Big Egi question...

Big Egi question...

kcutler
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kcutler
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Joined: August 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

October 3rd, 2009, 8:06 am #1

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
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torromoto
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Joined: March 9th, 2007, 1:42 pm

October 3rd, 2009, 10:48 pm #2

What is Lume?
Lume is the substance that allows the hands to glow in the dark. Lume is short for lumious phosphorescent.

What is phosphorescence? A type of photo luminescence.
What is photoluminescence? (abbreviated as PL) is a process in which a substance absorbs photons (electromagnetic radiation) and then re-radiates photons. The photo luminescence is produced when the electrons in a molecule are stimulated by an outside energy source. Either ultraviolet light ("black light"), biochemical reaction (glow-sticks) or radioactivity. Once the electrons are stimulated they quickly return to their original state by emitting radiation, sometimes in the form of visible light.
So we are interested to discover how our lume coated hands work?

It is suffice to say that the slower time scales are related to "forbidden energy" state transition in quantum mechanics. Simply put, energy absorbed by a substance is slowly released in the form of light.

Watchmakers were on a constant quest to find a substance that allowed time to be displayed in the dark. The problem was initially solved by the chime of a minute repeater or sonnerie, a candle or an open dial. As soldiers of World War One, huddled in dark trenches listening to the roar of the canons , unable to guess the passage of time, the quest to find a glow-in-the dark substance intensified. Watchmakers suddenly remembered Radium, a discovery made at the end of the 19th century. Radium was radioactive and had the property of luminescence. Radium was used in the watch industry for many years, but abandoned in favor of tritium as a result of its high levels of radioactivity; however, too late for hundreds of "Radium Girls in the 1920's". These young girls were employed by US watch companies to paint the Radium and zinc sulphide onto the dials using a small camel haired brush which they pointed with their lips in between paint applications. They had no inkling that this greenish white glow-in-the-dark paint was lethal. Each time they ingested a small amount of radium - an alpha-particle emitter, chemically similar to calcium and thus a bone-seeker, the Radium was accumulating in the bone-marrow and causing bone cancer and other genetic damages.

Tritium, on the other hand is radioactive but in much lower levels than radium, was used until the 1990's. Then came a breakthrough Super-luminova, all the photo luminescence qualities of tritium, but not radioactive and thus less hazardous and more environmental friendly.

There is a distinct difference though. Tritium is permanently stimulated by electrons (betarays) which it emits when it spontaneously transforms into helium. Thus tritium can glow for dozens of years even in total darkness. (see inset) On the other hand Superluminova requires to be stimulated by either violet or ultraviolet light which at first is very bright, but then gradually fades after a few hours in the dark.

As with Super-Luminova the energy emitted by the electrons is stored at quite a stable level, resulting in light being emitted over a several hour period.

So finally..To answer your question..LUMINOR on the dial doesn't mean the luminescent compound used was luminova..They used tritium... They switched to LUMINOVA in the 1990's. As you may have understood by all of the above LUMINOR stands for LIGHT (GLOW)...








Cheers Guillermo
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kcutler
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kcutler
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Joined: August 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

October 3rd, 2009, 11:25 pm #3

More clearly now, though.

My question was more of: I know Egypt demanded Radium, not tritium. Are we saying the 2/56 (?) Big Egi with Luminor written on it had Tritium or was it Radium? Why did they make it with tritium if they knew Egypt wanted Radium? I was wondering if the Marina Militare was going to use these, or if they were prototypes for Egypt.

Here's a pic from the archives


Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
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torromoto
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Joined: March 9th, 2007, 1:42 pm

October 3rd, 2009, 11:50 pm #4

expert (yet) but I am puzzled about your pic as I have this:



so..indeed Big Egiziano was commisioned by the Egyptian army and to my knowledge they were issued with a radiomir dial (as can be seen)..Also the remake by panerai (PAM341) has the wording radiomir on the dial and therefore I am assuming this is correct...and not LUMINOR (wich is tritium)...



