Help with this PreA4

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Help with this PreA4

LuminorLovin
Paneristi
Joined: July 7th, 2009, 3:16 am

August 29th, 2017, 6:57 am #1

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
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Viper-FFM
Paneristi
Viper-FFM
Paneristi
Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 9:53 pm

August 29th, 2017, 10:32 am #2

Dial is from a 5218.

As the serial doesnt include the A, it is a PreA-A version. It COULD be that left over dials from the 5218 where used within the new model. Same applied to B Series T-Dials. However there's no way to proof it 100%.
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Pam009T
Paneristi
Pam009T
Paneristi
Joined: October 28th, 2013, 4:27 pm

August 29th, 2017, 11:48 am #3

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
It isn't a Pre-V dial, the typo is like Vendôme models (pre-V have a serif typo and a specific R), but none T-SWISS-T strange, fake dial?.
Is-it a ETA 6497-2 Pre-A movement with large "côtes de Genèves" and "Officine Panerai Firenze" Engraving?
Let us know.
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

August 29th, 2017, 6:08 pm #4

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
Firstly ......dial /caseback look okay to my eye ....with the obvious exception of the lack of the T HYPHEN T under the six ....but ......I have seen a few Pre-A's where the the white painted writing of the T HYPHEN T has literally started to de-bond and fall off and you could see bits of white paint floating around in the dial .......remember this was relatively early days for OP and mistakes happened .

Rather than let OP change the dial for ,say , an Luminova dial .....a collector MAY have asked a watchmaker to remove all the faulty White painted letters so it didn't cause any potential damage to the watch dial /mvt and looked overall much neater .

The more cynical amongst us might also suggest that the writing under the six has been removed to try and pass the watch off as the arguably more covetable Pre -V two zero three A ?

All the above is just my humble opinion having gone through the murky tunnel of collecting Pre A's and V's about ten -fifteen years ago

I hope you get to the bottom of it to give you some peace of mind



Last edited by covactanks on August 29th, 2017, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LuminorLovin
Paneristi
Joined: July 7th, 2009, 3:16 am

August 29th, 2017, 7:06 pm #5

Dial is from a 5218.

As the serial doesnt include the A, it is a PreA-A version. It COULD be that left over dials from the 5218 where used within the new model. Same applied to B Series T-Dials. However there's no way to proof it 100%.
Nt.
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LuminorLovin
Paneristi
Joined: July 7th, 2009, 3:16 am

August 29th, 2017, 7:11 pm #6

It isn't a Pre-V dial, the typo is like Vendôme models (pre-V have a serif typo and a specific R), but none T-SWISS-T strange, fake dial?.
Is-it a ETA 6497-2 Pre-A movement with large "côtes de Genèves" and "Officine Panerai Firenze" Engraving?
Let us know.
Was that, this could be a 5218 dial.

I don't believe that this could be fake.

However, i'll update you, if there's more info on this.
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LuminorLovin
Paneristi
Joined: July 7th, 2009, 3:16 am

August 29th, 2017, 7:23 pm #7

Firstly ......dial /caseback look okay to my eye ....with the obvious exception of the lack of the T HYPHEN T under the six ....but ......I have seen a few Pre-A's where the the white painted writing of the T HYPHEN T has literally started to de-bond and fall off and you could see bits of white paint floating around in the dial .......remember this was relatively early days for OP and mistakes happened .

Rather than let OP change the dial for ,say , an Luminova dial .....a collector MAY have asked a watchmaker to remove all the faulty White painted letters so it didn't cause any potential damage to the watch dial /mvt and looked overall much neater .

The more cynical amongst us might also suggest that the writing under the six has been removed to try and pass the watch off as the arguably more covetable Pre -V two zero three A ?

All the above is just my humble opinion having gone through the murky tunnel of collecting Pre A's and V's about ten -fifteen years ago

I hope you get to the bottom of it to give you some peace of mind


A real head scatcher indeed.

I can find no white particles on the dial.

As someone mentioned, this could very well be a 5218 dial.

I really hope i can find real answers to this puzzling piece.

