A peek inside for all 417 owners .......

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A peek inside for all 417 owners .......

ERSanchez
Paneristi
Joined: June 3rd, 2006, 5:46 pm

October 23rd, 2011, 6:21 pm #1

.... in "case" you have been wondering......



..... you can exhale now!




Cheers!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
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PSY76
Paneristi
PSY76
Paneristi
Joined: February 8th, 2006, 4:23 am

October 23rd, 2011, 6:32 pm #2








_____________________________________________
Let {A,B,C,D, Ect } = strapmakers
Let {a1,b2,c3,d4,Ect } = products strapmakers
Let æ = Accessories Corner
Let ø = Accessories Vendor Market
Strapmakers = all vendors regardless if they sell straps or not

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J-F.
Paneristi
J-F.
Paneristi
Joined: May 9th, 2009, 11:14 am

October 23rd, 2011, 6:43 pm #3

.... in "case" you have been wondering......



..... you can exhale now!




Cheers!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
Who care what is in inside a Panerai if it's not a " manifattura " ??

That seems new !? now poeples are interested by the movement in a Panerai ??? did we care ten years ago ? I think not !? unles we never bought an " expensive " watch with an ETA inside, decorated or not ....

BTW, The Pam 318 carry the OP XIX which has never been used before and after, Panerai has not communicated a lot ( if not ) about this movement, I guess the only difference between it and the OP II is the decoration ... and really ! with a solid caseback who care on the movement ? even more on the 318 which have one of the most beautifull engraved caseback produced by OP ( vith the 82 )
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Bart74
Paneristi
Bart74
Paneristi
Joined: March 15th, 2009, 12:40 pm

October 23rd, 2011, 6:56 pm #4

.... in "case" you have been wondering......



..... you can exhale now!




Cheers!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
I know this might be controversal, if it isn't already.
That's really poor Panerai for that money


...abbiamo tempo !

Saluti
Bartholomeo
...abbiamo tempo !

Saluti
Bartholomeo
<img src="http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k56 ... G0790a.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
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ERSanchez
Paneristi
Joined: June 3rd, 2006, 5:46 pm

October 23rd, 2011, 8:00 pm #5

Who care what is in inside a Panerai if it's not a " manifattura " ??

That seems new !? now poeples are interested by the movement in a Panerai ??? did we care ten years ago ? I think not !? unles we never bought an " expensive " watch with an ETA inside, decorated or not ....

BTW, The Pam 318 carry the OP XIX which has never been used before and after, Panerai has not communicated a lot ( if not ) about this movement, I guess the only difference between it and the OP II is the decoration ... and really ! with a solid caseback who care on the movement ? even more on the 318 which have one of the most beautifull engraved caseback produced by OP ( vith the 82 )
... you don't care what's inside your Panerai?

We have always put some "value" and/or "inerest" in what makes our Panerai's tic.

Rolex, JLC, ETA, In-house ..... ofcourse it matters. Even if just a tiny bit. No, this has never been the brand/forum that talked about movements more than the watch itself, I'm sure the movements are not what attracts most of use here, is what I'm trying to say. BUT, have we ever had the need to worry/discuss/show concern over what's inside our Panerai watch? All of sudden we discover a well admired model has a non-engraved movement in it, and you don't think anyone cares? I know all 318 owners care to some degree. And even those like myself that don't own a 318 care at least in a different way.

Even Panerai themselves has shown some interest in displaying movemetns in certain models. Even if it was "just" an engraved ETA. And some of our preferences for exhibition case backs prove that some of us care more than others.

For me to say I wouldn't have cared if I opened my 390 (or any other watch I have, for that matter) only to find a "blank" movement staring back at me....would be a lie. IMO, Panerai's "brand" has long been past that of the expectation to get away with putting a blank movement in their watches without consideration for the person that plops down $$$$.$$ for the wach. There is a certain "level" of craftsmanship I expect when buying a multi-thousand dollar watch. And a "brand defined" movement is one of them. I'm not asking for much....skip all the decorations, but at least put your name on it. That at least tells me some level of "testing" was done to at least check it's accuracy.

The bigger picture....I for one am willing to turna blind eye. But I sure do hope this isnt the beginning of a trend from Panerai. It is known that along with "in-house" movements come a sense of pride...to be a company that can provide their own movements for their own watches. But that doesn't mean those that can't jump to that "price-range" should have to settle for less.

Benefit of doubt....who knows (at least I don't) the whole story. Maybe it was a fluke? Why one boutique model would have a blank movement and another not, is beyond me. I don't claim to know anything about boutique models, so maybe there is a difference (one thing I do know is I dont know crap about 47mm Subs in titanium )?