Cheers Guillermo
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torromoto
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Joined: March 9th, 2007, 1:42 pm

October 3rd, 2009, 11:58 pm #5

More clearly now, though.

My question was more of: I know Egypt demanded Radium, not tritium. Are we saying the 2/56 (?) Big Egi with Luminor written on it had Tritium or was it Radium? Why did they make it with tritium if they knew Egypt wanted Radium? I was wondering if the Marina Militare was going to use these, or if they were prototypes for Egypt.

Here's a pic from the archives


Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
the pic you are showing can't be correct unless it is a prototype for the Big Egiziano, shown to the Egyptian navy wich was put into production with radiomir as a luminescent paint as requested by the Egyptians...



Cheers Guillermo
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kcutler
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kcutler
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Joined: August 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

October 4th, 2009, 12:06 am #6



Pic from the archives, I believe from a Panerai event, a Boutique opening if I remember correctly. Gotta love Panerai, they always keep us guessing

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
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torromoto
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Joined: March 9th, 2007, 1:42 pm

October 4th, 2009, 12:26 am #7

to the Egyptian navy (known as ) "Big Egiziano" have Rad dials...... As always interesting stuff hahaha.



Cheers Guillermo
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Asimut
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Asimut
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Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 6:04 am

October 4th, 2009, 6:15 am #8

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
and there are a few "Luminor" 2/56s around, always with the 'matt/coated' case type. Perhaps this was a second series not intended for the Egyptian Navy but for other or Italian forces? Never read or heard any explanation for these, but with Panerai - that is not unusual

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~
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VolkerWiegmann
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Joined: January 25th, 2005, 6:20 am

October 4th, 2009, 9:13 am #9

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
...two versions exist.

Radiomir dial with non-coated steel case.
Luminor dial with grey/matte coated steel case (coating like compasses and depth gauges)

Maybe the Luminor version is from a later/2nd run.
Panerai use "perhaps" in their description of the Luminor GPF as well...
(page 96 in their book). Some question marks remain unanswered.


Cheers,
Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
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kcutler
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kcutler
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Joined: August 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

October 4th, 2009, 4:02 pm #10



Thanks guys!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
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wokl77
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wokl77
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Joined: July 27th, 2009, 9:03 am

October 5th, 2009, 5:45 am #11

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
for the lessons and for the beautiful egi-pictures!

Klaus
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pp5120
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pp5120
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Joined: June 25th, 2009, 4:25 am

October 5th, 2009, 4:27 pm #12

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
learn something new everyday...THANKS!

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mirador
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mirador
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Joined: May 29th, 2007, 6:41 am

October 9th, 2009, 10:08 am #13

I've seen pics (vintage watches) with some that had Luminor Panerai, instead of Radiomir Panerai on the dial. Were these prototypes for Egypt, or were they going to be put into use by Italy? I know they specifically requested Radium, and wondered why Panerai would make a Luminor.....?

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
Great post, didn't know there were 2 versions - cheers



(not my photo)

Serva Tempa
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B.7924
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B.7924
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Joined: December 20th, 2006, 7:02 pm

October 9th, 2009, 7:30 pm #14

...two versions exist.

Radiomir dial with non-coated steel case.
Luminor dial with grey/matte coated steel case (coating like compasses and depth gauges)

Maybe the Luminor version is from a later/2nd run.
Panerai use "perhaps" in their description of the Luminor GPF as well...
(page 96 in their book). Some question marks remain unanswered.


Cheers,
Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
Hi Volker

The watch in your book page 269 (GPF 2/56 luminor), we found that one in Israel.
We bought it from a old officer, he got it from the 6 days war with Egypt.
So maybe a second batch, but the where made for Egypt I think

[/IMG]

Cheers,

Bas.nl
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kcutler
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kcutler
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Joined: August 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

October 9th, 2009, 8:55 pm #15

kc

Kevin

Indianapolis, IN
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