Cheers mate.
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

August 29th, 2017, 7:37 pm #8

If the watch has been opened up and the lettering has been completely removed and the dial cleaned
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

August 29th, 2017, 7:44 pm #9

....... hard to tell looking from my iPhone ....... but , as someone else mentioned , the font looks to be later than pre v

Take a look at the 'R' in the word PANERAI on a pre v Luminor dial ..... then look at the 'R' on your Pre A

My eyes aren't as good as they used to be but it looks like your 'R' has a curved front leg

The Pre V fonts 'R' has a shorter front leg that is completely straight

Hope that makes sense


Last edited by covactanks on August 29th, 2017, 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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adman7
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adman7
Paneristi
Joined: August 23rd, 2006, 9:31 pm

August 30th, 2017, 2:33 am #10

photos to add to Covac's context . .

Pre-V


Pre-A
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

August 30th, 2017, 5:55 am #11

❗️❗️❗️❗️bOOM ❗️❗️❗️❗️
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TOMMYX1
Paneristi
TOMMYX1
Paneristi
Joined: November 29th, 2009, 9:10 am

August 30th, 2017, 7:11 am #12

Pam 203 Pre V :



My 004 Pre A



Pre a movement




I hope to have been helpful if you need another ask as well
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ChrisMeadsss
Paneristi
Joined: December 27th, 2010, 4:18 am

August 30th, 2017, 12:38 pm #13

Thanks!
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akozlov
Paneristi
akozlov
Paneristi
Joined: January 9th, 2014, 2:58 am

August 30th, 2017, 4:19 pm #14

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
the font is not pre-V, take a closer look on attached pics. in my opinion "U" on pre-V is narrower that on this 4A. Franken?
[/IMG]
[/IMG]
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RUpanerai
Paneristi
Joined: April 10th, 2009, 9:16 pm

August 30th, 2017, 6:55 pm #15

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
Finding out details of the Pre A, Pre V etc was always so fascinating to me.

Thanks for all the info guys!
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pakal
Paneristi
pakal
Paneristi
Joined: April 12th, 2016, 4:10 pm

August 31st, 2017, 2:54 pm #16

I've come across this puzzling PreA4.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

As to my understanding from a post by Maurits Bollen,and i quote "On most pre-A Luminors (or Bases) and Luminor Marinas you will find pre-Vendome style or T-SWISS-T dials (note the hyphens)".

There is None on this PreA4.

Could this be a franken watch? or a replica?

No back story nor confirmation has been found regarding this PreA4, i just know that this is authentic, as was told by the owner.

Can anybody share their thought?


Cheers.
... consistent with the serial number? Excluding the fact that is a pre-v dial (fonts are clearly not matching with pre-v ones), I am very reluctant to think that the t-swiss have fallen off, if not removed on purpose for whatever reason. Time to open the watch and expose the movement.
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

August 31st, 2017, 7:40 pm #17

....where the T-Swiss -T started de - bonding and subsequently falling off in tiny pieces
Iv seen one or two others in a similar state to
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pakal
Paneristi
pakal
Paneristi
Joined: April 12th, 2016, 4:10 pm

August 31st, 2017, 8:22 pm #18

I absolutely believe you that it can de-bond. But I assume that a mark would be clearly visible where the those "caracters" used to be. This dial does not show the original presence of those letters. I don't buy that it's been cleaned. For me they were never there.
P_
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covactanks
Paneristi
Joined: December 21st, 2004, 6:25 pm

September 1st, 2017, 6:20 am #19

Which I would guess meant the paint used was not compatible with the substrate of the dial .... ergo .... there would not be much ( if any ) evidence of it being there in the first place
I don't see any other theory for that dial ?
It's not pre v
It's not a spaghetti 'A ' series dial

It's clearly a pre A dial to my eyes

I agree it would be a good idea to have the case back cracked open to corrolarte the numbers 👍
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LuminorLovin
Paneristi
Joined: July 7th, 2009, 3:16 am

September 1st, 2017, 9:49 am #20

....... hard to tell looking from my iPhone ....... but , as someone else mentioned , the font looks to be later than pre v

Take a look at the 'R' in the word PANERAI on a pre v Luminor dial ..... then look at the 'R' on your Pre A

My eyes aren't as good as they used to be but it looks like your 'R' has a curved front leg

The Pre V fonts 'R' has a shorter front leg that is completely straight

Hope that makes sense

[/IMG]
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