I guess I will have to wait and see?

Cheers M8!!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
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J-F.
Paneristi
J-F.
Paneristi
Joined: May 9th, 2009, 11:14 am

October 23rd, 2011, 8:10 pm #6

When I was in some other brands ( Jaeger, Breguet .. ), yes the movement was very important to my eyes as a consumer ...

The day I bought my first Panerai I went to the AD for a very complicated Reverso and gone with a base, a Panerai 02 and trust me I bought the feeling, the comfort and the difference .... Since this time, for me the movement in a Panerai doesen't matter.

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ERSanchez
Paneristi
Joined: June 3rd, 2006, 5:46 pm

October 23rd, 2011, 8:17 pm #7

... you don't care what's inside your Panerai?

We have always put some "value" and/or "inerest" in what makes our Panerai's tic.

Rolex, JLC, ETA, In-house ..... ofcourse it matters. Even if just a tiny bit. No, this has never been the brand/forum that talked about movements more than the watch itself, I'm sure the movements are not what attracts most of use here, is what I'm trying to say. BUT, have we ever had the need to worry/discuss/show concern over what's inside our Panerai watch? All of sudden we discover a well admired model has a non-engraved movement in it, and you don't think anyone cares? I know all 318 owners care to some degree. And even those like myself that don't own a 318 care at least in a different way.

Even Panerai themselves has shown some interest in displaying movemetns in certain models. Even if it was "just" an engraved ETA. And some of our preferences for exhibition case backs prove that some of us care more than others.

For me to say I wouldn't have cared if I opened my 390 (or any other watch I have, for that matter) only to find a "blank" movement staring back at me....would be a lie. IMO, Panerai's "brand" has long been past that of the expectation to get away with putting a blank movement in their watches without consideration for the person that plops down $$$$.$$ for the wach. There is a certain "level" of craftsmanship I expect when buying a multi-thousand dollar watch. And a "brand defined" movement is one of them. I'm not asking for much....skip all the decorations, but at least put your name on it. That at least tells me some level of "testing" was done to at least check it's accuracy.

The bigger picture....I for one am willing to turna blind eye. But I sure do hope this isnt the beginning of a trend from Panerai. It is known that along with "in-house" movements come a sense of pride...to be a company that can provide their own movements for their own watches. But that doesn't mean those that can't jump to that "price-range" should have to settle for less.

Benefit of doubt....who knows (at least I don't) the whole story. Maybe it was a fluke? Why one boutique model would have a blank movement and another not, is beyond me. I don't claim to know anything about boutique models, so maybe there is a difference (one thing I do know is I dont know crap about 47mm Subs in titanium )?

I guess I will have to wait and see?

Cheers M8!!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
.. well, a couple (few) more.

If given the choice, I wonder how many 318 would have paid a "little bit" more to have an engraved movement? Or would have most preferred a "blank" movement at a cheaper price?

If it's only the "Statue of Liberty" caseback edition then why? Was Panerai more concerned about making it affordable than they were in following their own footsteps? I don't understand why they would have chosen that route?

To consider a 4A cost $2500(?) when it was new and it came with a engraved movement says what? I don't know, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Ok, I'm done.

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
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ERSanchez
Paneristi
Joined: June 3rd, 2006, 5:46 pm

October 23rd, 2011, 8:23 pm #8

When I was in some other brands ( Jaeger, Breguet .. ), yes the movement was very important to my eyes as a consumer ...

The day I bought my first Panerai I went to the AD for a very complicated Reverso and gone with a base, a Panerai 02 and trust me I bought the feeling, the comfort and the difference .... Since this time, for me the movement in a Panerai doesen't matter.
... up until now, the movement in my Panerai has never mattered to me. Which only tells me, you don't have to be a "movement collector" to care about discovering a blank movement in any Panerai. It's not that it mattered before, it's just I would have never expected that from them.

Cheers!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
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HammerHammer
Paneristi
Joined: February 27th, 2005, 11:39 pm

October 24th, 2011, 1:11 am #9

Who care what is in inside a Panerai if it's not a " manifattura " ??

That seems new !? now poeples are interested by the movement in a Panerai ??? did we care ten years ago ? I think not !? unles we never bought an " expensive " watch with an ETA inside, decorated or not ....

BTW, The Pam 318 carry the OP XIX which has never been used before and after, Panerai has not communicated a lot ( if not ) about this movement, I guess the only difference between it and the OP II is the decoration ... and really ! with a solid caseback who care on the movement ? even more on the 318 which have one of the most beautifull engraved caseback produced by OP ( vith the 82 )
.




