A few words about real and fake in the vintage Panerai world

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A few words about real and fake in the vintage Panerai world

VolkerWiegmann
Paneristi
Joined: January 25th, 2005, 6:20 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:10 pm #1

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
Last edited by hkgweilo on October 12th, 2011, 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paneristiadmin
Paneristi
Joined: September 27th, 2004, 8:38 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:18 pm #2

....
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matthewsiv
Paneristi
matthewsiv
Paneristi
Joined: September 6th, 2009, 2:51 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:21 pm #3

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
Thank you for telling us ,which is the other site you use?
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J-F.
Paneristi
J-F.
Paneristi
Joined: May 9th, 2009, 11:14 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:22 pm #4

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
As i told you at P-Days i would like to try to own some vintages but these well made " fakes/hommages/frankenwatches " scares me .....

When i think more and more to trade one dozen of modern 47mm for 3 or 4 real Panerai ( real vintages Panerai's ), your post give me more doubts

Luckyly we are starting a new era with you : the pre-V fakes, pre-Volker ... thanks to be an expert and be able to catch them !
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hkgweilo
Paneristi
hkgweilo
Paneristi
Joined: March 3rd, 2006, 5:46 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:25 pm #5

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
I have seen some people try to hide behind copyright/trademark rules, and/or make claims that their actions are just for themselves.

The line between authentic and fake is getting blurrier by the day...

As time passes, some may 'forget' the origins of these 'hommage' watches and they may be offered as the real thing...I hope it never comes to this.

Thanks Volker!
Last edited by hkgweilo on December 6th, 2009, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Asimut
Paneristi
Asimut
Paneristi
Joined: July 3rd, 2004, 6:04 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:26 pm #6

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
I assume many 'projects' were done without 'criminal' intent - that doesn't change a thing - a fake is a fake is a fake.

I just knew this day will come.

Thanks Volker for bringing this to the attention of vintage aficionados and thanks to the admins of this forum for taking a definite stance on this subject.

Cheers and best from the holyland,

~Asi~
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samen
Paneristi
samen
Paneristi
Joined: January 25th, 2005, 9:39 am

December 6th, 2009, 2:38 pm #7

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
To pass a homage as gen is no doubt evil, let alone selling it as one.

Like in vintage Rolex world some expert can try to "database-ly" check the serial numbers, caseback engravings and analyze some physical features. But up to certain extent, as some creative vietnam case or other type of craftsman can very closely replicate them. I see that it is inevitable and always been a risk for grail watches, unfortunately

That's why a reference and expertise on the subject is very very important. Appreciate the effort.

Good looking out and thanks for sharing it, bruder.
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Jpvfx
Paneristi
Jpvfx
Paneristi
Joined: April 8th, 2006, 1:23 pm

December 6th, 2009, 2:46 pm #8

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai

According to an episode of 'The Antique Road-Show' the other week (the famous BBC Antiques show from the Uk) there is a difference between a fake and a forgery!

The valuer was examining a piece of pottery at the time of making the statement, but noted the definition between fake and a forgery. (I actually thought they were one of the same)

A fake, is something that is made from a sum of original parts !

A forgery is something that has been stamp or marked with the intent to mislead someone to believe it is something it is not theres a mouthful.

Its amazing how many fakes and forgery's turn up on that show (general antiques).
Be careful people!

Regards
Jp





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Paul-Belgium
Paneristi
Joined: January 30th, 2005, 7:07 pm

December 6th, 2009, 2:49 pm #9

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
I would be very careful when i would go vintage but its sining more and more to me
Nah i would ask you before

Polleke

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JohnSim
Paneristi
JohnSim
Paneristi
Joined: January 1st, 2005, 8:27 pm

December 6th, 2009, 2:55 pm #10

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
It's sad and as Asi put it.... even if the original intent is honest, which is often the argument.
"Hey, it's just for me, I wont sell it?" Yet they do get sold and into the wrong hands.
It's just a matter of time before we see one on Sotheby's.

Buy a 232, 127, 249, 217... often these hommages end up costing more than one of these watches.


-------------------------
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face - GT

If you can't write your name, you can't ride the bull. - JU

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TruRadiomier
Paneristi
Joined: November 29th, 2008, 10:09 am

December 6th, 2009, 3:02 pm #11

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai


"Silver & gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up & walk."


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Ogiku
Paneristi
Ogiku
Paneristi
Joined: August 30th, 2009, 9:17 pm

December 6th, 2009, 3:03 pm #12

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
[/IMG]
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Chye
Paneristi
Chye
Paneristi
Joined: October 9th, 2006, 7:45 am

December 6th, 2009, 3:12 pm #13

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
.
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hongT
Paneristi
hongT
Paneristi
Joined: June 8th, 2004, 1:04 pm

December 6th, 2009, 3:17 pm #14

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
But the fake vintage is so scary !

Cheers,
HongT

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misterbleu
Paneristi
misterbleu
Paneristi
Joined: January 26th, 2005, 11:47 am

December 6th, 2009, 3:22 pm #15

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
If you see all those well made fake-modern Panerai's these days, a vintage one isn't too hard to make for a professional... especcialy if you know how much they are worth.

Using real parts like real dials will make fakes very hard to identify....

A reliable data-base will be important in the future.

Thx for this interesting post Volker

Regards, John
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Watch8
Paneristi
Watch8
Paneristi
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 5:32 pm

December 6th, 2009, 3:34 pm #16

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
Hope collectors will be more informed and careful when buying these vintage pieces.

Best regards,
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eddieng
Paneristi
eddieng
Paneristi
Joined: July 29th, 2004, 5:01 am

December 6th, 2009, 3:43 pm #17

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
you are a great asset to the Vintage Panerai collecting community
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AurelioS
Paneristi
AurelioS
Paneristi
Joined: January 25th, 2005, 4:15 pm

December 6th, 2009, 4:03 pm #18

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
nt






Peace, love and tuna cans ~
Aurelio




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BillS100
Paneristi
BillS100
Paneristi
Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 5:06 am

December 6th, 2009, 4:41 pm #19

Hello all,

I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)

A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/m ... +-+260720-

Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.

I will repeat what I wrote there:

Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.

I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"

I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.

The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).

I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.

After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.



There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!

To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.

Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.

Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.

Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
Just frightening actually...

Bill



BillS100
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VolkerWiegmann
Paneristi
Joined: January 25th, 2005, 6:20 am

December 6th, 2009, 5:16 pm #20

As i told you at P-Days i would like to try to own some vintages but these well made " fakes/hommages/frankenwatches " scares me .....

When i think more and more to trade one dozen of modern 47mm for 3 or 4 real Panerai ( real vintages Panerai's ), your post give me more doubts

Luckyly we are starting a new era with you : the pre-V fakes, pre-Volker ... thanks to be an expert and be able to catch them !
...I mean the good ones, those who just showed up a few days ago like 3646 #260621, recently auctioned in Paris. Fantastic watch - never seen before. Matching in all details with our database. And the price was quite fair IMO.

More treasure watches will surface in the future, I am sure!
And the more we know, the better we can compare them with other, already existing and documented pieces. Some gaps in our database will be closed, but some will remain.

Cheers
Volker

representin' the DNA of Panerai
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