, 3646 are available, so what do we need the 21 for?

I know, here's the hardliner once again.

Still, I only think that way about the 21. I love the 203, for it is so much closer to the original piece, if we forgive the short hands. The 300 and 341 are amazing replicas, nearly as true to the original vintage piece as possible. I was never really interested in hunting for a 21, and Hammer will know better than me if there are a lot of vintage collectors who also own a 21. I don't personally know one, unless Eng has a 21 and I am unaware of it.

I believe PAM 21 and vintage don't really mix well, which does not mean that this watch ain't a milestone and a very desirable piece. It's got to be, considering it's current market price.
who don't want to worry about Provenance. Buying a vintage Panerai is like walking through a mine field, and the 21 takes all that out of the equation. Like every other modern Panerai, there are always going to be subtle design changes that make it different from the original Vintage watch. Would you really want OP to re-issue an EXACT replica of a Vintage warhorse??? I wouldn't, and I'm sure the vintage owners agree.

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marcellopisani
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Joined: January 28th, 2005, 9:45 am

December 30th, 2011, 10:25 pm #19


-
chris, italy.
you must be brave to buy this model ??? LLOOLLLLL
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gensiulia
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gensiulia
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Joined: December 16th, 2011, 10:41 pm

December 30th, 2011, 11:00 pm #20

...to open the wallet and stick the hand inside
btw i mean the 618 calibre, and i know that u know, my doriano m8.


chris. italy.
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