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duecavalli710
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Joined: October 16th, 2010, 11:36 pm

February 11th, 2012, 5:30 am #1

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
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implantdoc
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implantdoc
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Joined: August 7th, 2011, 9:28 pm

February 11th, 2012, 6:03 am #2

I think it's great! The more sources for Pam's the better...btw, do they offer discounts?
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subtribe
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subtribe
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Joined: September 27th, 2009, 6:58 am

February 11th, 2012, 6:45 am #3

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
Orange County, California. Forgot which model though.
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rapers
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rapers
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Joined: January 27th, 2005, 2:10 pm

February 11th, 2012, 9:08 am #4

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
very interested to know how many they've sold. Not your usual AD, I agree.
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jacksonian71
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Joined: July 7th, 2010, 2:47 am

February 11th, 2012, 12:27 pm #5

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
This has come up many times. Costco is not an AD. Costco is so big that they just buy up whatever they can and sell it. Somehow Panerai get in there sometimes. They probably bought them from some inventory liquidation.. My guess is that you get a Costco warranty on it, not an OP warranty. And I'm not sure what a Costco warranty gets you with mechanical watches. Probably nothing.

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kevin5
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kevin5
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Joined: January 16th, 2007, 7:22 pm

February 11th, 2012, 12:49 pm #6

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
and they would never have more than 2. What's happens is when an AD goes out of business a liquidation company buys up all the left over stock for cheap then acts as a distributor. Costco isn't getting their pams straight from richemont, and they don't give warranties on those watches. It's not like you can walk in and if you don't see the model you're looking for you can just have them order it for you. Sure this is annoying but would be tough to police because as I said a Costco would never have more than 1-2 pams at a time and most stores have none. Richemont could take legal action if they wanted but let's say out of all the Costcos in th USA they have 15-20 pams for sale would that really be worth it? Maybe it would, and maybe eventually they will, but it seems like a small issue at the moment, it's not like they're competing with the local AD or boutique with 1 watch.

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ManCityFan
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ManCityFan
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Joined: January 31st, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 11th, 2012, 3:02 pm #7

Google "First Sale Doctrine" and you'll see why.
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kftman
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kftman
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Joined: June 7th, 2004, 10:25 pm

February 11th, 2012, 3:50 pm #8

See Beltronics v. Midwest Inventory Distribution, for example. I'm sure there are others.

First Sale Doctrine is a limitation to copyright (to protect creators of IP), rather than trademark, as I recall.



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ManCityFan
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ManCityFan
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Joined: January 31st, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 11th, 2012, 4:48 pm #9

Beltronics created a limitation but did not destroy the doctrine altogether. Careful disclosure is the key. Costco knows what it's doing and Richemont would be foolish to challenge on such shaky grounds.
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AJCanada
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AJCanada
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Joined: August 8th, 2007, 10:15 pm

February 11th, 2012, 5:02 pm #10

This has come up many times. Costco is not an AD. Costco is so big that they just buy up whatever they can and sell it. Somehow Panerai get in there sometimes. They probably bought them from some inventory liquidation.. My guess is that you get a Costco warranty on it, not an OP warranty. And I'm not sure what a Costco warranty gets you with mechanical watches. Probably nothing.

Better than any watch company will give you.
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jacksonian71
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Joined: July 7th, 2010, 2:47 am

February 11th, 2012, 5:26 pm #11

Have you had personal experience with a Panerai and Costco warranty? Who performed the service work? If they offered a replacement, what if they don't have that model anymore (since they're just buying close out inventory)? What if it's an in-house movement? No one else will be able to service it.

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kftman
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kftman
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Joined: June 7th, 2004, 10:25 pm

February 11th, 2012, 7:25 pm #12

Beltronics created a limitation but did not destroy the doctrine altogether. Careful disclosure is the key. Costco knows what it's doing and Richemont would be foolish to challenge on such shaky grounds.
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ManCityFan
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ManCityFan
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Joined: January 31st, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 11th, 2012, 8:28 pm #13

I take it you're not an atty. Even if what you said were true, it would still be pretty stupid to litigate against a goliath like Costco (1) over a few dozen (hundred?) genuine watches sold each year and (2) when your case hinges on a narrow exception to a longstanding principle of IP law. Counterfeiting is a FAR bigger problem for the watch industry than the gray market (in which Costco is a relatively small player.)
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latoyii
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latoyii
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Joined: May 28th, 2011, 12:38 am

February 11th, 2012, 9:17 pm #14

It seems a Costco in NY is selling Panerai. What are your thoughts?
I cannot imagine a resource tat can be much more "IM"personal than CostCo. I'd rather not. I think it prostitutes the brand. Just my opinion. Cheers!--lt