So much MORE than just a Watch

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP


Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer

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Chrisfrombyron
Paneristi
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 9:20 am

October 24th, 2011, 2:07 am #10

.. well, a couple (few) more.

If given the choice, I wonder how many 318 would have paid a "little bit" more to have an engraved movement? Or would have most preferred a "blank" movement at a cheaper price?

If it's only the "Statue of Liberty" caseback edition then why? Was Panerai more concerned about making it affordable than they were in following their own footsteps? I don't understand why they would have chosen that route?

To consider a 4A cost $2500(?) when it was new and it came with a engraved movement says what? I don't know, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Ok, I'm done.

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
Hi Eddie ,
Good question , however , given that
the cost differential between the cheapest
and best finished Unitas wouldn't be much
more than $100 , Panerai should be able
to fit the better movement to ALL models
without any effect on the price at all , given
especially that they seem to routinely
increase prices twice yearly as a matter
of course . It not so much the fact the
movement is ugly , its the incomprehensible
rationale behind what they did , after all , they
are not exactly getting their margins squeezed
by overseas imports , like so many other
areas of manufacturing - .



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davidhockney
Paneristi
Joined: August 24th, 2010, 1:55 pm

October 24th, 2011, 4:37 am #11

.... in "case" you have been wondering......



..... you can exhale now!




Cheers!

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
In light of recent revelations regarding the use of very cheap crap basic movements by Panerai
could we not have a permanent thread on the forum somewhere?

We could have a list of all Panerai models and when you click on them it says

'piece of crap inside' or 'quality Swiss movement'

that way consumers wishing to buy a Panerai will know which models to avoid.
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micah249
Paneristi
micah249
Paneristi
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 6:38 pm

October 24th, 2011, 4:08 pm #12

Are you saying that finish is the difference between "crap" and "quality"?

Your responses make is seem that you're just finding out that many Panerais (maybe even most) have a $100 ETA movement in them... I'm pretty sure the movement in the 318, other than the finish level, is the exact same movement seen in most of Panerai's non-manifatture watches... 249, 232, 417, 360, 127, 217, 111, 112, 000, 005 the list goes on and on.... all the luminor boutique editions... all these watches have the same movement in them... some have nicer finish than others, but it's still the same ETA movement.

If the only yardstick you're using to measure "crap" vs. "quality" is how nice the finish level is... I have a freshly painted Ford Pinto you might be interested in

My point is... there has to be more to "crap" vs. "quality" than just the level of finish, right?

So for the sake of the argument let's assume that , since they're all the same movement more or less, every Panerai with an ETA in it has a "piece of crap" inside, as you put it... I don't personally agree with that assessment, but let's roll with it...

If that's the case then there's no need to see inside people's watches, much less create a thread about it... all you have to know is whether or not the Panerai in question has an ETA in it.. if it does, you would consider it crap, right? The nice thing is that makes your Panerai shopping list very simple: If it isn't from the Maniffature line... it has crap inside, at least according to your judgement.

The thing is not everyone feels that way about the ETA movements found in most Panny's, nor do a lot of people even think about it one way or the other. Panerai, from the very beginning, has never been about high-quality movements. They've been about robust, work-horse watches with simple movements that are easy to service or replace. If movement quality is your main concern then Panerai has traditionally been the wrong brand for you. Now that they offer the Manifatture line you can shop from those. But for a LOT of the rest of us... the old workhorse ETA movements are fine.

Now I do 100% agree that the level of finish, as in zero, on the 318 movement is disappointing, even frustrating when considering that as a sort of LE it was obviously going to land in the hands of people who care more about the brand than the average consumer probably does, so by proxy will be more disappointed and/or angry to discover a movement with apparently no work put into it by Panerai.

But that has nothing to do with the movement being good or bad... it has to do with the level of attention to detail and pride I expect Panerai to take in their watches... I would have hoped Panerai would never release a completely unfinished movement in any of their watches, regardless of price point or what type of movement it is. To me it's just a matter of pride in your product, and that's what bugs me with this whole un-finished movement thing... it shows a lack of pride in their own work that's kind of sad to see... what movement it is should hardly even part of the discussion IMO, or at best a secondary part, especially when it's the same movement that's been found in thousands of other Panerais.

But it's not the end of the world, as Gatsby said, this all feels like a storm in a teacup.... it certainly won't have any effect on my buying decisions in the future... if it were to then the fact that all my current Panerais have the same base ETA movement in them would have long ago stopped me from buying more. It hasn't

BTW this is all offered in the spirit of discussion and enlightenment on the subject, nothing more, I'm not trying to pick a fight here... just trying to better understand your position, and mine for that matter.