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kftman
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kftman
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Joined: June 7th, 2004, 10:25 pm

February 11th, 2012, 9:40 pm #15

I take it you're not an atty. Even if what you said were true, it would still be pretty stupid to litigate against a goliath like Costco (1) over a few dozen (hundred?) genuine watches sold each year and (2) when your case hinges on a narrow exception to a longstanding principle of IP law. Counterfeiting is a FAR bigger problem for the watch industry than the gray market (in which Costco is a relatively small player.)
That is a bit different than your first assertion, which was that Richemont "would have no legal recourse." I agree that Richemont may choose not to pursue Costco. And your assumption about me is probably less accurate than my assumption that you aren't an IP lawyer. Before you hang your hat on first sale, you might want to check out Costco v Omega, in which the supremes deadlocked (Kagan recusal) and let stand the Ninth Circuit holding that first sale doctrine only applies to copyrighted items that are made and distributed in the United States.

Don't know the facts about how and where Costco sources it's Panerais, but it was grey market importing Omegas. No more.

I no longer practice, but had a pretty decent career at Rogers & Wells (now Clifford Chance), then Sheppard Mullin. It is more fun to employ lawyers than be one. At least in my experience...

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ManCityFan
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ManCityFan
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Joined: January 31st, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 11th, 2012, 10:41 pm #16

I'm sorry for assuming. Your first post on this thread did not sound like an atty's: "First Sale Doctrine is a limitation to copyright (to protect creators of IP), rather than trademark, as I recall." As you've just learned, TM is a form of IP (and first sale does apply).

The omega case addressed a different issue, but it's not worth arguing about. I wouldn't want you to waste your whole weekend on Google. Peace!

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AJCanada
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AJCanada
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Joined: August 8th, 2007, 10:15 pm

February 12th, 2012, 1:01 pm #17

Have you had personal experience with a Panerai and Costco warranty? Who performed the service work? If they offered a replacement, what if they don't have that model anymore (since they're just buying close out inventory)? What if it's an in-house movement? No one else will be able to service it.

There's really no need for me to send my watch in for service.

However Costco stand behind everything they sell. I have zero doubts that they would somehow make it right. Grey dealers often have their own warranty policy, and most good ones stand behind the watches they sell. I really can't understand why people get so upset with watches being sold at Costco and somehow try to put them down as a company for it - similar reactions when Rolex fans find out you can buy a Rolex at Costco. Strange reaction IMO, but to each his own I guess.

Cheers, Al

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jacksonian71
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Joined: July 7th, 2010, 2:47 am

February 12th, 2012, 2:45 pm #18

I'm not one of those people who's upset that Costco has a Pam for sale. I simply questioned your reply that their warranty would be better than a watch company. I could easily see them honoring the warranty the way they do with some other things by saying, "Oh, here, we'll just give you a brand new one" because they can't send it to OP for service. But what if it's a model they don't carry anymore?

So 2 different issues: Costco snobbery vs actual details of warranty they offer.

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AJCanada
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AJCanada
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Joined: August 8th, 2007, 10:15 pm

February 13th, 2012, 1:04 pm #19

That makes no sense to me. Anyone can send a watch in for service if they are paying for it, which is what I suspect Costco would do.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.

Cheers, Al
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jacksonian71
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Joined: July 7th, 2010, 2:47 am

February 13th, 2012, 1:26 pm #20

I'm pretty sure that Panerai would not service a watch that was not purchased at an authorized dealer. Costco is not an authorized dealer. Costco may want to offer their own warranty, which is fine, but that's exactly the issue that I'm bringing up. In my experience with home electronics with Costco, when they are selling something that they are not an authorized dealer for, they just say, "Oh, sure, give us that one back and we'll just give you a new one or if we don't have that we'll give you a refund."

Your statement that "anyone can send a watch in for service if they are paying for it" means what? That Costco would send the watch in to Panerai for service for you? And Costco would eat the cost of the repair since the watch wouldn't be serviced under the OP warranty because Costco isn't an AD? I actually don't think OP would even agree to work on a watch that was sent in by an unauthorized dealer.

I'm not trying to argue or disagree with you. I'm just curious as to what the outcome would actually be. I know that Costco has one of the most generous/liberal warranty/return policies anywhere, but a specialty item like this seems like it could present a problem when it came to service or warranty work by the manufacturer. I think Costco would simply offer you a full refund (which is awesome), but it wouldn't help you if you really loved that watch and wanted to keep it. I don't see Costco searching to find a watchmaker who could repair your watch. And if it was a newer in-house movement there'd be no way anyone would.

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