________________
Micah



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Rock1979
Paneristi
Rock1979
Paneristi
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 9:05 pm

October 24th, 2011, 8:15 pm #13

.. well, a couple (few) more.

If given the choice, I wonder how many 318 would have paid a "little bit" more to have an engraved movement? Or would have most preferred a "blank" movement at a cheaper price?

If it's only the "Statue of Liberty" caseback edition then why? Was Panerai more concerned about making it affordable than they were in following their own footsteps? I don't understand why they would have chosen that route?

To consider a 4A cost $2500(?) when it was new and it came with a engraved movement says what? I don't know, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Ok, I'm done.

Eddie "Sharkman" Sanchez

"It's all about the patina, Baby!"

P U R A V I D A !




The pleasure of what we enjoy is lost by wanting more ~ fortune cookie
You ask some very good questions. To me, it comes down to a matter of pride. I don't have a 318, but what bothers me about this is that Panerai didn't even put their name on the blank movement. Even if they didn't want to go through the trouble and seemingly insignificant cost of modest engraving on the movement, at least engrave a name and serial number. It just feels dirty to me. Almost like they was some shame associated with it so they didn't bother to have the brand name etched on the movement. I don't know. It just doesn't sit right with me, especially given the price tag and the place where Panerai has positioned itself in the watch market. Just my two cents.

JRock

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kevin5
Paneristi
kevin5
Paneristi
Joined: January 16th, 2007, 7:22 pm

October 25th, 2011, 2:13 am #14

Are you saying that finish is the difference between "crap" and "quality"?

Your responses make is seem that you're just finding out that many Panerais (maybe even most) have a $100 ETA movement in them... I'm pretty sure the movement in the 318, other than the finish level, is the exact same movement seen in most of Panerai's non-manifatture watches... 249, 232, 417, 360, 127, 217, 111, 112, 000, 005 the list goes on and on.... all the luminor boutique editions... all these watches have the same movement in them... some have nicer finish than others, but it's still the same ETA movement.

If the only yardstick you're using to measure "crap" vs. "quality" is how nice the finish level is... I have a freshly painted Ford Pinto you might be interested in

My point is... there has to be more to "crap" vs. "quality" than just the level of finish, right?

So for the sake of the argument let's assume that , since they're all the same movement more or less, every Panerai with an ETA in it has a "piece of crap" inside, as you put it... I don't personally agree with that assessment, but let's roll with it...

If that's the case then there's no need to see inside people's watches, much less create a thread about it... all you have to know is whether or not the Panerai in question has an ETA in it.. if it does, you would consider it crap, right? The nice thing is that makes your Panerai shopping list very simple: If it isn't from the Maniffature line... it has crap inside, at least according to your judgement.

The thing is not everyone feels that way about the ETA movements found in most Panny's, nor do a lot of people even think about it one way or the other. Panerai, from the very beginning, has never been about high-quality movements. They've been about robust, work-horse watches with simple movements that are easy to service or replace. If movement quality is your main concern then Panerai has traditionally been the wrong brand for you. Now that they offer the Manifatture line you can shop from those. But for a LOT of the rest of us... the old workhorse ETA movements are fine.

Now I do 100% agree that the level of finish, as in zero, on the 318 movement is disappointing, even frustrating when considering that as a sort of LE it was obviously going to land in the hands of people who care more about the brand than the average consumer probably does, so by proxy will be more disappointed and/or angry to discover a movement with apparently no work put into it by Panerai.

But that has nothing to do with the movement being good or bad... it has to do with the level of attention to detail and pride I expect Panerai to take in their watches... I would have hoped Panerai would never release a completely unfinished movement in any of their watches, regardless of price point or what type of movement it is. To me it's just a matter of pride in your product, and that's what bugs me with this whole un-finished movement thing... it shows a lack of pride in their own work that's kind of sad to see... what movement it is should hardly even part of the discussion IMO, or at best a secondary part, especially when it's the same movement that's been found in thousands of other Panerais.

But it's not the end of the world, as Gatsby said, this all feels like a storm in a teacup.... it certainly won't have any effect on my buying decisions in the future... if it were to then the fact that all my current Panerais have the same base ETA movement in them would have long ago stopped me from buying more. It hasn't

BTW this is all offered in the spirit of discussion and enlightenment on the subject, nothing more, I'm not trying to pick a fight here... just trying to better understand your position, and mine for that matter.



________________
Micah


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